Do You Support the Troops?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
162

[quote]harris447 wrote:
PGJ wrote:

No, No we won’t get around to it. You can’t launch wars on countries just because you don’t agree with how they are run. When you do, they all come back after you.

Besides this, your policemen routine runs up the debt, and destroys national morale. This is how empires fall- from the inside. When did America go from the protector of freedom in this country to the invading army of soverign countries?

You are a fool if you think we can police the world.

I don’t like being the world’s police, but it’s a job that needs to be done and nobody but America and the UK seem to be willing to do anything. The freakin’ UN is supposed to be the world’s police. What a piece of crap that organization is. I wish the US would pull out of that kangaroo court.

<<You can’t launch wars on countries just because you don’t agree with how they are run. >>

If they threaten us, why not? France and Germany could care less if we get attacked, so why should we wait for international permission to take care of our enemies? I’d like this nation to get back to the old Teddy Roosevelt “don’t even think of screwing with the USA” attitude and start flexing some muscle. I’m sick of two-bit, piss-ant, thug dictators pushing the world around. When Islamic pirates captured a US Navy ship in Tripoli in the late 1800’s and held it’s crew as prisoners, the US didn’t back down and try to negotiate…it sent in the Marines who marched 1000 miles across the N.African desert and captured Tripoli (Lybia), rescued the sailors and raised the Stars and Stripes over the city as a symbol of occupation. I’m so tired of pussy politicians and liberal hippies who want to just put two fingers in the air and say “peace, man” and hope the extremist will go away. Iraq wants peace and they want America there to help get rid of the “insurgents”.

I have a theory that the USA could be invaded by the freakin Soviets, or Cubans, or whoever and some group of pacifist idiots would be completely against defending this nation with force.

Yeah, I’m so sick of piss-ant thugs pushing the world around, too.

Thank god in two years, at least one will be out of office.
[/quote]

Gees Harris, haven’t you been humiliated enough? Go save the whales or something.

Who would you like to be President next? And what would that person do differently that will solve all the problems in the world? Serious question.

163

[quote]PGJ wrote:

Who would you like to be President next? And what would that person do differently that will solve all the problems in the world? Serious question.

[/quote]

Launch an Apollo/Manhattan programm to end the US? dependency of foreign oil in the next ten years, make a shitload of money by selling that technology to Europe and emerging Asian nations, while seeing the feudal Middle Eastern regimes crumble.

164

I was in the other thread with quotes and I came across some from Americas past which should maybe strike a cord with some of you. And maybe for some of those who’se patriotism is lacking may re-awaken it.

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
Ernest Hemingway

Ernest Hemingway ‘The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.’ I agree with the second part."

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants”

Thomas Jefferson

“Save in the defense of my home state I shall never again draw my sword”

General Robert E. Lee

“Give me liberty, or give me death”
Patrick Henry

“We’ll stick a boot in your ass, because that’s the American Way.”

Toby Keith

How does this apply to the curent topic. I guess that is in the eye of the beholder.

Once upon a time there was a powerful, strong, benevolent, honorable, and respectable American man, and American society. A society that defended their brother, and fellow citizen, and those less fortunate in the world. I would like to believe that is not a fairy tale, but that is reality. Current Reality.

How can we say we believe in freedom and education, and human rights and dignity, when we allow people to be oppressed, abused and murdered. We can not. This is why I believe the soldiers of the USA are performing gods work at home and abroad every day. You may call me incorrect, but we are NOT god. It can only be done one step, one person, one bad guy at a time. This is what the quotes meant. You can disagree with me, but can you disagree with Jefferson, or Emerson, or Lee?

165

[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
I was in the other thread with quotes and I came across some from Americas past which should maybe strike a cord with some of you. And maybe for some of those who’se patriotism is lacking may re-awaken it.

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
Ernest Hemingway

Ernest Hemingway ‘The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.’ I agree with the second part."

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants”

Thomas Jefferson

“Save in the defense of my home state I shall never again draw my sword”

General Robert E. Lee

“Give me liberty, or give me death”
Patrick Henry

“We’ll stick a boot in your ass, because that’s the American Way.”

Toby Keith

How does this apply to the curent topic. I guess that is in the eye of the beholder.

Once upon a time there was a powerful, strong, benevolent, honorable, and respectable American man, and American society. A society that defended their brother, and fellow citizen, and those less fortunate in the world. I would like to believe that is not a fairy tale, but that is reality. Current Reality.

How can we say we believe in freedom and education, and human rights and dignity, when we allow people to be oppressed, abused and murdered. We can not. This is why I believe the soldiers of the USA are performing gods work at home and abroad every day. You may call me incorrect, but we are NOT god. It can only be done one step, one person, one bad guy at a time. This is what the quotes meant. You can disagree with me, but can you disagree with Jefferson, or Emerson, or Lee? [/quote]

Well said. I was trying to avoid the Christian approach to avoid the whole misunderstanding that christians, for some reason, aren’t supposed to fight. I believe we have the moral obligation to defend human rights whenever we are able. God made this nation the most powerful and influential society in all of history.

That was not by accident or simply by the hands of man. We are obligated to use our God-given blessings to help others. However, we can not do everything. The libs will fire back with “what about (insert African nation), and China, and N. Korea…” We are dealing with them, just in a different way.

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”

This is EXACTLY why I joined the Marines. I don’t hate anybody. I love my family, my country, and my God more than I love my life. When your own life becomes central to your existance, you are already dead. Why are you even here still? If you have nothing in your life worth fighting and dieng for, what’s the purpose of extending your life on this brutal planet? I joined the military to protect my family, my nation, and it’s Christian heritage (we still openly pray on a regular basis in the military and the ACLU can go piss up a rope).

Those terrorist would just as soon blow up an elementary school as they would a military convoy (they already did this exact thing in Russia about a year ago, remember?). THAT is something I wish liberals would understand. Someone has to go get these guys, and my bags are packed.

166

[quote]PGJ wrote:
harris447 wrote:
PGJ wrote:

No, No we won’t get around to it. You can’t launch wars on countries just because you don’t agree with how they are run. When you do, they all come back after you.

Besides this, your policemen routine runs up the debt, and destroys national morale. This is how empires fall- from the inside. When did America go from the protector of freedom in this country to the invading army of soverign countries?

You are a fool if you think we can police the world.

I don’t like being the world’s police, but it’s a job that needs to be done and nobody but America and the UK seem to be willing to do anything. The freakin’ UN is supposed to be the world’s police. What a piece of crap that organization is. I wish the US would pull out of that kangaroo court.

<<You can’t launch wars on countries just because you don’t agree with how they are run. >>

If they threaten us, why not? France and Germany could care less if we get attacked, so why should we wait for international permission to take care of our enemies? I’d like this nation to get back to the old Teddy Roosevelt “don’t even think of screwing with the USA” attitude and start flexing some muscle. I’m sick of two-bit, piss-ant, thug dictators pushing the world around. When Islamic pirates captured a US Navy ship in Tripoli in the late 1800’s and held it’s crew as prisoners, the US didn’t back down and try to negotiate…it sent in the Marines who marched 1000 miles across the N.African desert and captured Tripoli (Lybia), rescued the sailors and raised the Stars and Stripes over the city as a symbol of occupation. I’m so tired of pussy politicians and liberal hippies who want to just put two fingers in the air and say “peace, man” and hope the extremist will go away. Iraq wants peace and they want America there to help get rid of the “insurgents”.

I have a theory that the USA could be invaded by the freakin Soviets, or Cubans, or whoever and some group of pacifist idiots would be completely against defending this nation with force.

Yeah, I’m so sick of piss-ant thugs pushing the world around, too.

Thank god in two years, at least one will be out of office.

Gees Harris, haven’t you been humiliated enough? Go save the whales or something.

Who would you like to be President next? And what would that person do differently that will solve all the problems in the world? Serious question.

[/quote]

Harris,

Please argue for Al Sharpton or Louis Farra-con. I need to do my ab workout again!
:
HH

167

[quote]orion wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Who would you like to be President next? And what would that person do differently that will solve all the problems in the world? Serious question.

Launch an Apollo/Manhattan programm to end the US? dependency of foreign oil in the next ten years, make a shitload of money by selling that technology to Europe and emerging Asian nations, while seeing the feudal Middle Eastern regimes crumble. [/quote]

Goddamit Orion,

You’re beginning to make lots of sense to me. Am I going senile?
:slight_smile:
HH

168

[quote]orion wrote:
Launch an Apollo/Manhattan programm to end the US? dependency of foreign oil in the next ten years, make a shitload of money by selling that technology to Europe and emerging Asian nations, while seeing the feudal Middle Eastern regimes crumble. [/quote]
A wonderful idea, but there is just too much money put into American politics by the established energy industry to get such a project off the ground before the market requires an alternative be made available in order to sustain the American way of life.

169

Haha there is something wrong when America can’t receive critism without being silenced by the masses of brainwashed and brainless idiots who blindly follow and naively believe that everything the government does is pro-USA?

170

[quote]BigPaul wrote:
orion wrote:
Launch an Apollo/Manhattan programm to end the US? dependency of foreign oil in the next ten years, make a shitload of money by selling that technology to Europe and emerging Asian nations, while seeing the feudal Middle Eastern regimes crumble.
A wonderful idea, but there is just too much money put into American politics by the established energy industry to get such a project off the ground before the market requires an alternative be made available in order to sustain the American way of life.[/quote]

No, if that was really true the very idea of America would be dead.

If a real people?s tribune/demagogue/JFK was able to sell you that idea, it would be a reality in ten years.

Oil companies can be shamed into submission, too… :slight_smile:

Unpatriotic, un-American, you know the drill…

171

[quote]PGJ wrote:
It has become very fasionable to say “I support the troops”. This is great, and being on active duty I really appreciate the support.

However, there are a lot of folks out there who say they support us, but then hate the President and hate the mission. You can’t have it both ways. We are all volunteers. We know what we are getting in to. Not a single person has joind the military in the last 5 years without knowing they would probably end up in Iraq or Afghanistan.

So, how can someone support the troops AND at the same time hate the mission and our Commander? That’s like saying I’m against abortion but support abortion doctors. Thoughts?

[/quote]

You support the troops because they serve to protect everyone’s freedom, knowing that they’re putting their lives on the line.

They don’t decide which wars to fight, they have a job to do and they go do it.

I don’t think that the abortion analog holds unless someone says that they are against all wars. Obviously some wars need to be fought (or we’d all be speaking German right now)… but that’s not for the soliders to decide.

I’m sure that a lot of soliders don’t want to be there. The Iraqi people don’t want them there anymore. The insurgents don’t want them there. A lot people all over the world don’t want them to be there. But they can’t leave or Iraq will descend into chaos and would be even worse (like when… so they do their duty and they stay.

Even if you’re against the war, how can you not respect that?

That’s why people support the troops.

172

[quote]PGJ wrote:
harris447 wrote:
PGJ wrote:

No, No we won’t get around to it. You can’t launch wars on countries just because you don’t agree with how they are run. When you do, they all come back after you.

Besides this, your policemen routine runs up the debt, and destroys national morale. This is how empires fall- from the inside. When did America go from the protector of freedom in this country to the invading army of soverign countries?

You are a fool if you think we can police the world.

I don’t like being the world’s police, but it’s a job that needs to be done and nobody but America and the UK seem to be willing to do anything. The freakin’ UN is supposed to be the world’s police. What a piece of crap that organization is. I wish the US would pull out of that kangaroo court.

<<You can’t launch wars on countries just because you don’t agree with how they are run. >>

If they threaten us, why not? France and Germany could care less if we get attacked, so why should we wait for international permission to take care of our enemies? I’d like this nation to get back to the old Teddy Roosevelt “don’t even think of screwing with the USA” attitude and start flexing some muscle. I’m sick of two-bit, piss-ant, thug dictators pushing the world around. When Islamic pirates captured a US Navy ship in Tripoli in the late 1800’s and held it’s crew as prisoners, the US didn’t back down and try to negotiate…it sent in the Marines who marched 1000 miles across the N.African desert and captured Tripoli (Lybia), rescued the sailors and raised the Stars and Stripes over the city as a symbol of occupation. I’m so tired of pussy politicians and liberal hippies who want to just put two fingers in the air and say “peace, man” and hope the extremist will go away. Iraq wants peace and they want America there to help get rid of the “insurgents”.

I have a theory that the USA could be invaded by the freakin Soviets, or Cubans, or whoever and some group of pacifist idiots would be completely against defending this nation with force.

Yeah, I’m so sick of piss-ant thugs pushing the world around, too.

Thank god in two years, at least one will be out of office.

Gees Harris, haven’t you been humiliated enough? Go save the whales or something.

Who would you like to be President next? And what would that person do differently that will solve all the problems in the world? Serious question.

[/quote]

If you think I’ve been “humiliated,” then fine. I’m fairly sure that has happened in the slightest.

(You haven’t been here long, but Headhunter and Jeffy aren’t exactly respected authorities.)

But perhaps that’s what happened. Maybe the new way to humiliate someone is to call them a pussy without any backup or facts about said person while screaming, “WAR IS GOOD! I BELIEVE WHAT I"M TOLD!”

And then some nonsense about pirates.

But to answer your serious question: there are a number of people I would like to see become president. I will be volunteering for Dennis Kucinich, but am not laboring under the delusion he could actually get the nomination, let alone win.

Here are his stances on the issues:

If agreeing with this man that these ideas would make the country better makes me a liberal, then, fine: I’m a liberal.

I would like a president that pays attention to his Daily Briefings.

I would like a president who hasn’t gleefully presided over hundreds of executions, some of them of underage or retarded men.

I would like a president that knew better than to cut taxes in the middle of a war.

I would like a president who knew better than to cut taxes on the wealthy and pretend the middle class was on his mind.

I would like a president who didn’t start a war based on–at best–faulty information cherrypicked to provide him with the conclusion he wanted in the first place.

I would like a president who didn’t hold hands with the leader of the nation who truly funds terror.

I would like a president who, after being informed that the worst attack upon our shores since Pearl Harbor had occurred, didn’t sit there for seven fucking minutes reading “My Pet Fucking Goat.”

There’s more, but it’s too depressing.

173

I hope the troops come home tomorrow so that they can be back here with their families instead of being over in Iraq fighting this unjust war.

Most have been fed propaganda by this administration and therefore believe they are fighting to protect America instead of securing more power for the elite of this country.

This is a story that has been told countless times.

174

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
I hope the troops come home tomorrow so that they can be back here with their families instead of being over in Iraq fighting this unjust war.

Most have been fed propaganda by this administration and therefore believe they are fighting to protect America instead of securing more power for the elite of this country.

This is a story that has been told countless times. [/quote]

You are the one believing the liberal propaganda, and buying into the same old story. The troops are defending America, they are defending you and I. They are defending your rights, and liberties. The only way to bring them home is to help them do their jobs.

175

[quote]Devil0351Dog wrote:
The best way to honor our fallen is to finish the job that they died for.

DD
[/quote]
No the best way to honor the fallen is to remember them as human beings not just the fact that they died in a war. Remember them as having had a life before becoming “The Few, the Proud…”

I am glad you and (all) your comrades are proud of the job that is being done. Being some place that you don’t want to be is the worst thing for moral. I used to wear the USMC uniform and I hated it. It was the best and worst time of my life and I am glad to not be fighting in a lame conflict (it’s not a real war) whose number one mission is to keep oil profits up. Yep, I said it!

Return in one peice and with peace.

176

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
harris447 wrote:
…

Missions might change in battle, but…no, wait: they don’t. how did the mission change during Korea, …

I will only address Korea because I don’t have time to do all the others.

The overall mission changed multiple times in Korea.

The first mission was to stop the communists.

The second mission waa to push them outof South Korea.

The third mission was to push them into China.

The fourth mission was to retreat from the Chinese and find a place to stop the Chinese advance.

Books have been written about how the mission changed and how MacArthur and Truman disagreed over what the mission should be.

MacArthur got fired over these disagreements.
[/quote]
So the original missions changed because they failed to accomplish their intent? Which is why people should be pissed; but in our case with Iraq the original intent was incorrect, so…the mission had to be changed. I fail to see this as a good thing.

177

Does anyone here know any Iraqi’s? Does anyone here know any American’s who have been to Iraq? Please speak up. I don’t know any Iraqi’s but I know A LOT of guys who have been there and are there now. I have NEVER heard one of them express regret or anger. Yes, the deployment rates right now are brutal and guys are away from family for really long periods. But the mission is acceptable to those who are doing the fighting. Don’t presume you know what the military thinks and don’t presume to know what Iraqi’s think. YOUR info is coming from reporters who’s job is to shock you (that’s what sells papers). Good news doesn’t sell. Morale in the military is really high. The warfighters are tired and could use a break, but they definately don’t want to leave immediately.

179

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
It was the best and worst time of my life and I am glad to not be fighting in a lame conflict (it’s not a real war) whose number one mission is to keep oil profits up. Yep, I said it!

Return in one peice and with peace.[/quote]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if America wanted the oil, we would have taken it. Point blank.

180

I actually know an Iraqi. He hated Sadaam, was beaten many times by his guard, and he supports us fully.

Both my brothers, many close personal friends, and acquaintances have been to Iraq and Afghanistan. Many of them volunteered to go back, and serve. The desire to serve, and be a part of something greater than one’s self is seemingly lost on a portion of our society.

181

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Way to stick white trash Toby Keith in there with some of the finest writers and political philosophers in history.[/quote]

Had to appeal to everybody. You know how it is.

182

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
harris447 wrote:
…

Missions might change in battle, but…no, wait: they don’t. how did the mission change during Korea, …

I will only address Korea because I don’t have time to do all the others.

The overall mission changed multiple times in Korea.

The first mission was to stop the communists.

The second mission waa to push them outof South Korea.

The third mission was to push them into China.

The fourth mission was to retreat from the Chinese and find a place to stop the Chinese advance.

Books have been written about how the mission changed and how MacArthur and Truman disagreed over what the mission should be.

MacArthur got fired over these disagreements.

So the original missions changed because they failed to accomplish their intent? Which is why people should be pissed; but in our case with Iraq the original intent was incorrect, so…the mission had to be changed. I fail to see this as a good thing.[/quote]

What are you talking about?

The original mission was to remove Saddam Hussien and to prevent him from acquiring/stockpiling WMDs. That mission was accomplished.