Does Shakespeare Piss You Off?

Off Topic
61

Ok, Shakespeare is how I made my living for the past several years and I gotta throw in a few things.

To the OP, nice work on saying I don’t get it. Almost all of the work we do to perform Shakespeare is saying “What the fuck am I saying here?”, so you’re actually one step ahead of those folks who pretend to know. The rest is figuring out where to stand and who to stab/marry at the end of the play.

That being said, don’t be satisfied there 'cause 1) You’ll probably fail the class, and 2) You’ll make all the fat girls look right.
PM me if you need Shakespeare translation help.

As for R&J being his worst work, I gotta disagree. Try reading Henry VIII. The Two Gentlemen of Verona is pretty weak as well. R&J has all kinds of stuff to get behind; hopefully a little hottie that you get to watch fall for a bit of a putz (which gives us all hope) and some fantastic “love” poetry between the two. And when it all goes tits up there’s some great poetry as well.

If that doesn’t work for you there’s fights, and lot of 'em. Hard to appreciate in class, but rent the Baz Luhrman(sp?) dvd-the one with Claire Danes and that skinny DiCaprio guy and you’ll get a better sense of the violence.

If that doesn’t work for you Mercutio makes all kinds of dick and pussy jokes. They’re really funny, once you figure them out.

Yes, it absolutely sucks the way Shakespeare is presented in HS. Forced on you like it’s gospel to the exclusion of all others.

As for the wierd “drama set”; the skull carrying, MacBeth quoting, black wearing pimply bunch, don’t count as “actors”. They get all that shit beat out of them (figuratively) in the first year of theatre school or the first time they realize acting’s a job and not a substitute for a personality.

Ok…I think that’s all from me…

62

Wait, one more thing…If you consider where English Theatre was before Shakespeare (and Marlowe) and then look at what he put together it is a pretty amazing thing. The theatre in England went from “Gammer Gurton’s Needle” and “Ralph Roister Doister” to “Hamlet” in a VERY short time, which is something that makes studying Shakespeare worth the brain cramps.

63

[quote]deanosumo wrote:
To the OP, if you are struggling with Shakespeare, persist. Once you get the ‘flow’ of the language, it will start to make more sense to you. Also, get a copy with plenty of notes which explain the language (some copies have the text on the left page, and the commentary on the right).

‘Romeo and Juliet’ is a good play to start your Shakespeare journey on- the language is fairly straightforward by Shakespeare standards and most people know something of the plot and characters, even if they have never read the play before, because it’s such a part of our culture. It is far from being my favorite play- that is ‘Othello’ but it is rewarding, with some effort.[/quote]

I personally think you give the OP too much credit. I am not a Romeo and Juliet fan in terms of reading every passage of the play, but the basic story and conflict is genius considering no one put it down on paper like that before. I respect the work even though I wouldn’t sit around and simply read a copy of it in my spare time now.

I think it SHOULD be a part of your mental library. I also think that people who completely write it off as useless and sit back with their arms folded exclaiming how they simply don’t get it and don’t care are pretty shallow (intellectually). That is simply my opinion.

I consider it no different than those who claim that college isn’t for everyone. Well, it may not be (as there have been successful and intelligent people who never went), but would I really want to hang out with the average person who makes that statement with regards to themselves?

This has nothing to do with fat chicks and everything to do with building a solid foundation of knowledge to pull from. I can honestly say, with the exception of Algebra, there isn’t any information that I have ever learned that is completely useless. But then, I was the type of person to pull out an encyclopedia as a kid just to learn about a topic that may have popped into my mind. Maybe I’m the strange one.

I had an assistant who made comments degrading an artist I had playing on a mix cd. He said it sounded like crap. He then bobbed his head to a John Legend song right afterwards and said it was great. The song by John Legend used the background sample of the first artist…Nina Simone, and even had her voice singing in the background. It was even the same song I had playing earlier. People like that annoy me…because they see the world flatly. I don’t see how they could ever be trendsetters if they simply follow trends.

64

similarly your post I find difficult to read

I think approximately half our words were invented by shakespeare (or more likely marlow)

the language IS weird because it is old … many generations ago … like I said, I am struggling with YOUR writing and you are what 2 generations past me?

I recommend you hire the film Romeo and Juliet by Baz … with Leonardo in it … you might then understand it. If you have to learn it it can’t hurt

65

[quote]deanosumo wrote:
To the OP, if you are struggling with Shakespeare, persist. Once you get the ‘flow’ of the language, it will start to make more sense to you. Also, get a copy with plenty of notes which explain the language (some copies have the text on the left page, and the commentary on the right). [/quote]

Hear, hear!

[quote]t3h_Squirr3l wrote:
MacBeth, The Tempest, Othello, King Lear, Hamlet and Richard III are awesome…[/quote]

And for the OP in particular, I would add Much Ado About Nothing.

66

[quote]TShaw wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
One of the drama pukes I went to high school with just won the Oscar for best actor. Not that it has anything to do with the topic but it is interesting.

Zap, Are you from Fairport, NY? (I’m thinking you’re referring to P.S.Hoffman.)[/quote]

Yes and yes. The funny thing is I barely remember him in HS and I am sure he does not remember me.

67

[quote]julia87 wrote:
he had the best moustache.[/quote]

You are thinking of Barney Fife.

68

[quote]PGA wrote:
m0dd3r wrote:
anyone else find it ironic that someone who goes by the name Beowolf [sic] referred to Shakespeare as using “shitty old English”?

Or the fact that his handle is Beowolf not Beowulf…[/quote]

hence my use of the [sic], i.e. I know it’s spelled wrong but I’m using it that way to point out the irony and humor in the situation.

70

[quote]BarneyFife wrote:

Call me stupid if you want, but when we have to read 5 shakespear plays to pass senior english, but knowing even ONE of the amendments to the constituion is not a requirement, there is a problem with the school system.[/quote]

Well, either your school system really sucks or you just forgot you had to learn it. I went to HS in VA and we had to know the preamble, the Bill of Rights and every f-ing Amendment (it was tested). U.S. Govt was one of the handful of courses that the state required to be passed for graduation.

It took one guy 3 years to pass it - don’t ask me why it was so difficult for him. He did get the biggest ovation at graduation though.

One other thing to consider about Shakespeare - if so many people throughout history think it is worthwhile reading, it just may be. Just because some people think squats aren’t important for building your body, doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be a part of everyone’s training.

DB

71

I can’t place it.

[quote]TheWookie wrote:
He was friends with Pumkinhead. Remember who that nickname was associated with?

Zap Branigan wrote:
TShaw wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
One of the drama pukes I went to high school with just won the Oscar for best actor. Not that it has anything to do with the topic but it is interesting.

Zap, Are you from Fairport, NY? (I’m thinking you’re referring to P.S.Hoffman.)

Yes and yes. The funny thing is I barely remember him in HS and I am sure he does not remember me.

[/quote]

72

A lot of people don’t get Shakespeare; mind you, a lot of people don’t get Dr Seuss either.

Often the key to understanding Shakespeare is finding the best medium for you to translate the imagery/ ideas and narrative he’s into something that is comprehensible and meaningful for you.

Take Romeo and Juliet, for example. The best, most resonant version of it for me was a production by the Lyon Opera ballet to Prokofiev’s score.

Consider this, that even if you don’t understand the language, Shakespeare was writing about universal themes and behaviours, thus you can bet dollars to Donuts that when Romeo turned up under Juliet’s balcony he wasn’t there for a cup of chamomile tea.

Several people have noted that Shakespeare wrote about the human condition, and was, arguably, the greatest observer of such. If you’re interested, take a look at a book titled: Shakespeare: The Invention of the Human by Harold Bloom.

I would also recommend the movies of Kenneth Branagh: especially Much Ado About Nothing as it is possibly the most approachable, although nothing can apporach the grandeur of his Hamlet for dramatic effect.

I would also highly recommend Richard the Third, starring Ian McKellan which places the play in a monarcho-fascist context.

A couple of points

[1] Shakespeare’s comedies aren’t meant to be ‘funny’ the definition of a comedy way back yonder was that the entire cast didn’t end up dead at the end of it…

[2] A lot of the ideas for Shakespeares plays are far from original, however, his treatment of the subject and his language/ use of action etc are what makes them stand out.

[3] Not all of Shakespeare’s plays are ‘GREAT’ - in fact some are downright clunky; the Aforementioned Two Gentlemen of Verona, Troilus and Cressida {shudder), Timon of Athens all make me somewhat Bilious - however, the great plays are great for good reason.

…and that’s alll I have to say about that…

73

I don’t sit myself down each night and read the guy’s works if that’s what you mean. I wouldn’t even say I’m a fan of Shakespeare.

But put it this way…Shakespeare was said to have a vocabulary of over 3000 words that he used frequently.
The average person uses 1/4 of that.

Everything else aside, I respect that sort of genius.

p.s. I’ve had this mirror in my bedroom since I was in high school which has stone around it. In the stone it quotes a piece from Act II, Scene II of Romeo & Juliet:
“My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep: The more I give to thee the more I have: for both are infinite.”

Say what you want, but it helps me remember something that all should about love.

And lets see if anything you do or say in this life is remembered hundreds of years from now!

74

I already chimed in, but it is totally worth studying Shakspeare throughly because of the many dirty jokes and such that can at least entertain you until the next one. It’s the only reason I went to my step sister’s high school to see thier presentation of “A Midsummer’s Night Dream” unfortunately the other people in the audience didn’t get any of the jokes, and for that matter, most of the actors didn’t either!

75

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Do people that proudly proclaim their ignorance piss you off?[/quote]

There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity. --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

I see Goethe agrees with me.

77

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I can honestly say, with the exception of Algebra, there isn’t any information that I have ever learned that is completely useless.
[/quote]

You didn’t have to any sort of physics in pre-med(or whatever it was you were before dentistry school)???

78

[quote]BarneyFife wrote:

I have read a couple of shakespeare plays. I do not think that they have any more or less value then other literary works. They are a good example of english poetry and english plays of that period. I don’t beleive that shakespeare should be required reading for all.

What I find to be an attrocity is that several shakespeare plays were required reading in high school english classes, but I was never required to read the declaration of independence, or the constitution, or the emancipation proclomation, or FDR’s speech after pearl harbor, or winston churchill’s “fight them on the beaches, in the streets of london…etc etc etc” speech.
Call me stupid if you want, but when we have to read 5 shakespear plays to pass senior english, but knowing even ONE of the amendments to the constituion is not a requirement, there is a problem with the school system.[/quote]

They are more than a good example of English plays at that time; they are the best of all time. Shakespeare taught humanity what it means to be human. Unfortunately the lesson is lost on many these days.

I’m not calling you stupid but your beef should be with the teaching of history. I also had to know the Bill of Rights, among other things, to pass history.

79

[quote]relativelyfunguy wrote:
We just read through his romeo and juliet piece today in my class. The writing pretty much annoys me just because the fact of the matter is most people in the class don’t know what’s going on even though they try and act like they do, and the teacher just ends up telling everyone what goes on anyways. The only person who really comprehends what’s going on is the fat girl in the corner who has her own hardback book version of every play Shakespeare has ever written. It pissed me off cuz we were in groups today, and after every section, we’d have to discuss what happened, and i have 3 annoying girls in my group, one who is a total blob, all over the place, the other is huge too and snappy, and the other is just weird and looks like she should know a lot but knows shit about it, pretending she does. They give me mean looks when I just admit I have no clue what was just read, because it’s true, the shit is stupid. I can’t stand these fat girls whose lives are based only around these stupid readings, they have nothing better to do with themselves, so they figure they might as well get good at reading something pointless. Am I the only one who dislikes this crap so much?[/quote]

Sounds like an opportunity for a trade of services. Tell the girls you’ll help them slim down if they’ll help you understand Shakespeare.

80

[quote]TShaw wrote:
And he uses SO many cliches.[/quote]

I actually laughed out loud at this.

You can always tell another English teacher…

81

[quote]Winger11 wrote:

As for the wierd “drama set”; the skull carrying, MacBeth quoting, black wearing pimply bunch, don’t count as “actors”. They get all that shit beat out of them (figuratively) in the first year of theatre school or the first time they realize acting’s a job and not a substitute for a personality.

[/quote]

Ha, ha… Well said!

And don’t you love the ones on Inside the Actor’s Studio during the Q & A portion of the show when they introduce themselves to the guest, “Hi, my name is Janet, and I’m a third year actor”.

I’m always thinking, “really? How much did your last ‘acting’ gig pay? SAG card or not, you’re still a student, jackass!”

82

[quote]nephorm wrote:
PGA wrote:
No, we’ve heard it in countless other threads as to why…

No need to hate.[/quote]

No matter how much they’re impressed, they still go out and sleep with bikers and drug dealers.