Drug Wars, Drug Laws, Legalization, Decriminalization

[MaximusB]

To all the people who argue for legalizing pot…

Do you really think the government is going to jeopardize the gold mine that is the DOJ, DOC, prisons, and law enforcement in general? You really think “moral judgment” will prevail over the multi-billion dollar money maker that is incarceration of drug offenders? How many drug offenders are there compared to rapists, murderers, child molesters, etc ?

People, this shit aint gonna happen. You see, the money train needs to keep rollin’ on, and locking up people for dope (regardless of the “severity” of that dope) will not change.

[Fletch1986]

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
To all the people who argue for legalizing pot…

Do you really think the government is going to jeopardize the gold mine that is the DOJ, DOC, prisons, and law enforcement in general? You really think “moral judgment” will prevail over the multi-billion dollar money maker that is incarceration of drug offenders? How many drug offenders are there compared to rapists, murderers, child molesters, etc ?

People, this shit aint gonna happen. You see, the money train needs to keep rollin’ on, and locking up people for dope (regardless of the “severity” of that dope) will not change. [/quote]

You sound rather hopeless on the matter. There has been progress in places like Denver, and of course California.

[DBCooper]

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
If I go to a coffe shop everyday and slam back coffe for a few hours straight, I’m really only in contact with other people who are there for coffee. But using any sort of illegal drug is much more likely to put me in contact with other illegal drug users, who may be using any number of drugs beyond what I am using.[/quote]

Now let’s imagine this happening if Marijuana is legal.[/quote]

I’m imagining it. Now what? [/quote]
Come now, if it were legal and sold in stores, people trying pot for the first time aren’t associating with dealers who try to flog off some cocaine as well.

Savvy?[/quote]

Maybe you missed the part where I said I support legalization. You raise an interesting point. But I would also argue that the psychological effect that weed has is an inherent factor in its “gateway” status. People use drugs for many reasons, but when they first start to use any sort of drug, it’s a way to fit in, to change other people’s perceptions of them. I mean this in respect to people who are candidates for addiction. I work with a lot of people who are recovering alcoholics and addicts and this is the case in some way, shape or form with virtually all of them.

So weed can change how people think of themselves and how they feel others view them. And for these people, this change in perception is a good thing. So the use of other drugs is just another way to alter this perception. Many addicts don’t realize this concept is at work until they make a conscious decision to get sober, and many people who use any controlled substance in a purely recreational manner do not understand this concept either, because it is not the case with them. For many people, addiction is actually a symptom of a larger problem.

Also, for better or for worse, many people who start smoking weed and become addicted move to other drugs because they just simply like to be fucked up. If it fucks them up, sign them up. I can personally attest to this. For these two groups of people, weed is very much a “gateway”, or as I like to think of it, the push that gets you rolling downhill. These people are already at the top of the proverbial hill; weed does not bring them up there to be pushed down. These people are already at the top of the hill and are just waiting for something to come along and give them that shove.

This simply is not the case with coffee, for whatever reason. People don’t really start drinking coffee and then move on to other drugs. But it happens to many people with weed. The coffeeshop analogy I used was meant to be applied to coffee and why it is not the gateway drug that weed can be. That same analogy would not hold true for weed. Perhaps I worded my analogy poorly. My point is this: coffee is not used to get fucked up or alter people’s perceptions of the person drinking it. So going to a coffee shop is not going to necessarily put you into contact with people who are interested in getting fucked up. Weed will do this, no matter where it is used or how it is used.

If people are in a coffee shop smoking weed, you are in contact with other people smoking weed and therefore you are likely to be in contact with other people who like to get fucked up and are open about it. The more contact you have with people who like to use drugs of any kind for the purpose of “getting fucked up”, then the more likely you are to be in contact with other drugs that “fuck you up” at some point.

[Makavali]

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
If I go to a coffe shop everyday and slam back coffe for a few hours straight, I’m really only in contact with other people who are there for coffee. But using any sort of illegal drug is much more likely to put me in contact with other illegal drug users, who may be using any number of drugs beyond what I am using.[/quote]

Now let’s imagine this happening if Marijuana is legal.[/quote]

I’m imagining it. Now what? [/quote]
Come now, if it were legal and sold in stores, people trying pot for the first time aren’t associating with dealers who try to flog off some cocaine as well.

Savvy?[/quote]

Maybe you missed the part where I said I support legalization. You raise an interesting point. But I would also argue that the psychological effect that weed has is an inherent factor in its “gateway” status. People use drugs for many reasons, but when they first start to use any sort of drug, it’s a way to fit in, to change other people’s perceptions of them. I mean this in respect to people who are candidates for addiction. I work with a lot of people who are recovering alcoholics and addicts and this is the case in some way, shape or form with virtually all of them.

So weed can change how people think of themselves and how they feel others view them. And for these people, this change in perception is a good thing. So the use of other drugs is just another way to alter this perception. Many addicts don’t realize this concept is at work until they make a conscious decision to get sober, and many people who use any controlled substance in a purely recreational manner do not understand this concept either, because it is not the case with them. For many people, addiction is actually a symptom of a larger problem.

Also, for better or for worse, many people who start smoking weed and become addicted move to other drugs because they just simply like to be fucked up. If it fucks them up, sign them up. I can personally attest to this. For these two groups of people, weed is very much a “gateway”, or as I like to think of it, the push that gets you rolling downhill. These people are already at the top of the proverbial hill; weed does not bring them up there to be pushed down. These people are already at the top of the hill and are just waiting for something to come along and give them that shove.

This simply is not the case with coffee, for whatever reason. People don’t really start drinking coffee and then move on to other drugs. But it happens to many people with weed. The coffeeshop analogy I used was meant to be applied to coffee and why it is not the gateway drug that weed can be. That same analogy would not hold true for weed. Perhaps I worded my analogy poorly. My point is this: coffee is not used to get fucked up or alter people’s perceptions of the person drinking it. So going to a coffee shop is not going to necessarily put you into contact with people who are interested in getting fucked up. Weed will do this, no matter where it is used or how it is used.

If people are in a coffee shop smoking weed, you are in contact with other people smoking weed and therefore you are likely to be in contact with other people who like to get fucked up and are open about it. The more contact you have with people who like to use drugs of any kind for the purpose of “getting fucked up”, then the more likely you are to be in contact with other drugs that “fuck you up” at some point. [/quote]

By the way, the “savvy” thing is a result of 48 hours with no sleep (prepping a portfolio for work) and just watching a re-run of Pirates of the Caribbean, not a crack at you.

[storey420]

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
If I go to a coffe shop everyday and slam back coffe for a few hours straight, I’m really only in contact with other people who are there for coffee. But using any sort of illegal drug is much more likely to put me in contact with other illegal drug users, who may be using any number of drugs beyond what I am using.[/quote]

Now let’s imagine this happening if Marijuana is legal.[/quote]

I’m imagining it. Now what? [/quote]
Come now, if it were legal and sold in stores, people trying pot for the first time aren’t associating with dealers who try to flog off some cocaine as well.

Savvy?[/quote]

Maybe you missed the part where I said I support legalization. You raise an interesting point. But I would also argue that the psychological effect that weed has is an inherent factor in its “gateway” status. People use drugs for many reasons, but when they first start to use any sort of drug, it’s a way to fit in, to change other people’s perceptions of them. I mean this in respect to people who are candidates for addiction. I work with a lot of people who are recovering alcoholics and addicts and this is the case in some way, shape or form with virtually all of them.

So weed can change how people think of themselves and how they feel others view them. And for these people, this change in perception is a good thing. So the use of other drugs is just another way to alter this perception. Many addicts don’t realize this concept is at work until they make a conscious decision to get sober, and many people who use any controlled substance in a purely recreational manner do not understand this concept either, because it is not the case with them. For many people, addiction is actually a symptom of a larger problem.

Also, for better or for worse, many people who start smoking weed and become addicted move to other drugs because they just simply like to be fucked up. If it fucks them up, sign them up. I can personally attest to this. For these two groups of people, weed is very much a “gateway”, or as I like to think of it, the push that gets you rolling downhill. These people are already at the top of the proverbial hill; weed does not bring them up there to be pushed down. These people are already at the top of the hill and are just waiting for something to come along and give them that shove.

This simply is not the case with coffee, for whatever reason. People don’t really start drinking coffee and then move on to other drugs. But it happens to many people with weed. The coffeeshop analogy I used was meant to be applied to coffee and why it is not the gateway drug that weed can be. That same analogy would not hold true for weed. Perhaps I worded my analogy poorly. My point is this: coffee is not used to get fucked up or alter people’s perceptions of the person drinking it. So going to a coffee shop is not going to necessarily put you into contact with people who are interested in getting fucked up. Weed will do this, no matter where it is used or how it is used.

If people are in a coffee shop smoking weed, you are in contact with other people smoking weed and therefore you are likely to be in contact with other people who like to get fucked up and are open about it. The more contact you have with people who like to use drugs of any kind for the purpose of “getting fucked up”, then the more likely you are to be in contact with other drugs that “fuck you up” at some point. [/quote]

I’m just curious if anyone else is of the opinion that you could change the word weed with alcohol in this entire post and it would be roughly the same. If you move to a new town and don’t know a soul and want to get drugs go to a bar or work in a restaurant and you will be hooked up in days. No one ever in the history of pot has gotten baked and then sat around with their friends and said “Yo we need to get an 8ball and get wired up!” but that happens daily with alcohol as a “gateway.” People that want to take it to that next level with drugs do so because of their personality traits and while the environment may make it easier or push someone over the edge it is your personal character that defines that choice as a “gateway”

[DBCooper]

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
If I go to a coffe shop everyday and slam back coffe for a few hours straight, I’m really only in contact with other people who are there for coffee. But using any sort of illegal drug is much more likely to put me in contact with other illegal drug users, who may be using any number of drugs beyond what I am using.[/quote]

Now let’s imagine this happening if Marijuana is legal.[/quote]

I’m imagining it. Now what? [/quote]
Come now, if it were legal and sold in stores, people trying pot for the first time aren’t associating with dealers who try to flog off some cocaine as well.

Savvy?[/quote]

Maybe you missed the part where I said I support legalization. You raise an interesting point. But I would also argue that the psychological effect that weed has is an inherent factor in its “gateway” status. People use drugs for many reasons, but when they first start to use any sort of drug, it’s a way to fit in, to change other people’s perceptions of them. I mean this in respect to people who are candidates for addiction. I work with a lot of people who are recovering alcoholics and addicts and this is the case in some way, shape or form with virtually all of them.

So weed can change how people think of themselves and how they feel others view them. And for these people, this change in perception is a good thing. So the use of other drugs is just another way to alter this perception. Many addicts don’t realize this concept is at work until they make a conscious decision to get sober, and many people who use any controlled substance in a purely recreational manner do not understand this concept either, because it is not the case with them. For many people, addiction is actually a symptom of a larger problem.

Also, for better or for worse, many people who start smoking weed and become addicted move to other drugs because they just simply like to be fucked up. If it fucks them up, sign them up. I can personally attest to this. For these two groups of people, weed is very much a “gateway”, or as I like to think of it, the push that gets you rolling downhill. These people are already at the top of the proverbial hill; weed does not bring them up there to be pushed down. These people are already at the top of the hill and are just waiting for something to come along and give them that shove.

This simply is not the case with coffee, for whatever reason. People don’t really start drinking coffee and then move on to other drugs. But it happens to many people with weed. The coffeeshop analogy I used was meant to be applied to coffee and why it is not the gateway drug that weed can be. That same analogy would not hold true for weed. Perhaps I worded my analogy poorly. My point is this: coffee is not used to get fucked up or alter people’s perceptions of the person drinking it. So going to a coffee shop is not going to necessarily put you into contact with people who are interested in getting fucked up. Weed will do this, no matter where it is used or how it is used.

If people are in a coffee shop smoking weed, you are in contact with other people smoking weed and therefore you are likely to be in contact with other people who like to get fucked up and are open about it. The more contact you have with people who like to use drugs of any kind for the purpose of “getting fucked up”, then the more likely you are to be in contact with other drugs that “fuck you up” at some point. [/quote]

I’m just curious if anyone else is of the opinion that you could change the word weed with alcohol in this entire post and it would be roughly the same. If you move to a new town and don’t know a soul and want to get drugs go to a bar or work in a restaurant and you will be hooked up in days. No one ever in the history of pot has gotten baked and then sat around with their friends and said “Yo we need to get an 8ball and get wired up!” but that happens daily with alcohol as a “gateway.” People that want to take it to that next level with drugs do so because of their personality traits and while the environment may make it easier or push someone over the edge it is your personal character that defines that choice as a “gateway”[/quote]

No argument here. Alcohol is THE gateway drug in society, hands down. I think people think of weed as one simply because most people don’t even really think of alcohol as a drug. Even I differentiate between the two when I refer to people as addicts and alcoholics. If you are an alcoholic, you are a drug addict by definition.

Weed just seems to be the gateway drug because its effects are much easier to handle for the first-time drug user. If someone I knew wanted to try some drugs, I’m not going to give them some acid or some cocaine. They’re better off “easing into it” with weed. But if someone with a predisposition for addiction tries cocaine as their first drug, boom, there’s the gateway drug. ALL drugs (I am exclusing caffeine and nicotine for obvious reasons) are gateway drugs.

[DBCooper]

By the way Storey420. I’ve bought a ton of 8 balls after smoking a shitload of weed. I can remember all sorts of times when I was sitting at my friend’s house smoking blunts all day and saying “when does so and so get home? We need to start throwing some fucking COKE into these things! Who wants to go in on an 8ball before we hit the bars tonight?”

[storey420]

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
By the way Storey420. I’ve bought a ton of 8 balls after smoking a shitload of weed. I can remember all sorts of times when I was sitting at my friend’s house smoking blunts all day and saying “when does so and so get home? We need to start throwing some fucking COKE into these things! Who wants to go in on an 8ball before we hit the bars tonight?”[/quote]

Damn! for real? I can’t think of that ever happening in all of the sessions hangouts I had back in the day unless alcohol came into the mix.

[pittbulll]

Another big stumbling block for legalizing pot are Treaties with other countries , And they need a way to tax it

[Fletch1986]

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
By the way Storey420. I’ve bought a ton of 8 balls after smoking a shitload of weed. I can remember all sorts of times when I was sitting at my friend’s house smoking blunts all day and saying “when does so and so get home? We need to start throwing some fucking COKE into these things! Who wants to go in on an 8ball before we hit the bars tonight?”[/quote]

Damn! for real? I can’t think of that ever happening in all of the sessions hangouts I had back in the day unless alcohol came into the mix.[/quote]

Drugs affect different people in different ways. Concerning drug use is not the time to say ‘so and so isn’t affected/is affected so that’s how it is with everyone’.

[storey420]

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
By the way Storey420. I’ve bought a ton of 8 balls after smoking a shitload of weed. I can remember all sorts of times when I was sitting at my friend’s house smoking blunts all day and saying “when does so and so get home? We need to start throwing some fucking COKE into these things! Who wants to go in on an 8ball before we hit the bars tonight?”[/quote]

Damn! for real? I can’t think of that ever happening in all of the sessions hangouts I had back in the day unless alcohol came into the mix.[/quote]

Drugs affect different people in different ways. Concerning drug use is not the time to say ‘so and so isn’t affected/is affected so that’s how it is with everyone’.[/quote]

True I suppose but I guess it’s just the “vibe” of herb that makes it seem so far off. It’s like if you went to a party of people exclusively drinking wine and eating cheese and crackers you’d expect political banter or book reviews not two dudes breaking into an ultimate fighting session in the living room.

[DBCooper]

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
By the way Storey420. I’ve bought a ton of 8 balls after smoking a shitload of weed. I can remember all sorts of times when I was sitting at my friend’s house smoking blunts all day and saying “when does so and so get home? We need to start throwing some fucking COKE into these things! Who wants to go in on an 8ball before we hit the bars tonight?”[/quote]

Damn! for real? I can’t think of that ever happening in all of the sessions hangouts I had back in the day unless alcohol came into the mix.[/quote]

Drugs affect different people in different ways. Concerning drug use is not the time to say ‘so and so isn’t affected/is affected so that’s how it is with everyone’.[/quote]

True I suppose but I guess it’s just the “vibe” of herb that makes it seem so far off. It’s like if you went to a party of people exclusively drinking wine and eating cheese and crackers you’d expect political banter or book reviews not two dudes breaking into an ultimate fighting session in the living room.[/quote]

There’s nothing about weed that attracts a specific type of person with a well-defined pre-disposition toward certain other drugs. I can think of times when I actually have been to a party where everyone was drinking champagne and wine. My friends and I showed up to my ex-GF’s house one New Year’s for just that type of party. My friends and I drank the same stuff as everyone else, but by 1am while they were remaining calm, my friends and I were hurling empty bottles off of her balcony and making trips to the bathroom three at a time every 20 minutes for some yayo.

For many people, myself included, weed has a calming effect. But it also slows me down and makes me tired after I’ve put an 1/8 to my face over the course of a couple hours, and cocaine yanks me out of that slump. People who abuse drugs, especially those who abuse them in the manner that I did, just like getting fucked up, period. If things are cool when I’m lit, my mindset tells me that things will be even better the more fucked up I am, which naturally leads to bringing more drugs into the mix.

There was a time when I was about 22 when I had been drinking heavily for most of the day on Labor Day here in Chico. We did the whole floating down the Sac River thing (for those of you from Cali you probably know what I’m talking about). By 5pm I was belligerently drunk. Not angry but just really rowdy and loud.

My friends thought if I smoked some weed I’d calm down. Didn’t happen; it just sent me into a new level of incoherentness. So they gave me a handful of shrooms. I got worse. So they gave me some Vicodine. My speech became slurred and I had trouble walking, but I didn’t calm down. So they gave me some muscle relaxers, which basically just paralyzed my face. This made things even worse, especially when the shrooms started to hit. So then they gave me some Ecstacy, which I promptly chopped up and snorted. This was a mistake. So they gave me more weed and a 1/5 of Jim Beam, figuring at that point I’d never make it through even a 1/3 of the bottle w/o passing out. Another mistake. Naturally, cocaine entered the mix at some point as well. Big-time mistake. I was ranting and raving and causing absolute havoc until they finally had to literally tie me up to a chair in the bathroom and locked me in there. The next day, needless to say, I was hung over beyond all comprehension.

So what did I do? I drank the rest of the Jim Beam and smoked a gigantic blunt while hot-boxing my truck. Half an hour after that I was craving cocaine again because it was dollar drink night at my favorite bar and I wasn’t going to make it until 8pm w/o some coke. If I passed out at 4pm, I would have been out and done with until at least noon the next day. So I got a gram of blow, went out and had a good time. No fights, no aggression, no calamity whatsoever. And by the time I got to the bars, it had been at least four hours since I last smoked weed.

Moral of the story: by your logic Storey, the weed the night before should have calmed me the fuck down and it should have calmed me down the following morning as well. But it didn’t. Why? Because I liked getting fucked up and no drug of any kind would remove this insatiable desire from me. I was an addict of the worst kind. And I’ve got a lot of stories like this about me and a lot of my friends. By no means was this an isolated incident.

[KneeDragger_79]

There are things like speed limits in place for what reason?? People are morons in general and things like laws are in place to give the population guidance. Sure there might be some people who can function perfectly fine while getting high with weed. That would be one reason many people use them as an example. Yet the vast majority of people will amount to NOTHING and in fact take advantage of other people. I do not like the government to have control. Yet they passed the universal health care bill and yet nothing has been done to repeal the law.

Now take drinking, should you be able to drive drunk as often as you want?? Well you can!! You can even kill someone!! They might throw you in jail for a little while, but after you get out they will even give you a drivers license. Why not pull them for life after just a single DUI??

The government needs little control over our lives yet they are gaining more control over other portions of our lives while they distract other people with things like weed. God I’m starting to sound like Beck and I haven’t watched him in months!!

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

It will not make everything better for society. In general, it probably won’t make ANYTHING better for society. But the govt is NOT a surrogate parent to its citizens and it is not intended as such. There is no reason why one person’s inability to do something that harms no one but himself should have that taken away from him simply because other people are incapable of doing the same thing with responsibility. How can you tell me that the govt should bear the responsibility to protect you from your roommate? He isn’t violating any of your rights directly and if he were, you are more than capable of packing up and moving. [/quote]

[Fletch1986]

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
By the way Storey420. I’ve bought a ton of 8 balls after smoking a shitload of weed. I can remember all sorts of times when I was sitting at my friend’s house smoking blunts all day and saying “when does so and so get home? We need to start throwing some fucking COKE into these things! Who wants to go in on an 8ball before we hit the bars tonight?”[/quote]

Damn! for real? I can’t think of that ever happening in all of the sessions hangouts I had back in the day unless alcohol came into the mix.[/quote]

Drugs affect different people in different ways. Concerning drug use is not the time to say ‘so and so isn’t affected/is affected so that’s how it is with everyone’.[/quote]

True I suppose but I guess it’s just the “vibe” of herb that makes it seem so far off. It’s like if you went to a party of people exclusively drinking wine and eating cheese and crackers you’d expect political banter or book reviews not two dudes breaking into an ultimate fighting session in the living room.[/quote]

There’s nothing about weed that attracts a specific type of person with a well-defined pre-disposition toward certain other drugs. I can think of times when I actually have been to a party where everyone was drinking champagne and wine. My friends and I showed up to my ex-GF’s house one New Year’s for just that type of party. My friends and I drank the same stuff as everyone else, but by 1am while they were remaining calm, my friends and I were hurling empty bottles off of her balcony and making trips to the bathroom three at a time every 20 minutes for some yayo.

For many people, myself included, weed has a calming effect. But it also slows me down and makes me tired after I’ve put an 1/8 to my face over the course of a couple hours, and cocaine yanks me out of that slump. People who abuse drugs, especially those who abuse them in the manner that I did, just like getting fucked up, period. If things are cool when I’m lit, my mindset tells me that things will be even better the more fucked up I am, which naturally leads to bringing more drugs into the mix.

There was a time when I was about 22 when I had been drinking heavily for most of the day on Labor Day here in Chico. We did the whole floating down the Sac River thing (for those of you from Cali you probably know what I’m talking about). By 5pm I was belligerently drunk. Not angry but just really rowdy and loud.

My friends thought if I smoked some weed I’d calm down. Didn’t happen; it just sent me into a new level of incoherentness. So they gave me a handful of shrooms. I got worse. So they gave me some Vicodine. My speech became slurred and I had trouble walking, but I didn’t calm down. So they gave me some muscle relaxers, which basically just paralyzed my face. This made things even worse, especially when the shrooms started to hit. So then they gave me some Ecstacy, which I promptly chopped up and snorted. This was a mistake. So they gave me more weed and a 1/5 of Jim Beam, figuring at that point I’d never make it through even a 1/3 of the bottle w/o passing out. Another mistake. Naturally, cocaine entered the mix at some point as well. Big-time mistake. I was ranting and raving and causing absolute havoc until they finally had to literally tie me up to a chair in the bathroom and locked me in there. The next day, needless to say, I was hung over beyond all comprehension.

So what did I do? I drank the rest of the Jim Beam and smoked a gigantic blunt while hot-boxing my truck. Half an hour after that I was craving cocaine again because it was dollar drink night at my favorite bar and I wasn’t going to make it until 8pm w/o some coke. If I passed out at 4pm, I would have been out and done with until at least noon the next day. So I got a gram of blow, went out and had a good time. No fights, no aggression, no calamity whatsoever. And by the time I got to the bars, it had been at least four hours since I last smoked weed.

Moral of the story: by your logic Storey, the weed the night before should have calmed me the fuck down and it should have calmed me down the following morning as well. But it didn’t. Why? Because I liked getting fucked up and no drug of any kind would remove this insatiable desire from me. I was an addict of the worst kind. And I’ve got a lot of stories like this about me and a lot of my friends. By no means was this an isolated incident.[/quote]

Damn, you must have had one hell of a tolerance. That would have killed a lot of people.

[DBCooper]

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
There are things like speed limits in place for what reason?? People are morons in general and things like laws are in place to give the population guidance. Sure there might be some people who can function perfectly fine while getting high with weed. That would be one reason many people use them as an example. Yet the vast majority of people will amount to NOTHING and in fact take advantage of other people. I do not like the government to have control. Yet they passed the universal health care bill and yet nothing has been done to repeal the law.

Now take drinking, should you be able to drive drunk as often as you want?? Well you can!! You can even kill someone!! They might throw you in jail for a little while, but after you get out they will even give you a drivers license. Why not pull them for life after just a single DUI??

The government needs little control over our lives yet they are gaining more control over other portions of our lives while they distract other people with things like weed. God I’m starting to sound like Beck and I haven’t watched him in months!!

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

It will not make everything better for society. In general, it probably won’t make ANYTHING better for society. But the govt is NOT a surrogate parent to its citizens and it is not intended as such. There is no reason why one person’s inability to do something that harms no one but himself should have that taken away from him simply because other people are incapable of doing the same thing with responsibility. How can you tell me that the govt should bear the responsibility to protect you from your roommate? He isn’t violating any of your rights directly and if he were, you are more than capable of packing up and moving. [/quote]
[/quote]

I don’t think we need speed limits either. Most people, if there were no speed limits, would still drive at a safe speed anyways. Maybe some would drive beyond a “safe” speed, but most of those people probably aren’t letting the speed limit stop them anyways. We might see an increase in single-car accidents on empty stretches of highway where the driver was traveling at an excessive speed, but like I have stated repeatedly: it is NOT the govt’s job to make sure that those people don’t endanger themselves. It is the individual’s job.

And if you kill someone in a DUI-related crash, you are charged with negligent homicide and I do believe that here in California you cannot get a driver’s license when you are released. I agree that the penalties for DUI’s are way too low. We have tens of thousands of people dying each year in America due to drunk driving. I know a few people who have literally had dozens of them, but they all occurred decades ago. In California the penalties for DUI’s have gone up dramatically, but they should be much higher.

Driving drunk and legalizing weed are two entirely different issues though. When you drive drunk, you are a clear-cut danger to people around you, not just yourself. And it is all but inevitable that you will seriously hurt or kill someone besides yourself if you drive drunk on a regular basis over a long period of time. The same cannot be said about smoking weed in the privacy of your own home.

[DBCooper]

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
By the way Storey420. I’ve bought a ton of 8 balls after smoking a shitload of weed. I can remember all sorts of times when I was sitting at my friend’s house smoking blunts all day and saying “when does so and so get home? We need to start throwing some fucking COKE into these things! Who wants to go in on an 8ball before we hit the bars tonight?”[/quote]

Damn! for real? I can’t think of that ever happening in all of the sessions hangouts I had back in the day unless alcohol came into the mix.[/quote]

Drugs affect different people in different ways. Concerning drug use is not the time to say ‘so and so isn’t affected/is affected so that’s how it is with everyone’.[/quote]

True I suppose but I guess it’s just the “vibe” of herb that makes it seem so far off. It’s like if you went to a party of people exclusively drinking wine and eating cheese and crackers you’d expect political banter or book reviews not two dudes breaking into an ultimate fighting session in the living room.[/quote]

There’s nothing about weed that attracts a specific type of person with a well-defined pre-disposition toward certain other drugs. I can think of times when I actually have been to a party where everyone was drinking champagne and wine. My friends and I showed up to my ex-GF’s house one New Year’s for just that type of party. My friends and I drank the same stuff as everyone else, but by 1am while they were remaining calm, my friends and I were hurling empty bottles off of her balcony and making trips to the bathroom three at a time every 20 minutes for some yayo.

For many people, myself included, weed has a calming effect. But it also slows me down and makes me tired after I’ve put an 1/8 to my face over the course of a couple hours, and cocaine yanks me out of that slump. People who abuse drugs, especially those who abuse them in the manner that I did, just like getting fucked up, period. If things are cool when I’m lit, my mindset tells me that things will be even better the more fucked up I am, which naturally leads to bringing more drugs into the mix.

There was a time when I was about 22 when I had been drinking heavily for most of the day on Labor Day here in Chico. We did the whole floating down the Sac River thing (for those of you from Cali you probably know what I’m talking about). By 5pm I was belligerently drunk. Not angry but just really rowdy and loud.

My friends thought if I smoked some weed I’d calm down. Didn’t happen; it just sent me into a new level of incoherentness. So they gave me a handful of shrooms. I got worse. So they gave me some Vicodine. My speech became slurred and I had trouble walking, but I didn’t calm down. So they gave me some muscle relaxers, which basically just paralyzed my face. This made things even worse, especially when the shrooms started to hit. So then they gave me some Ecstacy, which I promptly chopped up and snorted. This was a mistake. So they gave me more weed and a 1/5 of Jim Beam, figuring at that point I’d never make it through even a 1/3 of the bottle w/o passing out. Another mistake. Naturally, cocaine entered the mix at some point as well. Big-time mistake. I was ranting and raving and causing absolute havoc until they finally had to literally tie me up to a chair in the bathroom and locked me in there. The next day, needless to say, I was hung over beyond all comprehension.

So what did I do? I drank the rest of the Jim Beam and smoked a gigantic blunt while hot-boxing my truck. Half an hour after that I was craving cocaine again because it was dollar drink night at my favorite bar and I wasn’t going to make it until 8pm w/o some coke. If I passed out at 4pm, I would have been out and done with until at least noon the next day. So I got a gram of blow, went out and had a good time. No fights, no aggression, no calamity whatsoever. And by the time I got to the bars, it had been at least four hours since I last smoked weed.

Moral of the story: by your logic Storey, the weed the night before should have calmed me the fuck down and it should have calmed me down the following morning as well. But it didn’t. Why? Because I liked getting fucked up and no drug of any kind would remove this insatiable desire from me. I was an addict of the worst kind. And I’ve got a lot of stories like this about me and a lot of my friends. By no means was this an isolated incident.[/quote]

Damn, you must have had one hell of a tolerance. That would have killed a lot of people.
[/quote]

They started calling me Dr. Gonzo for a while after that little episode.

[MaximusB]

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
To all the people who argue for legalizing pot…

Do you really think the government is going to jeopardize the gold mine that is the DOJ, DOC, prisons, and law enforcement in general? You really think “moral judgment” will prevail over the multi-billion dollar money maker that is incarceration of drug offenders? How many drug offenders are there compared to rapists, murderers, child molesters, etc ?

People, this shit aint gonna happen. You see, the money train needs to keep rollin’ on, and locking up people for dope (regardless of the “severity” of that dope) will not change. [/quote]

You sound rather hopeless on the matter. There has been progress in places like Denver, and
of course California.
[/quote]

Great, only 48 states to go.

[Fletch1986]

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
To all the people who argue for legalizing pot…

Do you really think the government is going to jeopardize the gold mine that is the DOJ, DOC, prisons, and law enforcement in general? You really think “moral judgment” will prevail over the multi-billion dollar money maker that is incarceration of drug offenders? How many drug offenders are there compared to rapists, murderers, child molesters, etc ?

People, this shit aint gonna happen. You see, the money train needs to keep rollin’ on, and locking up people for dope (regardless of the “severity” of that dope) will not change. [/quote]

You sound rather hopeless on the matter. There has been progress in places like Denver, and
of course California.
[/quote]

Great, only 48 states to go.
[/quote]

Used to be 50

[MaximusB]

Yea, used to.

[KneeDragger_79]

We HAVE TO HAVE speed limits, otherwise the people who drive the heaviest, largest trucks would walk away from almost every crash. Oh wait, that already happens!! Imagine if 16 yr old kids were to have cars with no speed limits. How many do you think would ever pay attention to a ‘safe speed’?? How many tragic deaths would result?? Come on DBC, we need speed limits. Next you’ll tell me we don’t need an infrastructure for water, sewer and the like.

As for DUI’s, the penalties are almost non existent currently. A slap on the wrist IMHO. Instead of the current situation, how about your license is pulled after a single one?? Where is the drawback in that?? Sorry but I have never gotten a DUI because I have been responsible and find rides before I get hammered. Often the drunk will walk away from a fatal car crash. Why do you suppose that is?? How is that fair to the family of the victim if the drunk can ever walk this earth again as a free man?? Yet this is a side discussion.

So driving stoned is different than driving drunk?? I will admit the speeds are lower in a wacky tobacco crash, yet all of your senses are still significantly slowed down in both. Just because a person doesn’t feel ‘that drunk/stoned’ means NOTHING about their true body chemistry being hampered. Plus then you argue for smoking weed in your house, do you really think people will only light up at home and never drive, anywhere?? Sorry man, I won’t even stretch that far and I’m a 6’7" gimp!!

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I don’t think we need speed limits either. Most people, if there were no speed limits, would still drive at a safe speed anyways. Maybe some would drive beyond a “safe” speed, but most of those people probably aren’t letting the speed limit stop them anyways. We might see an increase in single-car accidents on empty stretches of highway where the driver was traveling at an excessive speed, but like I have stated repeatedly: it is NOT the govt’s job to make sure that those people don’t endanger themselves. It is the individual’s job.

And if you kill someone in a DUI-related crash, you are charged with negligent homicide and I do believe that here in California you cannot get a driver’s license when you are released. I agree that the penalties for DUI’s are way too low. We have tens of thousands of people dying each year in America due to drunk driving. I know a few people who have literally had dozens of them, but they all occurred decades ago. In California the penalties for DUI’s have gone up dramatically, but they should be much higher.

Driving drunk and legalizing weed are two entirely different issues though. When you drive drunk, you are a clear-cut danger to people around you, not just yourself. And it is all but inevitable that you will seriously hurt or kill someone besides yourself if you drive drunk on a regular basis over a long period of time. The same cannot be said about smoking weed in the privacy of your own home.[/quote]