[quote]storey420 wrote:
Here are some more to debunk ZEB:
On November 12, 2009, Beck said the following on his radio show:
â??Do you know in the health care bill, weâ??re now offering insurance for dogs? Do I need to say any more?â??
â??If you are somebody who is like, â??Well, I just, Iâ??m struggling and weâ??re barely making ends meet,â?? Iâ??m not paying for your dog cardiologist! Not gonna do it. Iâ??m sorry, the dog goes nighty-night.â??
Now, I want everyone to go through the bill and show me where weâ??re offering insurance for dogs. Itâ??s not there. Never was. Glenn Beck was lying his ass off.
But I canâ??t stop there. As long as I was doing research, I had to keep digging.
Just a couple of months ago, Beck started talking about â??anchor babiesâ?? and how something needed to be changed to keep babies who are born in this country from being granted automatic citizenship. On June 10, he said the following on his Fox TV show:
â??Why do we have automatic citizenship upon birth? Do you know? Weâ??re the only country in the world that has it. Why?â??
Uh, Glenn, did you think no one would check the facts? By the way, it is called â??jus soliâ??, which is Latin for â??law of groundâ??. Below is a list of other countries that offer automatic citizenship upon birth.
* American Samoa (birth in American Samoa renders American Samoan and U.S. nationalities, but no birthright to U.S. citizenship)
* Antigua and Barbuda
* Argentina
* Azerbaijan
* Barbados
* Belize
* Bolivia
* Brazil
* Canada
* Chile (children of transient foreigners or of foreign diplomats on assignment in Chile only upon request)
* Colombia
* Dominica
* Dominican Republic
* Ecuador
* El Salvador
* Fiji
* Grenada
* Guatemala
* Guyana
* Honduras
* Jamaica
* Lesotho
* Mexico
* Nicaragua
* Pakistan
* Panama
* Paraguay
* Peru
* Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic
* Saint Christopher and Nevis
* Saint Lucia
* Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
* Trinidad and Tobago
* Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
* Uruguay
* Venezuela
So Glenn, thatâ??s 36 additional countries that offer jus soli. Can you feel the heat emanating from your pants yet?
On the July 22, 2009 episode of his Fox show, Beck â?? who was still railing against health care legislation â?? made this claim:
â??I mean, weâ??ve got czars now. Czars like John Holdren, who has proposed forcing abortions and putting sterilants in the drinking water to control population.â??
Before I refute his claim, I must go off on a tangent and say this about â??czarsâ??. People have been complaining about Obama having all these â??Czarsâ??. I wonder how many of the complainers realize that Obama has a total of 33 Czars and George W. Bush had 45. Now back to Beckâ??s claim about John Holdren.[/quote]
The health care bill is 2000 pages. Unless one bothers to read all of it how are we to know that something crazy like veterinary isn’t provided for in it? That bill is so complex that even members of congress who are voting on it haven’t read all of it. I have difficulty believing that is a major issue for Beck, as I’ve never heard him talk about it.
In this post you are accusing him of saying things but you don’t provide any evidence that he has. You expect us to just take the word of someone who has an axe to grind against him. Even if it all is true you are missing obvious desperation of this post. The author of this post is concentrating on trivial minutia and you are posting in the false hope that it will discredit everything he has ever said.
You need to show Beck is wrong on the major issues like how our educational system misleads or lies to our about our history. ie FDR’s new deal. In school I was taught the propaganda that it had saved us from the great depression. FDR’s policies are now widely understood to have deepened and prolonged the depression. This is significant because Obama is pursuing the same failed policies as FDR.
Instead of throwing unsupported, petty, gotchya’s at us you need to disprove the major issues that Beck has educated us about. You need to bring some fire or stay in your nursery because right now you are bringing the weak sauce.
I don’t think he’s as much of a socialist as some would like him to be, or maybe he himself would be if he could get away with it. For example is there any question that the health care bill would look far different if he had his way?
[/quote]
So, at the same time “we’ve never had a President who has been this far left,” and Obama would like to be much more socialist “if he could get away with it?” What is your basis for this assumtion outside of Glenn Beck’s radically false raving and ranting about it?[/quote]
Oops, there you go again. You have to prove that Beck raves falsly. I claim he tells the truth and have debunked all the nonsense posted. Do you have more nonsense that I don’t know about you’d like to post that I can debunk?
Or, you could just admit that you don’t like Beck for two other reasons: 1. He acts like a jerk sometimes. 2. He is on the opposite side of the fence and you basically disagree with him. Other than that YOU GOT NOTHIN!
[quote]storey420 wrote:
Here are some more to debunk ZEB:
On November 12, 2009, Beck said the following on his radio show:
�¢??Do you know in the health care bill, we�¢??re now offering insurance for dogs? Do I need to say any more?�¢??
�¢??If you are somebody who is like, �¢??Well, I just, I�¢??m struggling and we�¢??re barely making ends meet,�¢?? I�¢??m not paying for your dog cardiologist! Not gonna do it. I�¢??m sorry, the dog goes nighty-night.�¢??
Now, I want everyone to go through the bill and show me where we�¢??re offering insurance for dogs. It�¢??s not there. Never was. Glenn Beck was lying his ass off.
But I can�¢??t stop there. As long as I was doing research, I had to keep digging.
Just a couple of months ago, Beck started talking about �¢??anchor babies�¢?? and how something needed to be changed to keep babies who are born in this country from being granted automatic citizenship. On June 10, he said the following on his Fox TV show:
�¢??Why do we have automatic citizenship upon birth? Do you know? We�¢??re the only country in the world that has it. Why?�¢??
Uh, Glenn, did you think no one would check the facts? By the way, it is called �¢??jus soli�¢??, which is Latin for �¢??law of ground�¢??. Below is a list of other countries that offer automatic citizenship upon birth.
* American Samoa (birth in American Samoa renders American Samoan and U.S. nationalities, but no birthright to U.S. citizenship)
* Antigua and Barbuda
* Argentina
* Azerbaijan
* Barbados
* Belize
* Bolivia
* Brazil
* Canada
* Chile (children of transient foreigners or of foreign diplomats on assignment in Chile only upon request)
* Colombia
* Dominica
* Dominican Republic
* Ecuador
* El Salvador
* Fiji
* Grenada
* Guatemala
* Guyana
* Honduras
* Jamaica
* Lesotho
* Mexico
* Nicaragua
* Pakistan
* Panama
* Paraguay
* Peru
* Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic
* Saint Christopher and Nevis
* Saint Lucia
* Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
* Trinidad and Tobago
* Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
* Uruguay
* Venezuela
So Glenn, that�¢??s 36 additional countries that offer jus soli. Can you feel the heat emanating from your pants yet?
On the July 22, 2009 episode of his Fox show, Beck �¢?? who was still railing against health care legislation �¢?? made this claim:
�¢??I mean, we�¢??ve got czars now. Czars like John Holdren, who has proposed forcing abortions and putting sterilants in the drinking water to control population.�¢??
Before I refute his claim, I must go off on a tangent and say this about �¢??czars�¢??. People have been complaining about Obama having all these �¢??Czars�¢??. I wonder how many of the complainers realize that Obama has a total of 33 Czars and George W. Bush had 45. Now back to Beck�¢??s claim about John Holdren.[/quote]
The health care bill is 2000 pages. Unless one bothers to read all of it how are we to know that something crazy like veterinary isn’t provided for in it? That bill is so complex that even members of congress who are voting on it haven’t read all of it. I have difficulty believing that is a major issue for Beck, as I’ve never heard him talk about it.
In this post you are accusing him of saying things but you don’t provide any evidence that he has. You expect us to just take the word of someone who has an axe to grind against him. Even if it all is true you are missing obvious desperation of this post. The author of this post is concentrating on trivial minutia and you are posting in the false hope that it will discredit everything he has ever said.
You need to show Beck is wrong on the major issues like how our educational system misleads or lies to our about our history. ie FDR’s new deal. In school I was taught the propaganda that it had saved us from the great depression. FDR’s policies are now widely understood to have deepened and prolonged the depression. This is significant because Obama is pursuing the same failed policies as FDR.
Instead of throwing unsupported, petty, gotchya’s at us you need to disprove the major issues that Beck has educated us about. You need to bring some fire or stay in your nursery because right now you are bringing the weak sauce.
[/quote]
Umm…no I don’t there Sifu. ZEB asked Hulk repeatedly for examples that Beck had lied and even a few posts ago said “I am flat out stating that out of all the things that Beck has said he has never lied. That is my supposition.”
I was tired of reading this without Hulk actually posting anything and the back and forth about who the burden of proof was on, so I posted these. ZEB refuted the first set, good for him. No answer yet to these.
I posted a specific example, if YOU are a follower of this douche then YOU need to take your happy ass down to the interwebs and listen to his Nov. 12th show and dispute that he even said that, then YOU need to read the bill and disprove it. That’s how this works.
I don’t need to show what Beck is wrong about on major issues, are you dense? The crux of the arguments on here is that he LIED. I actually think Beck is right on some of the issues he talks about, wrong on others, still a douche either way.
Now go pull out your bottle of weak sauce from your nursery, wipe the drool you get from watching Beck off your face and do some actual research and refute what I wrote “sifu.”
I don’t think he’s as much of a socialist as some would like him to be, or maybe he himself would be if he could get away with it. For example is there any question that the health care bill would look far different if he had his way?
[/quote]
So, at the same time “we’ve never had a President who has been this far left,” and Obama would like to be much more socialist “if he could get away with it?” What is your basis for this assumtion outside of Glenn Beck’s radically false raving and ranting about it?[/quote]
Oops, there you go again. You have to prove that Beck raves falsly. I claim he tells the truth and have debunked all the nonsense posted. Do you have more nonsense that I don’t know about you’d like to post that I can debunk?
Or, you could just admit that you don’t like Beck for two other reasons: 1. He acts like a jerk sometimes. 2. He is on the opposite side of the fence and you basically disagree with him. Other than that YOU GOT NOTHIN!
[/quote]
stop avoiding questions ZEB!!
chomskyan directed that question to you, not beck.
so what do you base your opinion about obama being a socialist?
I don’t think he’s as much of a socialist as some would like him to be, or maybe he himself would be if he could get away with it. For example is there any question that the health care bill would look far different if he had his way?
[/quote]
So, at the same time “we’ve never had a President who has been this far left,” and Obama would like to be much more socialist “if he could get away with it?” What is your basis for this assumtion outside of Glenn Beck’s radically false raving and ranting about it?[/quote]
Oops, there you go again. You have to prove that Beck raves falsly. I claim he tells the truth and have debunked all the nonsense posted. Do you have more nonsense that I don’t know about you’d like to post that I can debunk?
Or, you could just admit that you don’t like Beck for two other reasons: 1. He acts like a jerk sometimes. 2. He is on the opposite side of the fence and you basically disagree with him. Other than that YOU GOT NOTHIN!
[/quote]
stop avoiding questions ZEB!!
chomskyan directed that question to you, not beck.
so what do you base your opinion about obama being a socialist?[/quote]
Maybe when I get my question answered I’ll be in the mood to answer questions. Do you want to play? Tell me where Beck lied about something of significance.
I don’t think he’s as much of a socialist as some would like him to be, or maybe he himself would be if he could get away with it. For example is there any question that the health care bill would look far different if he had his way?
[/quote]
So, at the same time “we’ve never had a President who has been this far left,” and Obama would like to be much more socialist “if he could get away with it?” What is your basis for this assumtion outside of Glenn Beck’s radically false raving and ranting about it?[/quote]
Oops, there you go again. You have to prove that Beck raves falsly. I claim he tells the truth and have debunked all the nonsense posted. Do you have more nonsense that I don’t know about you’d like to post that I can debunk?
Or, you could just admit that you don’t like Beck for two other reasons: 1. He acts like a jerk sometimes. 2. He is on the opposite side of the fence and you basically disagree with him. Other than that YOU GOT NOTHIN!
[/quote]
stop avoiding questions ZEB!!
chomskyan directed that question to you, not beck.
so what do you base your opinion about obama being a socialist?[/quote]
Maybe when I get my question answered I’ll be in the mood to answer questions. Do you want to play? Tell me where Beck lied about something of significance.
[/quote]
I dont watch beck and I am not taking part of your discussion about him. what I want answered is why keep calling obama and hes comrades socialist/marxist. what do you base this on?
show me how the obama administrations policys have made america move towards socialism.
and btw: I would be really happy if obama did push for socialist policy, but I am not seeing it. so I am not afraid to find about the truth.
I don’t think he’s as much of a socialist as some would like him to be, or maybe he himself would be if he could get away with it. For example is there any question that the health care bill would look far different if he had his way?
[/quote]
So, at the same time “we’ve never had a President who has been this far left,” and Obama would like to be much more socialist “if he could get away with it?” What is your basis for this assumtion outside of Glenn Beck’s radically false raving and ranting about it?[/quote]
Oops, there you go again. You have to prove that Beck raves falsly. I claim he tells the truth and have debunked all the nonsense posted. Do you have more nonsense that I don’t know about you’d like to post that I can debunk?
Or, you could just admit that you don’t like Beck for two other reasons: 1. He acts like a jerk sometimes. 2. He is on the opposite side of the fence and you basically disagree with him. Other than that YOU GOT NOTHIN!
[/quote]
stop avoiding questions ZEB!!
chomskyan directed that question to you, not beck.
so what do you base your opinion about obama being a socialist?[/quote]
Maybe when I get my question answered I’ll be in the mood to answer questions. Do you want to play? Tell me where Beck lied about something of significance.
[/quote]
I dont watch beck and I am not taking part of your discussion about him. what I want answered is why keep calling obama and hes comrades socialist/marxist. what do you base this on?
show me how the obama administrations policys have made america move towards socialism.
and btw: I would be really happy if obama did push for socialist policy, but I am not seeing it. so I am not afraid to find about the truth.
[/quote]
I fully understand that he’s not as far left as you’d like him to be, or probably as much as he’d like to be. But you saw where his leftist policies have gotten the democratic party and our country.
Since you seem civil and not attempting to argue that Glenn Beck is a liar (eye roll) I’ll answer your question.
Obama’s socialst leanings go pretty deep.
“Obama attended socialist conferences in the 1980’s and lectured his family about the benefits of socialism. after attending these conferences.” Washington Post
"He went to a socialist conferences at Cooper Union and African cultural fairs in Brooklyn and started lecturing his relatives until they worried he’d become “one of those freaks you see on the streets around here.”
Source: New York Daily News
“Obama attended meetings with the “Chicago Democratic Socialists of America”
From their website: 'Our mission is to establish democratic socialism as a political force in the United States and around the world by training and mobilizing socialist activists to participate in a vibrant and diverse socialist organization at both the local and the national level.”
Two teachers that highly influenced Obama’s mother’s life taught about Communism and Marxism. And as we now know his mother was the strongest influence in his early life. This is what he said about her: “the dominant figure in my formative years. The values she taught me continue to be my touchstone when it comes to how I go about the world of politics.” Chicago Tribune. We won’t get into the beliefs of his half crazed father
Obama Endorsed Bernie Sanders, the only openly socialist senator in the US Senate. Granted you don’t have to be a socialist to endorse someone, but then again it doesn’t help your cause if you’re trying to run from the label.
Obama gave the eulogy at Socialist Leader Saul Mendelson’s Funderal. I didn’t read about George Bush or even Bill Clinton attending.
The Chicago Democratic Socialist Party Endorsed Obama.
Obama wants to normalize relations with Communist Socialist Cuba. This is the first President to my memory that wants to do this. All the others, even democrats Johnson, Carter and Clinton wanted nothing to do with this.
I think you can put it together from here:
1-Massive government spending. Expanding our national debt to over 13 trillion! That’s more than big spending GW Bush did in eight years time.
2-Extending government aid to those who do not work for it.
3-Expanding government at a faster rate (per days in office) than any other President
4-Massive take overs and loans to business so that control can be consolodated.
5-National health care-the biggest government program (and consequently take over) in the history of the our country. By the way 67% of the people did NOT WANT this program, but socialist Obama pushed it through a democratic house and senate anyway - he will pay for that ni a matter of about 3 weeks in the mid-term elections.
6-Increasing taxes on everyone beginning January 1st. But we knew this was coming when he slapped Joe the Plumber on the back and told him to share the wealth.
7-His disdain for business of every size large and small is unprecedented.
9-Obama spent 800 billion on a failed stimulus package. Since then 2.8 million more jobs have been lost. His large (socialist) government “jobs programs” have been a resounding failure.
Lest you think I’m the only one who thinks that Obama is a socialist:
"Obama’s a socialist. That’s the view of 55% of American voters, according to a new poll. And this isn’t coming from a Republican pollster.
It comes from Democracy Corps, a polling group started by life-long Democratic operative James Carville and his partner Stan Greenberg. When the group asked 1,000 voters in mid-June how well the term “socialist” fits President Obama, 55% said “well” or “very well.”
With all of that said. I don’t think that Obama is a socialist dream. Socialist want far more than Obama has done. But Obama is smart enough to realize that if he pushed for more not only wouldn’t he have gotten it but instead of 55% of the nation thinking he’s a socialist it would have probably been 75%.
Beyond that he’s also the most inexperienced modern day President that we’ve had. But that’s another issue.
Long story but a good look at beck. Unfortunately it humanizes him a little bit. But it also gets at a question i’ve had about him all along. Does he really believe it all? Are these really his causes? Or does he really just enjoy being on television and being an entertainer? Seems like with his personality and background and all that he enjoys the grandeur and theatrics of it all at least as much as he enjoys the politics and causes and everything else.
Long story but a good look at beck. Unfortunately it humanizes him a little bit. But it also gets at a question i’ve had about him all along. Does he really believe it all? Are these really his causes? Or does he really just enjoy being on television and being an entertainer? Seems like with his personality and background and all that he enjoys the grandeur and theatrics of it all at least as much as he enjoys the politics and causes and everything else. [/quote]
I just skimmed the article it was very good thanks for posting it. He obviously believes what he’s saying, and he enjoys saying it. Only a really talented actor could cry on que (I hated that). He’s a decent guy who correctly believes that we are on the wrong path in this country and I don’t just mean politically. How can anyone deny that we’re on the wrong path when 48 million Americans are on food stamps. He talks as much about values as he does politics. Repeatedly claiming that we’ve lost our way. He’r right! How can anyone disagree with him when he implores people to spend more time with their family and make your life worth something. And he also says to check the facts for yourself. Liars usually don’t encourage you to check up on them.
I get it though he can be way over the top, but lying? NOPE.
I don’t think he’s as much of a socialist as some would like him to be, or maybe he himself would be if he could get away with it. For example is there any question that the health care bill would look far different if he had his way?
[/quote]
So, at the same time “we’ve never had a President who has been this far left,” and Obama would like to be much more socialist “if he could get away with it?” What is your basis for this assumtion outside of Glenn Beck’s radically false raving and ranting about it?[/quote]
Oops, there you go again. You have to prove that Beck raves falsly. I claim he tells the truth and have debunked all the nonsense posted. Do you have more nonsense that I don’t know about you’d like to post that I can debunk?
Or, you could just admit that you don’t like Beck for two other reasons: 1. He acts like a jerk sometimes. 2. He is on the opposite side of the fence and you basically disagree with him. Other than that YOU GOT NOTHIN!
[/quote]
stop avoiding questions ZEB!!
chomskyan directed that question to you, not beck.
so what do you base your opinion about obama being a socialist?[/quote]
Maybe when I get my question answered I’ll be in the mood to answer questions. Do you want to play? Tell me where Beck lied about something of significance.
[/quote]
I dont watch beck and I am not taking part of your discussion about him. what I want answered is why keep calling obama and hes comrades socialist/marxist. what do you base this on?
show me how the obama administrations policys have made america move towards socialism.
and btw: I would be really happy if obama did push for socialist policy, but I am not seeing it. so I am not afraid to find about the truth.
[/quote]
I fully understand that he’s not as far left as you’d like him to be, or probably as much as he’d like to be. But you saw where his leftist policies have gotten the democratic party and our country.
Since you seem civil and not attempting to argue that Glenn Beck is a liar (eye roll) I’ll answer your question.
Obama’s socialst leanings go pretty deep.
“Obama attended socialist conferences in the 1980’s and lectured his family about the benefits of socialism. after attending these conferences.” Washington Post
"He went to a socialist conferences at Cooper Union and African cultural fairs in Brooklyn and started lecturing his relatives until they worried he’d become “one of those freaks you see on the streets around here.”
Source: New York Daily News
“Obama attended meetings with the “Chicago Democratic Socialists of America”
From their website: 'Our mission is to establish democratic socialism as a political force in the United States and around the world by training and mobilizing socialist activists to participate in a vibrant and diverse socialist organization at both the local and the national level.”
Two teachers that highly influenced Obama’s mother’s life taught about Communism and Marxism. And as we now know his mother was the strongest influence in his early life. This is what he said about her: “the dominant figure in my formative years. The values she taught me continue to be my touchstone when it comes to how I go about the world of politics.” Chicago Tribune. We won’t get into the beliefs of his half crazed father
Obama Endorsed Bernie Sanders, the only openly socialist senator in the US Senate. Granted you don’t have to be a socialist to endorse someone, but then again it doesn’t help your cause if you’re trying to run from the label.
Obama gave the eulogy at Socialist Leader Saul Mendelson’s Funderal. I didn’t read about George Bush or even Bill Clinton attending.
The Chicago Democratic Socialist Party Endorsed Obama.
Obama wants to normalize relations with Communist Socialist Cuba. This is the first President to my memory that wants to do this. All the others, even democrats Johnson, Carter and Clinton wanted nothing to do with this.
I think you can put it together from here:
1-Massive government spending. Expanding our national debt to over 13 trillion! That’s more than big spending GW Bush did in eight years time.
2-Extending government aid to those who do not work for it.
3-Expanding government at a faster rate (per days in office) than any other President
4-Massive take overs and loans to business so that control can be consolodated.
5-National health care-the biggest government program (and consequently take over) in the history of the our country. By the way 67% of the people did NOT WANT this program, but socialist Obama pushed it through a democratic house and senate anyway - he will pay for that ni a matter of about 3 weeks in the mid-term elections.
6-Increasing taxes on everyone beginning January 1st. But we knew this was coming when he slapped Joe the Plumber on the back and told him to share the wealth.
7-His disdain for business of every size large and small is unprecedented.
9-Obama spent 800 billion on a failed stimulus package. Since then 2.8 million more jobs have been lost. His large (socialist) government “jobs programs” have been a resounding failure.
Lest you think I’m the only one who thinks that Obama is a socialist:
"Obama’s a socialist. That’s the view of 55% of American voters, according to a new poll. And this isn’t coming from a Republican pollster.
It comes from Democracy Corps, a polling group started by life-long Democratic operative James Carville and his partner Stan Greenberg. When the group asked 1,000 voters in mid-June how well the term “socialist” fits President Obama, 55% said “well” or “very well.”
With all of that said. I don’t think that Obama is a socialist dream. Socialist want far more than Obama has done. But Obama is smart enough to realize that if he pushed for more not only wouldn’t he have gotten it but instead of 55% of the nation thinking he’s a socialist it would have probably been 75%.
Beyond that he’s also the most inexperienced modern day President that we’ve had. But that’s another issue.
[/quote]
ok a couple of questions to get to the bottom of this.
what was the debt before he took over?
why would a socialliberal party like the democrats have a socialist as their president.
If he is a socialist or as smart as some say, why did he not go for a socialized health care system instead of the garbage you got?
the marxists have a history of antimilitarism and antiimperialism, why then dont he take the troops home from afganistan.
Ok lets say you are right, that he is a selfproclaimed marxist. does it influence the politics in your country in any importent way? the congress or the senate its not socialist, so its impossible for him to get any genuin socialist reform trough there. And what about does who owns the big corporations and that without no doubt have alot of power in america, why would they allow such an agenda taking place. My point is that it doesnt make any difference if obama is a socialist or not, he is not able to make america into a socialist country.
and last, I would say that taking a softer stance against cuba is a sign of intelligence. what do your country gain from a hostile policy against cuba?
I don’t think he’s as much of a socialist as some would like him to be, or maybe he himself would be if he could get away with it. For example is there any question that the health care bill would look far different if he had his way?
[/quote]
So, at the same time “we’ve never had a President who has been this far left,” and Obama would like to be much more socialist “if he could get away with it?” What is your basis for this assumtion outside of Glenn Beck’s radically false raving and ranting about it?[/quote]
Oops, there you go again. You have to prove that Beck raves falsly. I claim he tells the truth and have debunked all the nonsense posted. Do you have more nonsense that I don’t know about you’d like to post that I can debunk?
Or, you could just admit that you don’t like Beck for two other reasons: 1. He acts like a jerk sometimes. 2. He is on the opposite side of the fence and you basically disagree with him. Other than that YOU GOT NOTHIN!
[/quote]
stop avoiding questions ZEB!!
chomskyan directed that question to you, not beck.
so what do you base your opinion about obama being a socialist?[/quote]
Maybe when I get my question answered I’ll be in the mood to answer questions. Do you want to play? Tell me where Beck lied about something of significance.
[/quote]
I dont watch beck and I am not taking part of your discussion about him. what I want answered is why keep calling obama and hes comrades socialist/marxist. what do you base this on?
show me how the obama administrations policys have made america move towards socialism.
and btw: I would be really happy if obama did push for socialist policy, but I am not seeing it. so I am not afraid to find about the truth.
[/quote]
I fully understand that he’s not as far left as you’d like him to be, or probably as much as he’d like to be. But you saw where his leftist policies have gotten the democratic party and our country.
Since you seem civil and not attempting to argue that Glenn Beck is a liar (eye roll) I’ll answer your question.
Obama’s socialst leanings go pretty deep.
“Obama attended socialist conferences in the 1980’s and lectured his family about the benefits of socialism. after attending these conferences.” Washington Post
"He went to a socialist conferences at Cooper Union and African cultural fairs in Brooklyn and started lecturing his relatives until they worried he’d become “one of those freaks you see on the streets around here.”
Source: New York Daily News
“Obama attended meetings with the “Chicago Democratic Socialists of America”
From their website: 'Our mission is to establish democratic socialism as a political force in the United States and around the world by training and mobilizing socialist activists to participate in a vibrant and diverse socialist organization at both the local and the national level.”
Two teachers that highly influenced Obama’s mother’s life taught about Communism and Marxism. And as we now know his mother was the strongest influence in his early life. This is what he said about her: “the dominant figure in my formative years. The values she taught me continue to be my touchstone when it comes to how I go about the world of politics.” Chicago Tribune. We won’t get into the beliefs of his half crazed father
Obama Endorsed Bernie Sanders, the only openly socialist senator in the US Senate. Granted you don’t have to be a socialist to endorse someone, but then again it doesn’t help your cause if you’re trying to run from the label.
Obama gave the eulogy at Socialist Leader Saul Mendelson’s Funderal. I didn’t read about George Bush or even Bill Clinton attending.
The Chicago Democratic Socialist Party Endorsed Obama.
Obama wants to normalize relations with Communist Socialist Cuba. This is the first President to my memory that wants to do this. All the others, even democrats Johnson, Carter and Clinton wanted nothing to do with this.
I think you can put it together from here:
1-Massive government spending. Expanding our national debt to over 13 trillion! That’s more than big spending GW Bush did in eight years time.
2-Extending government aid to those who do not work for it.
3-Expanding government at a faster rate (per days in office) than any other President
4-Massive take overs and loans to business so that control can be consolodated.
5-National health care-the biggest government program (and consequently take over) in the history of the our country. By the way 67% of the people did NOT WANT this program, but socialist Obama pushed it through a democratic house and senate anyway - he will pay for that ni a matter of about 3 weeks in the mid-term elections.
6-Increasing taxes on everyone beginning January 1st. But we knew this was coming when he slapped Joe the Plumber on the back and told him to share the wealth.
7-His disdain for business of every size large and small is unprecedented.
9-Obama spent 800 billion on a failed stimulus package. Since then 2.8 million more jobs have been lost. His large (socialist) government “jobs programs” have been a resounding failure.
Lest you think I’m the only one who thinks that Obama is a socialist:
"Obama’s a socialist. That’s the view of 55% of American voters, according to a new poll. And this isn’t coming from a Republican pollster.
It comes from Democracy Corps, a polling group started by life-long Democratic operative James Carville and his partner Stan Greenberg. When the group asked 1,000 voters in mid-June how well the term “socialist” fits President Obama, 55% said “well” or “very well.”
With all of that said. I don’t think that Obama is a socialist dream. Socialist want far more than Obama has done. But Obama is smart enough to realize that if he pushed for more not only wouldn’t he have gotten it but instead of 55% of the nation thinking he’s a socialist it would have probably been 75%.
Beyond that he’s also the most inexperienced modern day President that we’ve had. But that’s another issue.
[/quote]
ok a couple of questions to get to the bottom of this.
what was the debt before he took over?[/quote]
Off the top of my head something like 10 billion give or take. He raised it about 3 billion in 19 months - YIKES
You’d have to ask them. My guess is that Obama was looking pretty darn good as a candidate and I feel that the party has drifted toward socialsim, but that’s just my guess.
As I told you, what he wanted and what he was going to get were two different things. As it is 67% of the country hates that bill AND the way it was passed. Repeal is a real possibility.
He promised during the campaign that he would do just that. My guess is that when you actually get to the seat of power you realize that doing what he promised could be catastrophic for the country and make him look bad in the eyes of the voters. Again, I’m guessing as I’m not privy to any inside information.
Well that will be a first for this message board. No one and I mean NO ONE ever says that anyone else is right once they disagree with them.
Yes in every way.
But you are forgetting about the democratic drift toward socialism that has been taknig place since the early 1960’s. In fact, if John Kennedy were alive today he would have to be a republican based upon his policies. That’s how far we’ve drifted. Pelosi and Reed are so far left they can’t see the light of day or the fact that being so far left has seriously harmed them and their party.
Well, I think we can agree on your last sentence. The voters are rising up and the world will soon see what America thinks of Obama and his socialist leanings come election day.
[quote]and last, I would say that taking a softer stance against cuba is a sign of intelligence. what do your country gain from a hostile policy against cuba?
[/quote]
You might say that but Castro is a fiend who has tortured and jailed thousands of Cubans. Only a socialist leaning President would want open relations with Cuba. As I’ve said None of the other democrats from Johnson to Carter to Clinton wanted such a thing.
You might say that but Castro is a fiend who has tortured and jailed thousands of Cubans. Only a socialist leaning President would want open relations with Cuba. As I’ve said None of the other democrats from Johnson to Carter to Clinton wanted such a thing.
[/quote]
Fidel and raul are different though. The former presidents didn’t want to deal with fidel. I too think it might be the right time to open up these relations. What would you say would be the downside of such a relationship.
Raul has been reported in the past to be a bit of a hardliner, but he has also opened the country to things like dvd players, microwaves and other semi luxuries and shown himself to be a little more progressive. And Cuba seems pretty stable, so it might be good tot est the waters.
[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
You’re making me pull my hair out.
When YOU and ZEB claim that Beck is telling the truth and his info is legit, YOU need to be able to back it up.
It’s on Beck’s supporters to verify, just as much as it is on his opposition to invalidate.
If you don’t have to prove Beck is right, then why should I have to prove he’s wrong?
If you try to argue this simple point one more time I’ll have no choice but to assume you’re one of the dumbest fucking people to ever walk the Earth.[/quote]
You really don’t get it. There are plenty of Beck related threads in PWI where we do indeed show he is telling the truth (about specific topics). Asking me to prove to you that everything he has said is true is an almost impossible task. It would take thousands of man hours.
On the other hand asking you to prove he is a liar is an order of magnitude easier. Just provide us with a single instance where he grossly distorts the truth or flat out lies. If you watch Beck, even if only from time to time, then you should be able to do so with fairly little effort.
It is a slimey move to say that I have to prove he is telling the truth more than you have to prove he is lying. Surely if you think he lies and distorts the truth then you have seen him lie and distort the truth at least once? Look to hold your position you must have supporting evidence. If you can’t provide that supporting evidence then your position looks weak. I can mention a few areas where I think he was telling the truth…but there are already PWI threads on the topics…and that doesn’t PROVE he doesn’t lie.
In summary:
I am asking you to show a specific. You are asking me to show something general. Thus the burden rests on you because it is the much easier task.
[quote]florelius wrote:
and btw: I would be really happy if obama did push for socialist policy, but I am not seeing it. so I am not afraid to find about the truth.
[/quote]
You have to understand that the American socialist is not the same as the European socialist. Just like the American right wing is nothing like the European right wing.
You can’t look at Obama, see that he is to the right of Marx, and complain that he isn’t a socialist. From an American point of view he is. From a European point of view he is fairly moderate.
The health care bill is 2000 pages. Unless one bothers to read all of it how are we to know that something crazy like veterinary isn’t provided for in it? That bill is so complex that even members of congress who are voting on it haven’t read all of it. I have difficulty believing that is a major issue for Beck, as I’ve never heard him talk about it.
In this post you are accusing him of saying things but you don’t provide any evidence that he has. You expect us to just take the word of someone who has an axe to grind against him. Even if it all is true you are missing obvious desperation of this post. The author of this post is concentrating on trivial minutia and you are posting in the false hope that it will discredit everything he has ever said.
You need to show Beck is wrong on the major issues like how our educational system misleads or lies to our about our history. ie FDR’s new deal. In school I was taught the propaganda that it had saved us from the great depression. FDR’s policies are now widely understood to have deepened and prolonged the depression. This is significant because Obama is pursuing the same failed policies as FDR.
Instead of throwing unsupported, petty, gotchya’s at us you need to disprove the major issues that Beck has educated us about. You need to bring some fire or stay in your nursery because right now you are bringing the weak sauce.
[/quote]
Umm…no I don’t there Sifu. ZEB asked Hulk repeatedly for examples that Beck had lied and even a few posts ago said “I am flat out stating that out of all the things that Beck has said he has never lied. That is my supposition.”
I was tired of reading this without Hulk actually posting anything and the back and forth about who the burden of proof was on, so I posted these. ZEB refuted the first set, good for him. No answer yet to these.
I posted a specific example, if YOU are a follower of this douche then YOU need to take your happy ass down to the interwebs and listen to his Nov. 12th show and dispute that he even said that, then YOU need to read the bill and disprove it. That’s how this works.
I don’t need to show what Beck is wrong about on major issues, are you dense? The crux of the arguments on here is that he LIED. I actually think Beck is right on some of the issues he talks about, wrong on others, still a douche either way.
Now go pull out your bottle of weak sauce from your nursery, wipe the drool you get from watching Beck off your face and do some actual research and refute what I wrote “sifu.”[/quote]
I’m not going to go sorting through hours of radio shows trying to find whatever it is that you are whining about. I’ll go out of my mind listening to that much talk radio. Beck himself said something last week that sums up how I feel about what he is saying. He said he has a batting average with what he says, some of it he gets wrong but a lot of it he is right.
If he gets something wrong like citizenship at birth that is a minor issue compared to the important things he teaches us. For example people make fun of Beck for educating people about progressives but it was Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton who stated their her ideology was early twentieth century progressive. Hillary figured she could prey upon peoples ignorance of progressivism all Beck is doing is pulling back the curtain so people can see what they are dealing with. Somehow this makes him a douche, which is bullshit.
There is nothing on Becks show that makes me want to drool. Not even the occasions when my favorite Pinoy blesses us with an appearance.
I don’t think he’s as much of a socialist as some would like him to be, or maybe he himself would be if he could get away with it. For example is there any question that the health care bill would look far different if he had his way?
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So, at the same time “we’ve never had a President who has been this far left,” and Obama would like to be much more socialist “if he could get away with it?” What is your basis for this assumtion outside of Glenn Beck’s radically false raving and ranting about it?[/quote]
Oops, there you go again. You have to prove that Beck raves falsly. I claim he tells the truth and have debunked all the nonsense posted. Do you have more nonsense that I don’t know about you’d like to post that I can debunk?
Or, you could just admit that you don’t like Beck for two other reasons: 1. He acts like a jerk sometimes. 2. He is on the opposite side of the fence and you basically disagree with him. Other than that YOU GOT NOTHIN!
[/quote]
stop avoiding questions ZEB!!
chomskyan directed that question to you, not beck.
so what do you base your opinion about obama being a socialist?[/quote]
Maybe when I get my question answered I’ll be in the mood to answer questions. Do you want to play? Tell me where Beck lied about something of significance.
[/quote]
I dont watch beck and I am not taking part of your discussion about him. what I want answered is why keep calling obama and hes comrades socialist/marxist. what do you base this on?
show me how the obama administrations policys have made america move towards socialism.
and btw: I would be really happy if obama did push for socialist policy, but I am not seeing it. so I am not afraid to find about the truth.
[/quote]
Well you could start by reading Obama’s autobiography. Where Obama himself said that when he was in college the marxists, socialists and radicals were the people who he gravitated to. His mother was a socialist, his father was a socialist/anti-colonialist. His grand parents attended the little red church. Obama was raised by socialists. There is a wealth of material that shows that at a minimum Obama has socialist leanings.
Here read this article written by Dinesh D’Souza. According to D’Souza Obama is an anti-colonialist who has the world view of a 1950’s Luo tribesman. A lot of the things that D’Souza says make sense of things that Obama has done.
Full disclosure; I’m down with socialism, I’m a big leftie. I don’t like Glenn Beck and for the most part don’t watch his show outside of the rare occasion because, as he is an influencial figure, I’d like to understand what he has to say that people are drawn to. I’m not hear to argue that the man is some big liar, because I don’t watch him often, but what I will say is that I’ve seen enough to know that the overall theme of his show is deceptive. As a socialist, I couldn’t disagree with another person more than Milton Friedman, but Friedman was a sensible man that presented his views in a rational, civil way. While I might have disagreed with Friedman, I still have respect for the man because of the way he presented his views.
I don’t think Beck is dangerous because I disagree with his views, I think he is dangerous because he directs peoples’ anger in the wrong direction. He plays on peoples’ emotions and as I understand it, would like us to believe that illegal immigrants, gays, socialists, dogs-on-health care, etc. are all out to get us and that people must defend themselves from these outside threats. He encourages a black and white, “either your with us or your against us,” mentality that is not productive to solving our problems. This entire nation is in some serious trouble, demonizing one group or another is not the way to get ourselves out of trouble.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
1-Massive government spending. Expanding our national debt to over 13 trillion! That’s more than big spending GW Bush did in eight years time.
[/quote]
During Bush’s tenure we saw our national debt double from about 5 trillion to just under 10 trillion. Obama’s still got 2 trillion to go before he catches up to Bush; and Obama’s deficit went from like 400 billion to a little over 1 trillion largely because of a worldwide economic collapse, not because Obama turned our government in to socialism. If you want my opinion, Bush and Obama both fucked up big time on the budget, but considering the circumstances Obama is not massively worse than Bush.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
2-Extending government aid to those who do not work for it.
[/quote]
This is an example of one of my biggest problems with Beck’s theme. The claim that social welfare programs are backrupting the country is absurd; and, while the claim of moral hazard (giving people stuff makes them lazy) has some legitimacy, isn’t applied to all parties.
Food stamps cost the government around $50-60 billion in 2009 and we give hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars to the defense indsutry every year to develop weapons and other technology. Why is that not seen as a form of welfare? There are many large companies that wouldn’t survive for ten minutes without getting money from our government. Until around the late 1980’s the entire cost of developing computer technology was paid for by the American taxpayer, so would it be fair to say that telecommunications companies received welfare too? Is spending tens of billions of dollars subsidizing corn over the last decade not welfare? How about tax breaks for multi-billion dollar oil companies? In 2009, ExxonMobil made $19.42 billion in profit all while paying ZERO corporate income tax for the year; I would argue the moral hazard from giving government aid to ExxonMobil in 2009 is far greater than the moral hazard from all the government aid that poor people got in 2009.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
4-Massive take overs and loans to business so that control can be consolodated.
[/quote]
What does this even mean? How was control control consolidated? Name me a business that was taken over; as far as I’m aware through all the bailouts, only businesses that even had demands put on them was the auto industry.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
5-National health care-the biggest government program (and consequently take over) in the history of the our country. By the way 67% of the people did NOT WANT this program, but socialist Obama pushed it through a democratic house and senate anyway
[/quote]
This is entirely misleading. How is handing out a fine to people that don’t buy private companies’ health insurance a government takeover? I’d argue that what we got was more of a private, corporate takeover.
And people didn’t like the health care bill because the public option was gutted. They didn’t want the reform that passed, they actually wanted MORE government control in the bill than what they got.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
6-Increasing taxes on everyone beginning January 1st. But we knew this was coming when he slapped Joe the Plumber on the back and told him to share the wealth.
[/quote]
Bush is at fault for that. Obama has literally done nothing with regard to tax policy. All he is doing is following through with Bush’s policy, yet he still gets the blame?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
7-His disdain for business of every size large and small is unprecedented.
[/quote]
How and when? Wall Street is largely to blame for a worldwide economic collapse, so he calls them some bad names in his speeches while handing them 800 billion dollars and caving to almost all of their demands on financial reform, and this should be seen as contempt?
I’m not trying to come at you ZEB, I like to keep things civil, but you don’t understand what true socialism really is. Based on what I’ve seen you say, you see socialism as presented though Glenn Beck’s eyes, rather than what it truely means.
Strict government control over everything (like the USSR) is totalitarian socialism. Just because the USSR has socialist in its name doesn’t mean it’s a good reprentation of socialism; just as the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea isn’t exactly a good reprentation of anything democratic. Equating the USSR with all things socialist is like equating China today with all things capitalist. This capitalism comparison is obviously absurd because while China has capitalist elements, but it is still a totalitarian state. Socialism is a dirty word to many people in this country because they misunderstand what true socialism stands for.
Even though I call myself a socialist, I’m not under the impression that if we take down the capitalism sign and put up a socialist one that the country will instantly become paradise. The world isn’t black and white; things can barely ever be as direct as “you are either with us or your against us.” I’d like to see more socialist policies, but more importantly I’d like to see people understand socialism for what it really is rather accept the Beck-like assumption that socialism = evil terrible things.
[quote]Chomskyian wrote:
This is an example of one of my biggest problems with Beck’s theme. The claim that social welfare programs are backrupting the country is absurd; and, while the claim of moral hazard (giving people stuff makes them lazy) has some legitimacy, isn’t applied to all parties.
[/quote]
And what is the unfunded liability of medicare and social security? Can you honestly tell me they aren’t frightening fucking figures?
What has dropped California to its knees?
[quote]Chomskyian wrote:
Food stamps cost the government around $50-60 billion in 2009 and we give hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars to the defense indsutry every year to develop weapons and other technology. Why is that not seen as a form of welfare?
[/quote]
Because like it or not a country needs a strong defense industry. It is a necessity. While some form of welfare is required the level the US currently has is messed up. There are people who have lived for 20+ years on food stamps. That is messed up and certainly not a necessity. Welfare should be a temporary measure; not a way of life.
[quote]Chomskyian wrote:
so would it be fair to say that telecommunications companies received welfare too?
[/quote]
They did. Directly through lower taxes. They were meant to provide everyone with amazing broadband. They didn’t. It is criminal but the government won’t do anything about it.
[quote]Chomskyian wrote:
How about tax breaks for multi-billion dollar oil companies? In 2009, ExxonMobil made $19.42 billion in profit all while paying ZERO corporate income tax for the year; I would argue the moral hazard from giving government aid to ExxonMobil in 2009 is far greater than the moral hazard from all the government aid that poor people got in 2009.
[/quote]
Except of course ExxonMobil paid plenty of income tax. From the 2009 annual report we see:
ExxonMobil paid 15 billion in corporate income tax. Which is very low for ExxonMobil. For instance in 2008 they paid >$35 billion. They also paid >$20 billion in sales taxes in 2009.