Does HIV Cause AIDS?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

Let’s see … if you follow the party line, you get funding. If you don’t, you wind up working at Wendy’s. What’s more likely for a scientist to publish – there is a connection or not?

I rememeber reading (I’ll have to hunt it down) how AIDS was redefined, in Africa, so that more people were diagnosed with AIDS. The definition of the disease was changed.

Gents, I don’t know where the truth lies. But when government and special interests are involved, I tend to assume they’re all liars, thieves, and murderers.

62

Lorisco, I really hope you are just trying to stir the shit as usual, because you are starting to sound a few crackers short of a stack as well.

I’ll tell you what, you and H2 can go stick yourselves with needles found in the sharps bucket at the local hospital and see just how mythical the AIDS virus is for yourself.

Just get your hep shots up to date and go to town, click your heels together a few times and you’ll surely be in no danger bucky.

63

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Gents, I don’t know where the truth lies. But when government and special interests are involved, I tend to assume they’re all liars, thieves, and murderers. [/quote]

H2 will happily claim the entire medical community, on an international scale, is spoofing this, calling into question the integrity of thousands upon untold thousands of highly educated health care professionals who are in-fact in a position to know.

Yeah… keep talking buddy, you’ve flown the coop bud. Maybe you and Lorisco can hold hands and go to the zoo if you behave and have some cookies with all the nice little animals. Would you like that?

I really hope your students are smart enough to patronize you to get their grades and simply reject everyting you have to say.

64

[quote]vroom wrote:
I really hope your students are smart enough to patronize you to get their grades and simply reject everyting you have to say.[/quote]

I hope he teaches P.E.

65

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I rememeber reading (I’ll have to hunt it down) how AIDS was redefined, in Africa, so that more people were diagnosed with AIDS. The definition of the disease was changed.
[/quote]

This caught my eye, and rather than heckle you some more, perhaps I can help you.

You see, redefining the limits of how we diagnose AIDS does not mean that what causes the disease has changed. Changing the definition to include a larger segment of people who are eligible for treatment is, in common sense language, a pretty good fucking idea if we are to halt the spread of the Black Plague of the 21st century.

I found the article you read on the NEXUS website that talked about this. Wow. Maybe they should get a doctor, or at least, a lab tech like me to fact-check for them before they print an utter pile of crap for an article. These guys were slavering over the fact that you can diagnose an AIDS infection in the presence of a negative HIV test.

BIG HUGE HINT: When you have AIDS, your immune system goes to complete shit. That means the cells which make the antibodies to HIV are gone, which = negative HIV test. In my field, we call this a false negative. That’s why we evaluate AIDS on the basis of clinical factors, as well as lab testing.

Please try to understand something else: the face of HIV infection does not have a consistent presentation. Some folks are violently ill, some are nearly symptom-free. If we are going to err in this matter, it only make sense to err on the side of caution. I’d much rather have a few false positives than a shitload of false negatives who are walking around with HIV/AIDS and don’t even know it.

The fact of the matter is, we have treatments that help. If you have ever seen the pics of Sub-Saharan Africa and the people who are coughing themselves to death, and just the sheer number of people who are infected with this virus, it is mind-boggling. Mind-boggling.

I like the fact that you can question the motives of special interest groups, and that you have your doubts about the motivations of some scientists when it comes to the “publish or perish” axiom, but please understand that the dudes who say the HIV is a myth are either functionally retarded, or have darker motives of their own.

I’m sorry if it sounds cooler to you that there is some worldwide conspiracy to this saga… it simply isn’t the truth. I see AIDS patients with my own eyes. They are HIV positive, up until the end. I do the tests myself. What more do you want?

66

[quote]vroom wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Gents, I don’t know where the truth lies. But when government and special interests are involved, I tend to assume they’re all liars, thieves, and murderers.

H2 will happily claim the entire medical community, on an international scale, is spoofing this, calling into question the integrity of thousands upon untold thousands of highly educated health care professionals who are in-fact in a position to know.

Yeah… keep talking buddy, you’ve flown the coop bud. Maybe you and Lorisco can hold hands and go to the zoo if you behave and have some cookies with all the nice little animals. Would you like that?

I really hope your students are smart enough to patronize you to get their grades and simply reject everyting you have to say.[/quote]

Vroom,

This is simply beyond stupid. I find a site that claims all this is a fraud, I suspect that government funding might influence outcomes, and you write this shit.

You assholes also keep saying the same bs about my students. How would you dumb fucks know anything at all about any of this? Vroom, go back to drooling on the groceries while you bag 'em up.

67

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
vroom wrote:
I really hope your students are smart enough to patronize you to get their grades and simply reject everyting you have to say.

I hope he teaches P.E.

[/quote]

I teach Physics and Calculus.

Vroom is a bag boy at a Kroger in Toronto.

You see AIDS patients every day? And they’re all HIV positive? How’d they get that way?

68

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I teach Physics and Calculus.[/quote]

Phew, thank goodness. That hopefully doesn’t give you much chance to inject your own warped sense of the world into your work.

H2, the sad part is that you appear to WANT to believe the stuff you found. See if you can figure out what the agenda of those that promote this stuff might actually be…

You are supposedly a bright boy – figure it out.

Finally, is Kroger even in Canada?

69

[quote]vroom wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I teach Physics and Calculus.

Phew, thank goodness. That hopefully doesn’t give you much chance to inject your own warped sense of the world into your work.

H2, the sad part is that you appear to WANT to believe the stuff you found. See if you can figure out what the agenda of those that promote this stuff might actually be…

You are supposedly a bright boy – figure it out.

Finally, is Kroger even in Canada?[/quote]

I’m glad you figured out that some of what I write is intended as humor (or is it ‘humour’?).

Look, I found a site with a big list of prominent scientists who say the whole AIDS thing is a scam. If 40 biologists and virologists said something, wouldn’t you tend to believe they may have a point? Your doctor tells you something, you tend to believe him/her, right?

So, despite all the name calling, I’m glad I started this thread. I learned from it, as I hope you did.

And, I hope Kroger is not into Canada. Their store layouts suck! :slight_smile:

HH

70

H2, 40 is pretty small number in the scope of the world. Have all 40 of them explicitly endorsed the site, or has it coopted their statements, perhaps out of context, to arrive at the grand total of 40?

What exactly makes them prominent? Have they published recently in respected peer-reviewed journals – on this topic? Are they getting huge research grants for various realted topics? Have they actually won awards in this field just recently?

Finding some people with an opinion and apparent credentials is what the Internet era is all about. We’ve never had it so cheap for people to get on their soapbox and publish propaganda to the world. I hope we all get good at recognizing it.

71

[quote]vroom wrote:
Finding some people with an opinion and apparent credentials is what the Internet era is all about. We’ve never had it so cheap for people to get on their soapbox and publish propaganda to the world. I hope we all get good at recognizing it.[/quote]

Head, read this above paragraph carefully. It sums up pretty much everything that there is in this “HIV is a myth” argument.

I suppose we can find a list of scientists who think that evolution is a hoax? Even though the scientific evidence is so overwhelming as to make any naysayers categorically ignorant?

Of course we can. There are all kinds of people in this world. Some of them have degrees in scientific fields. Don’t be their fool… unless that is what you want for your destiny, in which case I wish you well in your silliness.

PS I still think you’re fun/goofy to read, you crazy mofo.

72

[quote]MODOK wrote:
If HIV virus is not causing AIDS, please point out the causative agent!
[/quote]

What rule says there has to be a SINGLE causative agent?

73

[quote]vroom wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
You guys are slamming headhunter because he is pushing an unpopular non-PC version of the truth, not because he is wrong. You all follow the crowd so damn much you can’t even think for yourselves.

No, we are slamming him because he is pushing a theory that has no scientific basis behind it.
[/quote]

Don’t you all know that AIDS is God’s punishment for us believing the earth revolves around the sun instead of the other way around?

Galileo himself died of an “unknown fever” because of his false, unscientific beliefs. Obviously his immune system was compromised by something.

(end sarcasm)

74

[quote]vroom wrote:
No, we are slamming him because he is pushing a theory that has no scientific basis behind it.[/quote]

Nobody who posted in the first 2 pages had the slightest interest in examining any scientific proof and reaching their own conclusions. They stated as much. This is what made them loudmouthed drones. Lorisco was quite correct.

75

I am home sick today and came across this thread. I never cease to be blown away by the stupidity of people posting on the internet.

76

[quote]johnny boy wrote:
I am home sick today and came across this thread. I never cease to be blown away by the stupidity of people posting on the internet.[/quote]

Not necessarily stupid. He is simply questioning what other people tell him.

Is that so wrong? DO YOU KNOW FOR A FACT THAT AIDS EXISTS? No, unless you know someone who is afflicted with the disease or know someone who researches this you have no reason to believe it.

I do believe it. But that is simply because I have been taught that way. I have studied biology in many forms for a while and continue to do so at univeristy so I have the proof I seek to believe in AIDS.

To headhunter I say: Good job! Don’t believe anything because it is hyped up! Even if lots of people believe it doesn’t mean its true. Look for your own answers. (I would suggest you start reading medical journals and other scientific publications to get the facts before they are watered down and/or misconstrued by the media.)

77

yeah great job! Questioning authority is cool.
All those doctors and pharmaceutical researchers are up to some shady stuff. They usually all set aside 2-3 hours of secret time per day where instead of working with patients or researching disease and treatment, they plan how to misinform and hide the truth.

YOU ARE AN IDIOT.
Find an AIDS patient. Fuck them. Go die.

78

And my girl is a doctor and I am a pharmaceutical researcher so …I KNOW AIDS exists…
And for the guy who started the thread is that a point karate or taekwondo avatar??? Effective point karate or taekwondo…now there is something that doesn’t exist.
HOLY CRAP

79

HIV = Human Immunodeficiency Virus
AIDS = Acquired Immune deficiency Syndrome

HIV is a virus that attacks the bodies immune system, Causing AIDS.
Im not sure but i think AIDS can be caused by many things such as the HIV virus, taking immunosuppressive drugs and possibly leukemia, im not to sure but im sure there many things that can.

80

[quote]I_am_here wrote:
HIV = Human Immunodeficiency Virus
AIDS = Acquired Immune deficiency Syndrome

HIV is a virus that attacks the bodies immune system, Causing AIDS.
Im not sure but i think AIDS can be caused by many things such as the HIV virus, taking immunosuppressive drugs and possibly leukemia, im not to sure but im sure there many things that can. [/quote]

Let me help you.

The term “AIDS” IS specific to end-stage HIV infection. The term we use to denote a weakened immune system is “immunocompromised”. This is what happens to folks with cancer who are on heavy regiments of chemotherapy, etc.

We could say that AIDS is a more “politically correct” term. Back in the beginning, it was known as GRID (Gay-Related Immune Disease) because we didn’t know the causative agent, and in the early history of the virus’ run through our population, it was mainly confined to gay men. That all changed in the early 80’s when it was shown not to be something caused by gayness, but was a heretofore unknown bloodborne pathogen. GRID was changed to AIDS to more effectively describe the true nature of the virus.

The guys who think that HIV is a myth are still stuck on the fact that this started out as an infection in the gay population. I would suspect that this might have something to do with the fact that they could maybe possibly have a very slight chance of perhaps being a bunch of ignorant homophobic morons who will grasp at any straw to confirm their twisted worldview that they are somehow superior to everybody that they look down upon.

But hey, I’m just being an armchair psychologist here, aren’t I? :slight_smile: