Do You Believe Major Sports are Rigged?

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:
They give the popular players help. That’s why NBA teams get good when they start picking up well-known players. The refs help them.
[/quote]

Yeah, that’s the most reasonable explanation for the phenomenon by which NBA teams get good when they pick up stars.[/quote]

He said ‘well known’ not stars [/quote]

Well-known athletes tend to be star athletes. Why is Tyler Thigpen not well-known, while Aaron Rodgers is?

There are some well-known athletes that aren’t any good (Mark Sanchez, for example). But these are the exception. Lets assume he’s talking about star athletes. Can you think of a better explanation for the phenomenon than ref-league conspiracy? I can.[/quote]

On treatment of star Player

Relationships between NBA players and referees were generally all over the board â?? love, hate, and everything in-between. Some players, even very good ones, were targeted by referees and the league because they were too talented for their own good. Raja Bell, formerly of the Phoenix Suns and now a member of the Charlotte Bobcats, was one of those players. A defensive specialist throughout his career, Bell had a reputation for being a “star stopper.” His defensive skills were so razor sharp that he could shut down a superstar, or at least make him work for his points. Kobe Bryant was often frustrated by Bell’s tenacity on defense. Let’s face it, no one completely shuts down a player of Kobe’s caliber, but Bell could frustrate Kobe, take him out of his game, and interrupt his rhythm.

You would think that the NBA would love a guy who plays such great defense. Think again! Star stoppers hurt the promotion of marquee players. Fans don’t pay high prices to see players like Raja Bell â?? they pay to see superstars like Kobe Bryant score 40 points. Basketball purists like to see good defense, but the NBA wants the big names to score big points.

If a player of Kobe’s stature collides with the likes of Raja Bell, the call will almost always go for Kobe and against Bell. As part of our ongoing training and game preparation, NBA referees regularly receive game-action video tape from the league office. Over the years, I have reviewed many recorded hours of video involving Raja Bell. The footage I analyzed usually illustrated fouls being called against Bell, rarely for him. The message was subtle but clear â?? call fouls against the star stopper because he’s hurting the game.
If Kobe Bryant had two fouls in the first or second quarter and went to the bench, one referee would tell the other two, “Kobe’s got two fouls. Let’s make sure that if we call a foul on him, it’s an obvious foul, because otherwise he’s gonna go back to the bench. If he is involved in a play where a foul is called, give the foul to another player.”

Similarly, when games got physically rough, we would huddle up and agree to tighten the game up. So we started calling fouls on guys who didn’t really matter â?? “ticky-tack” or “touch” fouls where one player just touched another but didn’t really impede his progress. Under regular circumstances these wouldn’t be fouls, but after a skirmish we wanted to regain control. We would never call these types of fouls on superstars, just on the average players who didn’t have star status. It was important to keep the stars on the floor.
Allen Iverson provides a good example of a player who generated strong reaction, both positive and negative, within the corps of NBA referees. For instance, veteran referee Steve Javie hated Allen Iverson and was loathe [sic] to give him a favorable call. If Javie was on the court when Iverson was playing, I would always bet on the other team to win or at least cover the spread. No matter how many times Iverson hit the floor, he rarely saw the foul line. By contrast, referee Joe Crawford had a grandson who idolized Iverson. I once saw Crawford bring the boy out of the stands and onto the floor during warm-ups to meet the superstar. Iverson and Crawford’s grandson were standing there, shaking hands, smiling, talking about all kinds of things. If Joe Crawford was on the court, I was pretty sure Iverson’s team would win or at least cover the spread.
Madison Square Garden was the place to be for a marquee matchup between the Miami Heat and New York Knicks. I worked the game with Derrick Stafford and Gary Zielinski, knowing that the Knicks were a sure bet to get favorable treatment that night. Derrick Stafford had a close relationship with Knicks coach Isiah Thomas, and he despised Heat coach Pat Riley. I picked the Knicks without batting an eye and settled in for a roller-coaster ride on the court.

During pregame warm-ups, Shaquille O’Neal approached Stafford and asked him to let some air out of the ball.

“Is this the game ball?” O’Neal asked. “It’s too hard. C’mon, D, let a little air out of it.”

Stafford then summoned one of the ball boys, asked for an air needle, and let some air out of the ball, getting a big wink and a smile from O’Neal.

-Tim Donaghy former league Referee [/quote]

Wasn’t he busted for gambling before he wrote his tell-all? Certainly raises issues of credibility. Not that some of this doesn’t happen – including some of it for normal psychological reasons.

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:
They give the popular players help. That’s why NBA teams get good when they start picking up well-known players. The refs help them.
[/quote]

Yeah, that’s the most reasonable explanation for the phenomenon by which NBA teams get good when they pick up stars.[/quote]

He said ‘well known’ not stars [/quote]

Well-known athletes tend to be star athletes. Why is Tyler Thigpen not well-known, while Aaron Rodgers is?

There are some well-known athletes that aren’t any good (Mark Sanchez, for example). But these are the exception. Lets assume he’s talking about star athletes. Can you think of a better explanation for the phenomenon than ref-league conspiracy? I can.[/quote]

On treatment of star Player

Relationships between NBA players and referees were generally all over the board Ã?¢?? love, hate, and everything in-between. Some players, even very good ones, were targeted by referees and the league because they were too talented for their own good. Raja Bell, formerly of the Phoenix Suns and now a member of the Charlotte Bobcats, was one of those players. A defensive specialist throughout his career, Bell had a reputation for being a “star stopper.” His defensive skills were so razor sharp that he could shut down a superstar, or at least make him work for his points. Kobe Bryant was often frustrated by Bell’s tenacity on defense. Let’s face it, no one completely shuts down a player of Kobe’s caliber, but Bell could frustrate Kobe, take him out of his game, and interrupt his rhythm.

You would think that the NBA would love a guy who plays such great defense. Think again! Star stoppers hurt the promotion of marquee players. Fans don’t pay high prices to see players like Raja Bell Ã?¢?? they pay to see superstars like Kobe Bryant score 40 points. Basketball purists like to see good defense, but the NBA wants the big names to score big points.

If a player of Kobe’s stature collides with the likes of Raja Bell, the call will almost always go for Kobe and against Bell. As part of our ongoing training and game preparation, NBA referees regularly receive game-action video tape from the league office. Over the years, I have reviewed many recorded hours of video involving Raja Bell. The footage I analyzed usually illustrated fouls being called against Bell, rarely for him. The message was subtle but clear Ã?¢?? call fouls against the star stopper because he’s hurting the game.
If Kobe Bryant had two fouls in the first or second quarter and went to the bench, one referee would tell the other two, “Kobe’s got two fouls. Let’s make sure that if we call a foul on him, it’s an obvious foul, because otherwise he’s gonna go back to the bench. If he is involved in a play where a foul is called, give the foul to another player.”

Similarly, when games got physically rough, we would huddle up and agree to tighten the game up. So we started calling fouls on guys who didn’t really matter Ã?¢?? “ticky-tack” or “touch” fouls where one player just touched another but didn’t really impede his progress. Under regular circumstances these wouldn’t be fouls, but after a skirmish we wanted to regain control. We would never call these types of fouls on superstars, just on the average players who didn’t have star status. It was important to keep the stars on the floor.
Allen Iverson provides a good example of a player who generated strong reaction, both positive and negative, within the corps of NBA referees. For instance, veteran referee Steve Javie hated Allen Iverson and was loathe [sic] to give him a favorable call. If Javie was on the court when Iverson was playing, I would always bet on the other team to win or at least cover the spread. No matter how many times Iverson hit the floor, he rarely saw the foul line. By contrast, referee Joe Crawford had a grandson who idolized Iverson. I once saw Crawford bring the boy out of the stands and onto the floor during warm-ups to meet the superstar. Iverson and Crawford’s grandson were standing there, shaking hands, smiling, talking about all kinds of things. If Joe Crawford was on the court, I was pretty sure Iverson’s team would win or at least cover the spread.
Madison Square Garden was the place to be for a marquee matchup between the Miami Heat and New York Knicks. I worked the game with Derrick Stafford and Gary Zielinski, knowing that the Knicks were a sure bet to get favorable treatment that night. Derrick Stafford had a close relationship with Knicks coach Isiah Thomas, and he despised Heat coach Pat Riley. I picked the Knicks without batting an eye and settled in for a roller-coaster ride on the court.

During pregame warm-ups, Shaquille O’Neal approached Stafford and asked him to let some air out of the ball.

“Is this the game ball?” O’Neal asked. “It’s too hard. C’mon, D, let a little air out of it.”

Stafford then summoned one of the ball boys, asked for an air needle, and let some air out of the ball, getting a big wink and a smile from O’Neal.

-Tim Donaghy former league Referee [/quote]

Wasn’t he busted for gambling before he wrote his tell-all? Certainly raises issues of credibility. Not that some of this doesn’t happen – including some of it for normal psychological reasons.[/quote]

Yeah he was but this isn’t hard to believe. He was confirmed to have won 80% of his bets. 9/10 of those bets were on games he didnt officiate so it begs the question, how was he able to be right 80% of the time? He had insider information both from the refs working the game and instructions from the league office. Still think it’s not rigged?

Major sports have trouble keeping their minor investigations leak free. I can’t imagine them coordinating a major rigging conspiracy without someone talking.

If sports are rigged doesn’t it stand to reason that someone banned for life, or cut from a team, or whatever disgruntled folks are out there, would spill the beans? It’s unimaginable that with the turnover and disposability of players, coaches, and staff that someone, or more likely many someones would have come forward to complain.

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:
They give the popular players help. That’s why NBA teams get good when they start picking up well-known players. The refs help them.
[/quote]

Yeah, that’s the most reasonable explanation for the phenomenon by which NBA teams get good when they pick up stars.[/quote]

He said ‘well known’ not stars [/quote]

Well-known athletes tend to be star athletes. Why is Tyler Thigpen not well-known, while Aaron Rodgers is?

There are some well-known athletes that aren’t any good (Mark Sanchez, for example). But these are the exception. Lets assume he’s talking about star athletes. Can you think of a better explanation for the phenomenon than ref-league conspiracy? I can.[/quote]

On treatment of star Player

Relationships between NBA players and referees were generally all over the board â?? love, hate, and everything in-between. Some players, even very good ones, were targeted by referees and the league because they were too talented for their own good. Raja Bell, formerly of the Phoenix Suns and now a member of the Charlotte Bobcats, was one of those players. A defensive specialist throughout his career, Bell had a reputation for being a “star stopper.” His defensive skills were so razor sharp that he could shut down a superstar, or at least make him work for his points. Kobe Bryant was often frustrated by Bell’s tenacity on defense. Let’s face it, no one completely shuts down a player of Kobe’s caliber, but Bell could frustrate Kobe, take him out of his game, and interrupt his rhythm.

You would think that the NBA would love a guy who plays such great defense. Think again! Star stoppers hurt the promotion of marquee players. Fans don’t pay high prices to see players like Raja Bell â?? they pay to see superstars like Kobe Bryant score 40 points. Basketball purists like to see good defense, but the NBA wants the big names to score big points.

If a player of Kobe’s stature collides with the likes of Raja Bell, the call will almost always go for Kobe and against Bell. As part of our ongoing training and game preparation, NBA referees regularly receive game-action video tape from the league office. Over the years, I have reviewed many recorded hours of video involving Raja Bell. The footage I analyzed usually illustrated fouls being called against Bell, rarely for him. The message was subtle but clear â?? call fouls against the star stopper because he’s hurting the game.
If Kobe Bryant had two fouls in the first or second quarter and went to the bench, one referee would tell the other two, “Kobe’s got two fouls. Let’s make sure that if we call a foul on him, it’s an obvious foul, because otherwise he’s gonna go back to the bench. If he is involved in a play where a foul is called, give the foul to another player.”

Similarly, when games got physically rough, we would huddle up and agree to tighten the game up. So we started calling fouls on guys who didn’t really matter â?? “ticky-tack” or “touch” fouls where one player just touched another but didn’t really impede his progress. Under regular circumstances these wouldn’t be fouls, but after a skirmish we wanted to regain control. We would never call these types of fouls on superstars, just on the average players who didn’t have star status. It was important to keep the stars on the floor.
Allen Iverson provides a good example of a player who generated strong reaction, both positive and negative, within the corps of NBA referees. For instance, veteran referee Steve Javie hated Allen Iverson and was loathe [sic] to give him a favorable call. If Javie was on the court when Iverson was playing, I would always bet on the other team to win or at least cover the spread. No matter how many times Iverson hit the floor, he rarely saw the foul line. By contrast, referee Joe Crawford had a grandson who idolized Iverson. I once saw Crawford bring the boy out of the stands and onto the floor during warm-ups to meet the superstar. Iverson and Crawford’s grandson were standing there, shaking hands, smiling, talking about all kinds of things. If Joe Crawford was on the court, I was pretty sure Iverson’s team would win or at least cover the spread.
Madison Square Garden was the place to be for a marquee matchup between the Miami Heat and New York Knicks. I worked the game with Derrick Stafford and Gary Zielinski, knowing that the Knicks were a sure bet to get favorable treatment that night. Derrick Stafford had a close relationship with Knicks coach Isiah Thomas, and he despised Heat coach Pat Riley. I picked the Knicks without batting an eye and settled in for a roller-coaster ride on the court.

During pregame warm-ups, Shaquille O’Neal approached Stafford and asked him to let some air out of the ball.

“Is this the game ball?” O’Neal asked. “It’s too hard. C’mon, D, let a little air out of it.”

Stafford then summoned one of the ball boys, asked for an air needle, and let some air out of the ball, getting a big wink and a smile from O’Neal.

-Tim Donaghy former league Referee [/quote]

You do realize that a ton of the stuff in that post actually contradicts the idea that the league is outright rigged, yes? Referees acting with individual agency because of their relationships/beefs with players or coaches is the exact opposite of the NBA rigging games.

very well then you make a good point I would have to agree. Oh wait.

The 2002 Western Conference Finals between the Los Angeles Lakers and the Sacramento Kings presents a stunning example of game and series manipulation at its ugliest. As the teams prepared for Game 6 at the Staples Center, Sacramento had a 3â??2 lead in the series. The referees assigned to work Game 6 were Dick Bavetta, Bob Delaney, and Ted Bernhardt. As soon as the referees for the game were chosen, the rest of us knew immediately that there would be a Game 7. A prolonged series was good for the league, good for the networks, and good for the game. Oh, and one more thing: it was great for the big-market, star-studded Los Angeles Lakers.

In the pregame meeting prior to Game 6, the league office sent down word that certain calls â?? calls that would have benefitted the Lakers â?? were being missed by the referees. This was the type of not-so-subtle information that I and other referees were left to interpret. After receiving the dispatch, Bavetta openly talked about the fact that the league wanted a Game 7.

“If we give the benefit of the calls to the team that’s down in the series, nobody’s going to complain. The series will be even at three apiece, and then the better team can win Game 7,” Bavetta stated.

As history shows, Sacramento lost Game 6 in a wild come-from-behind thriller that saw the Lakers repeatedly sent to the foul line by the referees. For other NBA referees watching the game on television, it was a shameful performance by Bavetta’s crew, one of the most poorly officiated games of all time.

Tim Donaghay Former League Referee

Still Don’t believe it?

To have a little fun at the expense of the worst troublemakers, the referees working the game would sometimes make a modest friendly wager amongst themselves: first ref to give one of the bad boys a technical foul wouldn’t have to tip the ball boy that night. In the NBA, ball boys set up the referees’ locker room and keep it stocked with food and beer for the postgame meal. We usually ran the kid ragged with a variety of personal requests and then slipped him a $20 bill. Technically, the winner of the bet won twice â?? he didn’t have to pay the kid and he got to call a T on Mr. Foul-Mouthed Big-Shot Du Jour.

After the opening tip, it was hilarious as the three of us immediately focused our full attention on the intended victim, waiting for something, anything, to justify a technical foul. If the guy so much as looked at one of us and mumbled, we rang him up. Later in the referees’ locker room, we would down a couple of brews, eat some chicken wings, and laugh like hell.

We had another variation of this gag simply referred to as the “first foul of the game” bet. While still in the locker room before tip-off, we would make a wager on which of us would call the game’s first foul. That referee would either have to pay the ball boy or pick up the dinner tab for the other two referees. Sometimes, the ante would be $50 a guy. Like the technical foul bet, it was hilarious â?? only this time we were testing each other’s nerves to see who had the guts to hold out the longest before calling a personal foul. There were occasions when we would hold back for two or three minutes â?? an eternity in an NBA game â?? before blowing the whistle. It didn’t matter if bodies were flying all over the place; no fouls were called because no one wanted to lose the bet.

We played this little game during the regular season and summer league. After a game, all three refs would gather around the VCR and watch a replay of the game. Early in the contest, the announcers would say, “Holy cow! They’re really letting them play tonight!” If they only knew…

During one particular summer game, Duke Callahan, Mark Wunderlich, and I made it to the three-minute mark in the first quarter without calling a foul. We were running up and down the court, laughing our asses off as the players got hammered with no whistles. The players were exhausted from the nonstop running when Callahan finally called the first foul because Mikki Moore of the New Jersey Nets literally tackled an opposing player right in front of him. Too bad for Callahan â?? he lost the bet.

I became so good at this game that if an obvious foul was committed right in front of me, I would call a travel or a three-second violation instead. Those violations are not personal fouls, so I was still in the running to win the bet. The players would look at me with disbelief on their faces as if to say, “What the hell was that?”

-Tim Donaghy former league Referee

The Diamondbacks beat the Yankees in 2001 in the WS after sept 11.

The Giants beat the Patriots in the super bowl. Twice. Once stoping an undefeated season.

The Mavs beat the Heat in the finals after being down 0-2. First year with the big 3.

Marlins beat the Yankees in 03 WS.

The San Francisco Giants… Fuck them

Yeah the game is rigged… when your team loses

@Justliftbrah, you keep using these TD examples from his book, but you are not making the point that the leagues are rigged. Bad behavior from officials acting unprofessionally isn’t rigging the league. Calling ticky-tack fouls on role players to reign in physical play isn’t rigging the league (in this case it seems like compensation for letting the game get out of hand with their first foul bet in a lot of cases). The instructions from the league office to the officials influences games, but that doesn’t put the ball in the basket.

The example cited about the Kings sending the Lakers to the FT line at the end of those games was mostly because they were using the famed “Hack a Shaq” strategy. The Kings had nobody who could guard Shaq or Kobe, so of course late in games the combination of those two getting most of the shots plus fatigue and talent deficit will lead to fouls on the Kings. C-Webb and Vlade ain’t keepin’ Shaq off the rim and Doug Christie was a good defender but no MJ to stop Kobe, then of Peja (no D), Turk (no D), Gerald Wallace (too slow), and Chucky Brown (no nothing), who was even going to try?

The front offices influence behavior, but you can’t say that is flat out rigging the games.

I am certain that God hates the San Diego Chargers and uses his Divine Powers to sabotage them.

It is the only thing that makes sense.

If god hates the chargers, then i dont even want to know how he feels about teams from Cleveland.

[quote]Aggv wrote:
If god hates the chargers, then i dont even want to know how he feels about teams from Cleveland. [/quote]

Pretty good this week…

I don’t think hockey is. Every other pro sport could be rigged it wouldn’t make any difference to me.

Game’s rigged. Whether the league is directly or indirectly involved, refs are still calling in favor of certain players and teams. If they’re not told directly to do it, they’re trained to follow that behavior.

When I said well-known, it was meant to be a synonym for star or popular.

At the end of the day, it’s all about money. Businesses maximizing profits. In sports, they maximize profits by making sure the players everyone wants to see are successful, at least to a certain degree. (aside from also jacking up prices for everything, which they do around here).

Also, what some posters earlier are forgetting is that the media is tied into this. The leagues, the media, and the Vegas bookies are all in bed together performing a giant money-making orgie on each other.

In many cities, the media is mostly if not completely owned by local sports owners (I live in the DC area, Dan Snyder is the Skins owner and he owns a very large chunk of the local media; it’s well-known that he picks out who and what he wants to promote on all the shows in the media venues that he owns). And if they don’t own it, they’re still doing business together.

So if you think whistle-blowers will come out and expose the leagues’ and/or refs’ shenanigans, think again. The media collectively controls what we find out and don’t find out at the end of the day.

[quote]TDub301 wrote:
The media collectively controls what we find out and don’t find out at the end of the day.[/quote]

I agree 100% with this, but i dont believe sports are rigged.

Let’s see who wins these NHL game 7s. Nobody within the NHL would want a Tampa Bay v Anaheim finals over a Chicago v New york.

sailing/yachting is definitely rigged.

the easiest sport to rig is boxing