Depends on the dog/owner relationship. But I do believe dogs have the capacity to love, and not because you feed them.
My dog loves me because my mom feeds him, yet if she and I are in the kitchen together he attacks her to protect me.
Yes I am a goober because my mommy feeds my dog.
She also does my laundry.
.
[quote]JLone wrote:
I never really thought of it as love that’s a word we (humans) made up. If I had to guess I would think my dog “cares” for me and I love her but in the end she is a dog. I read a book a couple years ago that was very interesting called, “Inside of a Dog: What Dogs See, Smell, and Know.” I would recommend it to anyone that thinks they are a dog expert, you will learn at least 1 new thing, I promise. [/quote]
Excellent book recommendation, and that story that hit the news wires earlier this week re: imaging dogs brains is insightful.
The point: they’ve evolved with us for quite some time now and have become experts at reading/ mirroring our own energy, emotions etc. No reason to call that “love” as JLone mentioned, but its significance and apparent magnitude are pretty darn cool.
[quote]kineticj wrote:
[quote]Der_Steppenwolfe wrote:
Our dog is a canine fundamentalist. He is fanatically devoted to one owner- my father.[/quote]
More than likely he sees your dad as Alpha, but you are still part of his pack. I would bet that he would jump to protect you if you were threatened in his presence.[/quote]
Some dogs through breeding have “one-owner” mentalities and some do great with multiple “alphas.” To use generalizations take a hunting breed like a German-Shorthair vs. a working breed like a German Shepard. Both breeds originated in the same part of the world but for obvious reasons were breed to take orders differently. If your sweeping a field for upland game you need a dog that will take queues from all hunters. If a dog on the police force took orders from the bad guys it wouldn’t be very affective.
Try mimicking your fathers commands with the same tone of voice and mannerisms. My brother has a couple dogs that are stubborn as mules but fall in line when I’m around.
My last dog I had was a funny fucker and athletic as hell. He was an ass to people he didn’t know but he was still a fun dog to own. He would jump 6 feet or higher to pop balloons at birthday parties, would regularly hop the backyard fence that was 4 feet high. Once my sister threw me off a raft in the middle of a river. I tried to swim to shore but I was a shitty swimmer at the time. So my dog hops in the water and swims right for me, I couldn’t believe that he knew I was in trouble. Us both being bad swimmers didn’t help either of our causes he ended up swimming right by me and hopped on shore. His doggy paddle was hilarious he would head bob with it just emerged like a submarine. I remember it to this day because he thought of saving me he just couldn’t due to his build he was a boxer pitbull.
Stockholm syndrome. . .
I don’t know about “love” as we define it, but they definitely have the capacity for adoration and loyalty which is not dependent on feeding.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I don’t know about “love” as we define it, but they definitely have the capacity for adoration and loyalty which is not dependent on feeding.[/quote]
Why wouldn’t you define that as love?
I think dogs feel emotions more deeply than humans. Including love.
I wonder if human beings feel love.
I guess you can stick any label on a dopamine rush you want to, but a dogs feelings of “giver of food, leader of pack” is probably more stable.
I wish they still had the episode streaming so people can see it. On the PBS show NOVA, they had an episode called dogs decoded and it was about their bonds with humans. Really cool and interesting.
[quote]on edge wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I don’t know about “love” as we define it, but they definitely have the capacity for adoration and loyalty which is not dependent on feeding.[/quote]
Why wouldn’t you define that as love?
I think dogs feel emotions more deeply than humans. Including love.[/quote]
It seems you’re reaching for something profound, so please tell us more.
I received this in an email.
Subject: A Father, a Daughter and a Dog- A true story by Catherine Moore
A Father, a Daughter and a Dog- A true story by Catherine Moore
“Watch out! You nearly broad sided that car!” My father yelled at me. “Can’t you do anything right?”
Those words hurt worse than blows. I turned my head toward the elderly man in the seat beside me, daring me to challenge him. A lump rose in my throat as I averted my eyes. I wasn’t prepared for another battle.
“I saw the car, Dad . Please don’t yell at me when I’m driving…”
My voice was measured and steady, sounding far calmer than I really felt.
Dad glared at me, then turned away and settled back. At home I left Dad in front of the television and went outside to collect my thoughts… dark, heavy clouds hung in the air with a promise of rain. The rumble of distant thunder seemed to echo my inner turmoil. What could I do about him?
Dad had been a lumberjack in Washington and Oregon . He had enjoyed being outdoors and had reveled in pitting his strength against the forces of nature. He had entered grueling lumberjack competitions, and had placed often. The shelves in his house were filled with trophies that attested to his prowess.
The years marched on relentlessly. The first time he couldn’t lift a heavy log, he joked about it; but later that same day I saw him outside alone, straining to lift it… He became irritable whenever anyone teased him about his advancing age, or when he couldn’t do something he had done as a younger man.
Four days after his sixty-seventh birthday, he had a heart attack. An ambulance sped him to the hospital while a paramedic administered CPR to keep blood and oxygen flowing.
At the hospital, Dad was rushed into an operating room. He was lucky; he survived. But something inside Dad died. His zest for life was gone. He obstinately refused to follow doctor’s orders. Suggestions and offers of help were turned aside with sarcasm and insults. The number of visitors thinned, then finally stopped altogether. Dad was left alone…
My husband, Dick, and I asked Dad to come live with us on our small farm. We hoped the fresh air and rustic atmosphere would help him adjust.
Within a week after he moved in, I regretted the invitation. It seemed nothing was satisfactory. He criticized everything I did. I became frustrated and moody. Soon I was taking my pent-up anger out on Dick. We began to bicker and argue.
Alarmed, Dick sought out our pastor and explained the situation. The clergyman set up weekly counseling appointments for us. At the close of each session he prayed, asking God to soothe Dad’s troubled mind.
But the months wore on and God was silent. Something had to be done and it was up to me to do it.
The next day I sat down with the phone book and methodically called each of the mental health clinics listed in the Yellow Pages. I explained my problem to each of the sympathetic voices that answered in vain.
Just when I was giving up hope, one of the voices suddenly exclaimed, “I just read something that might help you! Let me go get the article…”
I listened as she read. The article described a remarkable study done at a nursing home. All of the patients were under treatment for chronic depression. Yet their attitudes had proved dramatically when they were given responsibility for a dog…
I drove to the animal shelter that afternoon… After I filled out a
questionnaire, a uniformed officer led me to the kennels. The odor of disinfectant stung my nostrils as I moved down the row of pens Each contained five to seven dogs. Long-haired dogs, curly-haired dogs, black dogs, spotted dogs all jumped up, trying to reach me. I studied each one but rejected one after the other for various reasons too big, too small, too much hair. As I neared the last pen a dog in the shadows of the far corner struggled to his feet, walked to the front of the run and sat down. It was a pointer, one of the dog world’s aristocrats. But this was a caricature of the breed.
Years had etched his face and muzzle with shades of gray. His hip bones jutted out in lopsided triangles. But it was his eyes that caught and held my attention. Calm and clear, they beheld me unwaveringly.
I pointed to the dog. “Can you tell me about him?” The officer looked, then shook his head in puzzlement. “He’s a funny one. Appeared out of nowhere and sat in front of the gate. We brought him in, figuring someone would be right down to claim him. That was two weeks ago and we’ve heard nothing. His time is up tomorrow.” He gestured helplessly.
As the words sank in I turned to the man in horror. “You mean you’re going to kill him?”
“Ma’am,” he said gently, “that’s our policy. We don’t have room for every unclaimed dog.”
I looked at the pointer again. The calm brown eyes awaited my
decision. “I’ll take him,” I said. I drove home with the dog on the
front seat beside me… When I reached the house I honked the horn twice. I was helping my prize out of the car when Dad shuffled onto the front porch… “Ta-da! Look what I got for you, Dad !” I said excitedly.
Dad looked, then wrinkled his face in disgust. “If I had wanted a dog I would have gotten one. And I would have picked out a better specimen than that bag of bones. Keep it! I don’t want it” Dad waved his arm scornfully and turned back toward the house.
Anger rose inside me… It squeezed together my throat muscles and pounded into my temples. “You’d better get used to him, Dad. He’s staying!”
Dad ignored me… “Did you hear me, Dad ?” I screamed. At those words Dad whirled angrily, his hands clenched at his sides, his eyes narrowed and blazing with hate. We stood glaring at each other like duelists, when suddenly the pointer pulled free from my grasp. He wobbled toward my dad and sat down in front of him. Then slowly, carefully, he raised his paw…
Dad’s lower jaw trembled as he stared at the uplifted paw confusion replaced the anger in his eyes. The pointer waited patiently. Then Dad was on his knees hugging the animal.
It was the beginning of a warm and intimate friendship. Dad named the pointer Cheyenne . Together he and Cheyenne explored the community. They spent long hours walking down dusty lanes. They spent reflective moments on the banks of streams, angling for tasty trout. They even started to attend Sunday services together, Dad sitting in a pew and Cheyenne lying quietly at his feet.
Dad and Cheyenne were inseparable throughout the next three years. Dad’s bitterness faded, and he and Cheyenne made many friends. Then late one night I was startled to feel Cheyenne 's cold nose burrowing through our bed covers. He had never before come into our bedroom at night… I woke Dick, put on my robe and ran into my father’s room. Dad lay in his bed, his face serene. But his spirit had left quietly sometime during the night.
Two days later my shock and grief deepened when I discovered Cheyenne lying dead beside Dad’s bed. I wrapped his still form in the rag rug he had slept on. As Dick and I buried him near a favourite fishing hole, I silently thanked the dog for the help he had given me in restoring Dad’s peace of mind.
The morning of Dad’s funeral dawned overcast and dreary. This day looks like the way I feel, I thought, as I walked down the aisle to the pews reserved for family. I was surprised to see the many friends Dad and Cheyenne had made filling the church… The pastor began his eulogy. It was a tribute to both Dad and the dog who had changed his life.
And then the pastor turned to Hebrews 13:2. “Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.”
“I’ve often thanked God for sending that angel,” he said.
For me, the past dropped into place, completing a puzzle that I had not seen before: the sympathetic voice that had just read the right article… Cheyenne 's unexpected appearance at the animal shelter .
…his calm acceptance and complete devotion to my father. . and the proximity of their deaths. And suddenly I understood. I knew that God had answered my prayers after all.
Life is too short for drama or petty things, so laugh hard, love truly and forgive quickly. Live While You Are Alive. Forgive now those who made you cry. You might not get a second time.
And if you don’t send this to at least 4 people —nobody cares… But do share this with someone. Lost time can never be found.
God answers our prayers in His time…not ours…
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]on edge wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I don’t know about “love” as we define it, but they definitely have the capacity for adoration and loyalty which is not dependent on feeding.[/quote]
Why wouldn’t you define that as love?
I think dogs feel emotions more deeply than humans. Including love.[/quote]
It seems you’re reaching for something profound, so please tell us more.
[/quote]
LOL Not really, I just think dogs have stronger emotions. Look at how dogs display joy or fear. It looks lie they experience those emotions more strongly than humans. I don’t see any reason not to extrapolate that to love too.
[quote]on edge wrote:
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]on edge wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I don’t know about “love” as we define it, but they definitely have the capacity for adoration and loyalty which is not dependent on feeding.[/quote]
Why wouldn’t you define that as love?
I think dogs feel emotions more deeply than humans. Including love.[/quote]
It seems you’re reaching for something profound, so please tell us more.
[/quote]
LOL Not really, I just think dogs have stronger emotions. Look at how dogs display joy or fear. It looks lie they experience those emotions more strongly than humans. I don’t see any reason not to extrapolate that to love too.[/quote]
People are taught from birth to regulate and temper their emotions, both positive and negative, or at least to regulate the expression of them. Dogs are only taught to temper displays of excitement, which lead to jumping and barking and general nuisancery.
[quote]orion wrote:
I wonder if human beings feel love.
I guess you can stick any label on a dopamine rush you want to, but a dogs feelings of “giver of food, leader of pack” is probably more stable. [/quote]
That is actually a very good point.
Do many of us even know what “love” is?
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]on edge wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I don’t know about “love” as we define it, but they definitely have the capacity for adoration and loyalty which is not dependent on feeding.[/quote]
Why wouldn’t you define that as love?
I think dogs feel emotions more deeply than humans. Including love.[/quote]
It seems you’re reaching for something profound, so please tell us more.
[/quote]
Most humans base relationships on fulfillment of needs. You get something from someone…therefore, you keep them close or communicate with them often.
Someone more advanced than us would say our attraction to others is purely chemical and need based…because we are the ones who gave our understanding of emotions more significance and depth.
I will admit, in my life I have found that there are relationships based on something unexplainable…where it is more than just about what you get from someone…but like you were supposed to meet that person.
I don’t know…I think if your dog actually lives with you (and not just outside most of the time)…maybe that bond does equal more than basic chemical reactions or need based actions.
I pity those who equate love with dogish excitment.
If you think Fluffy loves you, how about abstaining from feeding him? Let the neighbour do it, along with the walkies.
It’s an utterly dependant, servile-bred creature.
No wonder relationships don’t last.
Bonus Quesion:
If Jon T-Man plays “dog” with Jessica Biel, doing everything her dog does to a ‘T’ (barking, acting excited, going for walks, doing lame tricks etc) would she feed and love/fuck him?
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I pity those who equate love with dogish excitment.
If you think Fluffy loves you, how about abstaining from feeding him? Let the neighbour do it, along with the walkies.
It’s an utterly dependant, servile-bred creature. [/quote]
The same could be said about many human relationships. There are many men screwing women (and the reverse) for bills to get paid and nothing more…
Would you argue that such a couple is in love?
Also, in contrast to the four-legged leech, humans can, at least in theory, walk away on their own terms.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Would you argue that such a couple is in love?
Also, in contrast to the four-legged leech, humans can, at least in theory, walk away on their own terms.[/quote]
Most people in this country call marriages arrangements of love when the divorce rate clearly shows otherwise.
No one said it is rational.
I am simply stating that it is.
How would you ever know the difference without a brain scan looking in from the outside?
Please explain.