[quote]blitzkrg wrote:
He has a bachelor?s degree from Yale and a Masters degree from Harvard.
Not too many stupid people come from Yale and Harvard.
He is a Texan.[/quote]
blitzkrg,
GW got into Yale and Harvard because tens of members of the Bush family have attended both institutions. He did not attend them based on merit but because he won the sperm lottery.
GW is not a TEXAN. He was born and raised in New England. His mother is from upstate New York and her family is from Ohio while GW’s family is from NE and NY.
The accent was acquired from living in Texas for a few decades after college.
I have a Jersey accent (unfortunately) when I say certain words after living here for the past 10 years. I am originally from CA.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
deanec wrote:
Goal=Colossus wrote:
…
Every time i hear Reagan’s famous “Bring down the wall” speach, i’m revolted by the abundtant ignorance of the cheering crowd then, and even more revolted by those today who heil Reagan as anything more than a good public speaker.
How old were you during said speech?
His profile says he is a high school student. he was in diapers when Reagan was in office.
Reagan challenging Gorby to tear down the wall was amazing.
[/quote]
The Pope and Afganistan had as much of and effect on the USSR’s failure as Carter and Reagan did.
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
blitzkrg wrote:
He has a bachelor?s degree from Yale and a Masters degree from Harvard.
Not too many stupid people come from Yale and Harvard.
He is a Texan.
blitzkrg,
GW got into Yale and Harvard because tens of members of the Bush family have attended both institutions. He did not attend them based on merit but because he won the sperm lottery.[/quote]
Let’s say that that’s correct. How many people in this country also have “won the sperm lottery” but did not go to Yale or Harvard?
Many!
Now how many of the very “well to do” attended Harvard and Yale and then became Governor?
Not many.
How many were reelected to that position?
Even fewer.
How many of that group became President of the United States?
Very few.
How many of that group became two term Presidents?
Now we’re down to just a handful in history.
Sure President Bush had a great start in life. Much better than you and I. But he did do something with it and he deserves credit for that.
You may not like Bush but your hatred is blinding you to the fact that this guy made a very big success out of his life!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Let’s say that that’s correct. How many people in this country also have “won the sperm lottery” but did not go to Yale or Harvard?
Many!
[/quote]
No, they end up going to Brown, Princeton, Dartmouth and the other ivy league schools in the US.
You are missing one huge point here. If he had not won the “sperm lottery” as Marmadogg said, none of these opportunities would have existed.
Because of the influence of his relatives, he got into Harvard and Yale. Because of the influence of his relatives, he was able to avoid being sent to Vietnam and serve at home in the Texas Air National Guard. Because of the influence of his relatives, he got into politics. Because of the influence of his relatives, he was able to run for Governor. Because of the influence of his relatives, he was able to run for President. Do you really believe that if his name wasn’t Bush that he would have had the same path in life? If you do, you are delusional.
President Bush had a great start in life and he used his family’s name to ride high throughout his entire life. It’s very easy to make something of yourself in life when your family has the money, power and influence to pave the way to make it easy for you.
Normally, I wouldn’t care about some silver-spoon fed, spoiled rich kid. But when that same person has a pattern of using his family name to go through life and then uses his family name to gain access to the keys to the country where I live, I have issues with that. It worries me because it shows a pattern of someone who has no idea what it is like to earn anything. Since you have kids, you know that if they don’t earn something, they don’t have a real appreciation for it. The person that holds the most powerful position in the country has a pattern of not earning anything on his own.
[quote]ALDurr wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Let’s say that that’s correct. How many people in this country also have “won the sperm lottery” but did not go to Yale or Harvard?
Many!
No, they end up going to Brown, Princeton, Dartmouth and the other ivy league schools in the US.[/quote]
And some flunk out…or never attend any top University.
Now how many of the very “well to do” attended Harvard and Yale and then became Governor?
Not many.
How many were reelected to that position?
Even fewer.
How many of that group became President of the United States?
Very few.
How many of that group became two term Presidents?
Now we’re down to just a handful in history.
Sure President Bush had a great start in life. Much better than you and I. But he did do something with it and he deserves credit for that.
You may not like Bush but your hatred is blinding you to the fact that this guy made a very big success out of his life!
Deal with it!
No I have not missed the point. I conceded that point. Yes, he had a great start in life. Reread my post.
But, how many others have a great start and yet do not end up as two term Governor and then two term President.
He took what he had and did even better with it!
If you don’t think he did then how many President Rockefellers, or President DuPonts have we had?
How many Presidents had sons and they never became President?
Why didn’t that happen if it is so easy?
I agree and already addressed this. But again he got no less than all prvileged children get.
How many become two term Presidents?
Here you are wrong. Because of his name recognitionhe had the opportunity to run for Gov.
However it was GW that did the campaigning and it was GW that debated and it was GW that got HIMSELF reelected.
Wrong, if he had been a failure as Gov. of Texas he would have had no chance to run for President.
HE did a good job.
So he had doors open for him because HE did a good job and used his name to originally to run for Governor of Texas.
I can see and appreciate both aspects of what really went on.
You can only see one side of the coin.
Wow…are you just being obstinate or you never really read my post?
If his name was not Bush he would not have had many many doors open for him.
I have conceded that point three times now.
BUT, you fail to see that no matter how many doors open for you because of class and or money you still have to do a decent job in order to keep moving on the success path that GW took.
In other words, as I have already stated: If he did not do what the people thought was a good job in Texas during his first term as Governor he would not have been reelected to his second term as Governor.
And if he did not do a good job in his second term as Gov he would not have had the opportunity to even run for President.
Again, there are plenty of people out there with far more money than the Bush family. And there are still others with a great name recognition. But how many of them do you see rise to become a two term President?
ZERO
How many President Rockefellers were there?
How many President DuPonts?
How many President Carnigies?
How about the sons of Presidents?
Ike had children, none became President.
Roosevelt had “Franklin Jr.” he never became President.
Really…the list is endless.
In fact it is an oddity for the son of a President to become President. It’s only happened twice in history and GW was the only one of the two to win a second term.
Did his father win the second term for him too?
That would be odd since his father was unable to win a second term.
In many ways the son has surpassed the father!
Let me rephrase that just a bit:
It’s easy to continue to on in the class that was handed to you on a silver platter.
It’s NOT easy to climb to the level that GW did. In addition to having a great amount of help from the family name, money etc. (see I admit it). He still had to campaign endless hours, debate his opponents.
And most importantly do a good enough job as Gov and then President to actually get elected to a second term for both offices!
Sorry…he worked and he worked hard for that.
One thing I assure you: If the name Zeb or Aldurr had such a family they would both use it to gain as much as they possibly could!
Don’t let the fact that you did not have what he had make you green with envy.
Hey, I like the rags to riches story better myself. But, I can’t take anything away from Bush because he did not start out life poor.
That is very untrue.
He earned everything that he currently has…including those like you who hate him! But in order to earn that … all he had to so was be born!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
blitzkrg wrote:
He has a bachelor?s degree from Yale and a Masters degree from Harvard.
Not too many stupid people come from Yale and Harvard.
He is a Texan.
blitzkrg,
GW got into Yale and Harvard because tens of members of the Bush family have attended both institutions. He did not attend them based on merit but because he won the sperm lottery.
Let’s say that that’s correct.[/quote]
That is 100% correct. You can look it up. Bush’s grandfather Prescott Bush was also a Yale alum and was a Senator from Connecticut, the home state of Yale University.
Prescott Bush was a trustee of Yale, the first chair of Yale’s Development Board (the folks who raise the money, and Prescott Bush sat on the Yale Corporation for twelve years.
Prescott Bush, like George W. Bush’s father, George H. W, Bush, was a member of Skull and Bones (just like Kerry…they are one-in-the-same).
The first Bush to go to Yale was Bush’s great great grandfather James Bush, who graduated in 1844. In addition to his father, grandfather, and greatgreatgrandfather, Bush was the legacy of no less than twenty-seven other relatives who preceded him at Yale, including five great great uncles. Seven great uncles. Five uncles, and a number of first cousins.
[quote]How many people in this country also have “won the sperm lottery” but did not go to Yale or Harvard?
Many!
Now how many of the very “well to do” attended Harvard and Yale and then became Governor?
Not many.
How many were reelected to that position?
Even fewer.
How many of that group became President of the United States?
Very few.
How many of that group became two term Presidents?
Now we’re down to just a handful in history.
Sure President Bush had a great start in life. Much better than you and I. But he did do something with it and he deserves credit for that.[/quote]
Everything you wrote above is irrelevant to GW’s attending Yale and Harvard.
[quote]You may not like Bush but your hatred is blinding you to the fact that this guy made a very big success out of his life!
Deal with it![/quote]
I actually like GW as a person and a human being very much. He is on the top of my list of people to have dinner with but I would not put him in charge of my company unless he was just a figure head but I might let him drive my car.
FYI - Barbara Pierce’s family is the Percy’s of England.
Nothing but royalty from top to bottom.
I respect people that have to work for a living and those that pull themselves and their families up by the boot straps.
It’s tempting to employ Al Gore’s IQ:SAT ratio of 134:1355 as a formula for estimating Bush’s probable intelligence quotient ? an exercise in fuzzy statistics that predicts a score of 119. If the number sounds familiar, it’s precisely the IQ score attributed to Kennedy, whom Princeton political scientist Fred Greenstein, in “The Presidential Difference,” commended as “a quick study, whose wit was an indication of a subtle mind.”
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
blitzkrg wrote:
He has a bachelor?s degree from Yale and a Masters degree from Harvard.
Not too many stupid people come from Yale and Harvard.
He is a Texan.
blitzkrg,
GW got into Yale and Harvard because tens of members of the Bush family have attended both institutions. He did not attend them based on merit but because he won the sperm lottery.
Let’s say that that’s correct.
That is 100% correct. You can look it up. Bush’s grandfather Prescott Bush was also a Yale alum and was a Senator from Connecticut, the home state of Yale University.
Prescott Bush was a trustee of Yale, the first chair of Yale?s Development Board (the folks who raise the money, and Prescott Bush sat on the Yale Corporation for twelve years.
Prescott Bush, like George W. Bush?s father, George H. W, Bush, was a member of Skull and Bones (just like Kerry…they are one-in-the-same).
The first Bush to go to Yale was Bush?s great great grandfather James Bush, who graduated in 1844. In addition to his father, grandfather, and greatgreatgrandfather, Bush was the legacy of no less than twenty-seven other relatives who preceded him at Yale, including five great great uncles. Seven great uncles. Five uncles, and a number of first cousins.[/quote]
You are beating a dead horse my friend. I agree with this part of your analysis.
But there are many, many “legacy” candidates who gain entrance into the best schools in the nation because they had parents or other relatives who went there.
How many of them become a two term Governor and then a two term President?
[quote]How many people in this country also have “won the sperm lottery” but did not go to Yale or Harvard?
Many!
Now how many of the very “well to do” attended Harvard and Yale and then became Governor?
Not many.
How many were reelected to that position?
Even fewer.
How many of that group became President of the United States?
Very few.
How many of that group became two term Presidents?
Now we’re down to just a handful in history.
Sure President Bush had a great start in life. Much better than you and I. But he did do something with it and he deserves credit for that.
Everything you wrote above is irrelevant to GW’s attending Yale and Harvard.[/quote]
It’s about success not just attending Yale and Harvard.
Someone can get you in, but you have to stay in. I know that you are not going to understand this point but you actually have to show up at your classes and pass.
Just like a famous name can get you “in” as a candidate. But you have to campaign and do the work.
And if you want to get reelected you have to do a job that is acceptable to the voters.
I could not agree more with you. However, just because we respect people who pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, does not mean that we also cannot respect someone who took what was given him and made more out of it.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
A great deal of JeffR style cheerleading.[/quote]
Conceeding a point and then arguing to try to make yourself right is not conceeding a point. You talk about being obstinate and obtuse, you define it. The bottom line is that if his name was NOT Bush, he would not be where he is now, period. Arguing that he earned his way AFTER the barriers were removed for him and the way was paved for him is a load of horseshit and you know it. His family name has bouyed him and saved him more times than you can count. Please don’t try to make him more than what he is, a legacy child.
It’s not envy the fuels my issues with him either. It is this perception that is being fostered that he earned everything on his own. It’s bullshit, plain and simple. Well, that and the fear of him being in charge when he has no clue what it is like to actually earn everything like regular Americans, but he is making policies that affect regular Americans. His disconnet with the reality that regular Americans faces every day is a direct result of his path in life. That is my problem with him. If he didn’t have the power he has, I could care less about him.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
How many of them become a two term Governor and then a two term President?
[/quote]
How many of them had a father who was head of the CIA, Vice President for 2 terms and President for 1 term? Very few to none most likely. Having a father like that opens way more doors than the average legacy child. That is the point I’ve been trying to make. He had opportunities way beyond many others of his wealth. You talk about giving him his just due but you are giving him WAY more than his just due because you are trying to ignore the amount of influence his family holds. You are picking and choosing what you want to see so you can cheerlead.
I would do the same thing, no doubt. However, I would remember HOW I got those things as well. I wouldn’t try to make myself out to have done more than I have done. Would you? From your posts, I doubt it.
Conceeding a point and then arguing to try to make yourself right is not conceeding a point. You talk about being obstinate and obtuse, you define it. The bottom line is that if his name was NOT Bush, he would not be where he is now, period.[/quote]
You cannot tell which point I am conceding and which point I am arguing?
WOW!
I concede that he did indeed trade on his family name. No different than any of us would have.
However, it’s the other part of the fact sheet that you have a problem with.
While he did trade on his name he also worked very hard to get where he is. Why can’t someone do both?
Why are you so black and white? Oh…that’s right he’s a republican…
Hating a guy because he was born into wealth and power is no different than hating someone simply because they are poor.
It makes no sense.
Now go back and reread my posts until they sink in.
Not at all!
Again, many were born into wealth and power. How many become a two term Governor and then a two term President.
All you have to do is name them all and then I will concede that everyone who is born into wealth and power can easialy succeed at the highest levels of politics.
That you cannot name any others PROVES my point!
If it was easy there would be a long long list of these guys…
Heres a flash for you: No one earns EVERYTHING on their own! No one! Not one person!
If you succeed at a very high level as GW has it is not because you did it all by yourself.
He traded on his family name every chance he got. But he also must have done a good job as you cannot get reelected twice to two high elected offices without having succeed in the first term.
Try to grasp the above.
After the first term in Texas his name could have been mud.
“Bush” got him in…But HE kept himself in after that through hard work!
Yes your argument is bullshit plain and simple.
You have no logical basis for this argument other than…
…you hate the guy!
[quote]Well, that and the fear of him being in charge when he has no clue what it is like to actually earn everything like regular Americans, but he is making policies that affect regular Americans. His disconnet with the reality that regular Americans faces every day is a direct result of his path in life. That is my problem with him.
[/quote]
Does it bother you that Kennedy was elected to the Presidency?
How about the other 30 or so Presidents that came from wealth and or power?
The fact is, you don’t like the guy for political reasons just let it go at that.
Can’t do that huh?
Yea…if he was a janitor somewhere I suppose we would not be discussing him. Then you would be attacking whoever the republican President was.
You are not thinking clearly my friend. Politics has poisoned your mind.
[quote]ALDurr wrote:
ZEB wrote:
How many of them become a two term Governor and then a two term President?
How many of them had a father who was head of the CIA, Vice President for 2 terms and President for 1 term? Very few to none most likely. Having a father like that opens way more doors than the average legacy child. That is the point I’ve been trying to make. He had opportunities way beyond many others of his wealth. You talk about giving him his just due but you are giving him WAY more than his just due because you are trying to ignore the amount of influence his family holds. You are picking and choosing what you want to see so you can cheerlead.[/quote]
Not at all!
I am the one who said that he was born into wealth and power and used it to better himself.
However, I go on to say that he worked very hard and must have done a good job as he was reelected to two terms as Governor and then to two terms as President.
The name perhaps gets you the nomination but it does not get you reelected TWICE!
He has accomplished quite a lot in life. While he had a great start he surpassed what his father did!
Forget about Bush, have you surpassed what your father has done yet?
Put the Kool-Aid down and please tell us how you personally know GW and when was the last time you spoke to him or visited with him?
Cordially,
marmadogg
It’s odd that I would be accused of drinking Kool-Aid because I want to give the man his due.
No one can take away what he actually worked for by focusing on what he DIDN’T have to work for.
Think about it you’re a smart guy.
Someday it might just dawn on you…
The only people that agree with you are the right wingnuttery.[/quote]
Gee I think I’ve heard you use that word before…(eye roll).
This means that you have run out of arguments and are now name calling.
I see.
Except when it comes to politics apparently.
[quote]Getting elected to public office has nothing to do with competence because if it did the house and senate would not be able to create so much havoc.
[/quote]
Competence? We are arguing competence? I think you are allowing your political beliefs to taint your assessment of GW the man.
If you are arguing that he is an incompetent President that is another argument.
Try to stay on topic my friend.
I am talking about hard work. And if you have never run for public office then you better think again.
It’s very very hard work to get elected to public office. Especially at the level that GW did.
Do you understand the rigors of a campaign? They are quite a bit more difficult than typing trash on a message board. You actually have to work 12 to 15 hour days. Day in and day out 7 days per week!
No seriously, I give Bush, Clinton all of them a great deal of credit for the sort of perseverence and hard work that it takes to get elected to such a high office.
And not once …BUT TWICE!
Doors opened because his name was Bush-But he still had to work hard. And he kept them open because he did a good job according to the voters of Texas and the US!
Huge amounts of money previously controlled by the Soviet Union precipitating into localisized Ilamic factions profiting from border arms dealing and other similar eandeavors…
The Soviet Union went bankrupt. The collapse of the Soviet Union did not free up their money. Lack of money is why the Soviet Union collapsed.
Militant Islam has existed for hundreds of years.
In the 80s there was allready a huge influx of “illegal” Capitalist business in the Soviet Union, mainly in border republics. Capitalism was allready happening in the USSR.
People were holding these businesses by paying off the party(virtually, they were being taxed) to turn their heads as long as it was localized and not out in the open.
My grandfather controlled a business like this with his own hired workers. We could afford to spend almost $900,000 on renovations to my parents home and owned a car with a paid chaufer.
The whole tragedy was in that there was no utilization of this huge amount of funds and a great deal of the urban public had no clue. When Gorbachev declared a capitalist state the money just dissapeared, there was no infrastructure.
This is where the “freed up” money came from.
…
Militant Islam is funded with middle east oil money not missing Russian Mafia money.
The power vaccuum created by te collapse of the Soviet Union has helped the rise of militant Islam but it existed long before.
You said the Soviet collapse didn’t free up money.
I showed you how it did.
This isn’t missing Mafia money.
The cash that circulated inside the business like those my grandfather ran were to produce and sell common products like cltothing, appliences, houseware. After this type of business was evaporated newly emerging groups from the workers left from these business formed Mafiate groups utilizing the now exposed borders to open a large market selling federal munitions and military tech to militist Islamists that existed before but had very limited access to these munitions.
So now instead of flailing around machetes and the occasional stolen AKs, these militants had access to everything as simple as rocket launchers to light tanks in free exchange.
Militant Islam existed long before the Soviet collapse, but had nowhere near as many munitions before the USSR’s Sotuhern border exploded.
The money fueling the Islamic terrorists has nothing to do with the Soviet Union or Russian Mafia or whatever you were trying to say.
It is coming from oil and from poppy seeds.
Russia has happily sold weapons to anyone that would stand against America for decades. This did not change due to the collapse of the Soviet Union.
China and North Korea are also supplying weapons to the bad guys.[/quote]
These “bad guys” are the same guys that were hugely funded by the U.S. to fight the Soviet Uniion when it invaded.
There are no “bad guys” or “good guys” in the middle east extremist factions.
There are really only “stay the fuck out guys” all around. There might be some “we’ll do business with you as long as you stay the fuck out guys” but that’s about it.
I really don’t know how else to explain to you how huge an impact the almost immediate dissolution of a 4000 mile border formerly patrolled by a regular army was to the expansion of money flow and power to the “stay the fuck out guys” in the region.
More improtantly, though, was the huge confidence builder it was for the “we’ll do business…with you guys”.
A border that they’d been fighting decades on was gone and the money’s flowing in like they struck oil.
In their minds, or at least what they were telling their henchmen, THEY had brought down the borders and THEY had the leverage.
Unfortunately the United States thought much the same; throught the magic powers of Reagan’s diplomacy or, to the more enlightened, the power of duel use “donations” and almost 1 billion dollars of funding, the U.S. had “brought down the wall”.
So when it came down to oil flow, the U.S. pushed and pushed, and all of a sudden there were no more Bush-Bin Laden pool parties and a basement explodes.
The U.S. keeps pushing, and after we proclaimed support for Isreal to continue our military contracts with their beautiful communications systems, that’s all that was needed(along with the promise ofbetter life for their family) to convince a dozen or so men to commit murder and suicide.
Sure oil and heroin is the greatest source of revenues for our mid east ex-girlfriends, but it only fuels the head.
While the fish might rot from the head, a head without a body can only move it’s lips.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I am the one who said that he was born into wealth and power and used it to better himself.
However, I go on to say that he worked very hard and must have done a good job as he was reelected to two terms as Governor and then to two terms as President.
The name perhaps gets you the nomination but it does not get you reelected TWICE!
[/quote]
I will address this weak premise that you are basing your argument on in a minute. But first let’s discuss your next statement, shall we:
This statement illustrates that you have absolutely nothing to bolster your weak point. You resorted to a personal attack on me because I dared to threaten the illusion of greatness that you have placed around your hero. This illustrates the height of your arrogance, the depth of your ignorance and reinforces what many people on here know about you, that you are nothing more than a self-righteous, smug asshole.
You know absolutely nothing about my father, or me yet that did not stop you from including my family in your bullshit. I find that incredibly offensive and putting a winking smiley face behind it and trying to play it off as a joke does not make it ok. If I had done this to you, I could see the need for it, but I didn’t. I talked about someone that you don’t even know, President Bush, not you or your family. The fact that you would stoop this low to defend someone who doesn’t even know who you was unnecessary, uncalled for and illustrates your lack of character.
You might think that I am overreacting, but I am not. You don’t have any facts about me to make that assessment. However, to enlighten you, I will give you some facts about me so you’ll see why I find this so offensive. My parents have been dead for almost 30 years. My mother died from leukemia when I was a sophomore in high school and my father died from kidney failure when I was a senior in high school. Despite this, I graduated high school, college and graduate school (paying my own way each time, mind you). I have been successful in my field of study (Chemistry) both in school and in the private sector. I have published several papers and have successfully filed several patents. I have been married only one time for many years and have two wonderful kids. I did all of this WITHOUT my daddy paving every step of the way for me. Therefore, I have every right to knock Bush whether YOU think so or not. So you can kiss my ass and take your little smart-ass statement and go fuck yourself with it.
You’ll probably say that I am angry and hate-filled, because that’s your usual defense when you are attacked for the nonsense that you spew on here on a regular basis, but you are the one that took this to a personal level. In this case, you deserve this anger.
Now as far as this weak-ass premise:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
However, I go on to say that he worked very hard and must have done a good job as he was reelected to two terms as Governor and then to two terms as President.
The name perhaps gets you the nomination but it does not get you reelected TWICE!
[/quote]
Let’s destroy these really quick, because this is the basis of why you believe he deserves credit.
The name got him the nomination and lead to him getting into both offices. You’ve pretty much said that yourself. Now, I am not from Texas and I have never lived in Texas, so take what I say with that understanding. However, one of the things that I do know about Texas is that if there were two candidates, one a highly qualified, squeaky-clean Democrat (not that any exist, but this is just an example, so bear with me) the other a rabid pitbull running as the incumbent Republican, the pitbull would win every single time. Therefore, Bush running for re-election as a Republican in Texas and winning wasn’t very hard to do.
As far as being re-elected President, discounting any election fraud that may or may not have occurred, he was running a re-election campaign as a wartime president with 9/11 as his backdrop. A war that had not, at that time, been viewed as negatively as it is now. It is incredibly difficult to unseat a wartime president. People tend to dislike changing horses in mid-stream. Also, much of the scandal that we know about now was not in the forefront then. Couple that with him running against a candidate that simply was not a strong one and it was not as great an accomplishment as you’d like to make it out to be. In other words, he doesn’t deserve the credit that you are trying so desperately to convince us that he deserves. Only die-hard Bush loyalists will be on your side. Interestly enough, none of them have chimed in to help you.
As far as me hating Bush, I never made that a secret. I don’t like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Rice, Rove or any of them. However, It is not because they are Republicans, it is because they are this new version of Republicans. This version thinks that it is ok to spend uncontrollably, but yet cut taxes at a time of war. This version believes that it is ok to invade American citizen’s privacy by wiretapping us without warrants and to strong-arm telecommunication companies into helping them do it. This new version thinks that it is ok to ignore the constitution whenever it gets into the way of what they want. This new version thinks that it is ok to jail reporters that report leaks in the government that brings to light any wrongdoing committed by persons in the government. This new version thinks that it is ok to allow corporations to take jobs from Americans and send them overseas to third world countries and give them tax breaks to do so (Tax breaks that WE pay for).
The last time I checked, real Republicans are against these things. I don’t hate real Republicans. I feel that there is a great deal of merit in what the real Republicans stand for. I hate this new version of Republicans and Bush is the head representative of them.
Trying to reason with Zeb is like trying to dig through Hoover Dam with a piece of rebar.
Cheers![/quote]
I knew this already. But even he never stooped this low before. I needed to say something in response. Had he left out his little personal attack, I would have let his rantings go and let the thread die.
