Do You Believe in God?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
822

[quote]pk1976 wrote:

One thing is absolutely clear: it is impossible for a human being to intellect God.

That implies there is a god for which there is no evidence. [/quote]

Just stupid. Evidence of an intelligent creator is everywhere. Anyone who thinks we are random sporadic stardust creations is really just kidding themselves. What doesn’t exist is proof. As you know, proof and evidence aren’t the same. The fact that an Intelligent creator possibly exists is enough for me, after all, the absolute worst that happens to me is 1 hour a week lost on sundays, enforced morals, better education etc… But if God does exist you will have a bit of explaining to do.

823

No.What is stupid is trotting out somebody elses thinking and parroting it as your own.

And how does ‘possibly exists’ relate to ‘fact’?

824

[quote]pk1976 wrote:

One thing is absolutely clear: it is impossible for a human being to intellect God.

That implies there is a god for which there is no evidence. [/quote]

You misunderstand, then, what I meant by the word “intellect.”

825

[quote]andrewc1989 wrote:
Just stupid. Evidence of an intelligent creator is everywhere. [/quote]

I think you may be misunderstanding pk1976’s post, and you would both agree on the above statement.

826

God is an individual and the only one. Science operates by experimentation and comparison. One thing (God) that is totally different from all other existence cannot be categorized, and hence conceptualized by us. We function by forming concepts from comparisons.

Do we say therefore that only those things we can observe and conceptualize exist? Sounds a lot like sollipsism…

827

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
God is an individual and the only one. Science operates by experimentation and comparison. One thing (God) that is totally different from all other existence cannot be categorized, and hence conceptualized by us. We function by forming concepts from comparisons.

Do we say therefore that only those things we can observe and conceptualize exist? Sounds a lot like sollipsism…[/quote]

No it doesn´t.

828

[quote]orion wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
God is an individual and the only one. Science operates by experimentation and comparison. One thing (God) that is totally different from all other existence cannot be categorized, and hence conceptualized by us. We function by forming concepts from comparisons.

Do we say therefore that only those things we can observe and conceptualize exist? Sounds a lot like sollipsism…

No it doesn´t.
[/quote]

Our brains work using reason to develop concepts from percepts. This is done by comparing objects of perception. Therefore, an entity or object that we’ve never encountered before cannot yet have a name (and the concept attached). What compares with God?

So, the question is, if we can’t conceptualize it, does that mean that it does not exist? God is, by definition, unique. Does uniqueness exclude existence? No.

829

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
orion wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
God is an individual and the only one. Science operates by experimentation and comparison. One thing (God) that is totally different from all other existence cannot be categorized, and hence conceptualized by us. We function by forming concepts from comparisons.

Do we say therefore that only those things we can observe and conceptualize exist? Sounds a lot like sollipsism…

No it doesn´t.

Our brains work using reason to develop concepts from percepts. This is done by comparing objects of perception. Therefore, an entity or object that we’ve never encountered before cannot yet have a name (and the concept attached). What compares with God?

So, the question is, if we can’t conceptualize it, does that mean that it does not exist? God is, by definition, unique. Does uniqueness exclude existence? No.
[/quote]

No, but if we cannot conceive it, nor observe it in some way, it is complete irrelevant for our lifes.

Could something like that exist? Ja, like Unicorns and Pixies and Bigfoot.

830

SubGenius say that anything man can think up might as well exist because of the repercussions caused by the belief.

831

[quote]Makavali wrote:
dianab wrote:
Jesus is coming.
quick, look busy.

I thought it was:

Jesus is coming.
Quick, hide the porn.[/quote]

if hes already coming hes not gonna steal your porn, some people (shakes head)

832

[quote]orion wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
orion wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
God is an individual and the only one. Science operates by experimentation and comparison. One thing (God) that is totally different from all other existence cannot be categorized, and hence conceptualized by us. We function by forming concepts from comparisons.

Do we say therefore that only those things we can observe and conceptualize exist? Sounds a lot like sollipsism…

No it doesn´t.

Our brains work using reason to develop concepts from percepts. This is done by comparing objects of perception. Therefore, an entity or object that we’ve never encountered before cannot yet have a name (and the concept attached). What compares with God?

So, the question is, if we can’t conceptualize it, does that mean that it does not exist? God is, by definition, unique. Does uniqueness exclude existence? No.

No, but if we cannot conceive it, nor observe it in some way, it is complete irrelevant for our lifes.

Could something like that exist? Ja, like Unicorns and Pixies and Bigfoot.

[/quote]

Bigfoot does exist, dont be such a hematocrit.

833

[quote]orion wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
orion wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
God is an individual and the only one. Science operates by experimentation and comparison. One thing (God) that is totally different from all other existence cannot be categorized, and hence conceptualized by us. We function by forming concepts from comparisons.

Do we say therefore that only those things we can observe and conceptualize exist? Sounds a lot like sollipsism…

No it doesn´t.

Our brains work using reason to develop concepts from percepts. This is done by comparing objects of perception. Therefore, an entity or object that we’ve never encountered before cannot yet have a name (and the concept attached). What compares with God?

So, the question is, if we can’t conceptualize it, does that mean that it does not exist? God is, by definition, unique. Does uniqueness exclude existence? No.

No, but if we cannot conceive it, nor observe it in some way, it is complete irrelevant for our lifes.

Could something like that exist? Ja, like Unicorns and Pixies and Bigfoot.

[/quote]

You mean like Dark Matter? Look, just because God is beyond our conception doesn’t mean that God doesn’t exist. Singular events can’t be proven. Ants can’t conceive of Algebra but Algebra does exist.

Religious experiences are unique singularities. They cannot be dismissed as delusional, because that’s as close minded as accepting such information blindly.

834

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
orion wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
orion wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
God is an individual and the only one. Science operates by experimentation and comparison. One thing (God) that is totally different from all other existence cannot be categorized, and hence conceptualized by us. We function by forming concepts from comparisons.

Do we say therefore that only those things we can observe and conceptualize exist? Sounds a lot like sollipsism…

No it doesn´t.

Our brains work using reason to develop concepts from percepts. This is done by comparing objects of perception. Therefore, an entity or object that we’ve never encountered before cannot yet have a name (and the concept attached). What compares with God?

So, the question is, if we can’t conceptualize it, does that mean that it does not exist? God is, by definition, unique. Does uniqueness exclude existence? No.

No, but if we cannot conceive it, nor observe it in some way, it is complete irrelevant for our lifes.

Could something like that exist? Ja, like Unicorns and Pixies and Bigfoot.

You mean like Dark Matter? Look, just because God is beyond our conception doesn’t mean that God doesn’t exist. Singular events can’t be proven. Ants can’t conceive of Algebra but Algebra does exist.

Religious experiences are unique singularities. They cannot be dismissed as delusional, because that’s as close minded as accepting such information blindly.

[/quote]

My whole point was that

a, solipsism has an established meaning and

b) why should we ants care?

So maybe there is something out there. Yippee. Since I cannot conceive it and it as no measurable impact on my life who cares?

835

But to the people who believe, it has made an impact on their lives whether God exists or not.

And that impact has been felt the world over.

Going back to the Sub Genius’ take: it is irrelevant. The idea of God has changed the world for better or worse.

836

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
But to the people who believe, it has made an impact on their lives whether God exists or not.

And that impact has been felt the world over.
[/quote]

I never claimed I do not believe in blind, unreasoned faith.

837

I don’t believe in God or at least an all powerful and all knowing one. It doesn’t make sense and I don’t care what people say about something as great as God not needing to make sense. That argument is shit because if you will accept things exist regardless of the fact you have no real evidence you might as well accept anything blindly. The burden of proof falls on the people who say God exists not those who do not believe.

I just see too many problems with religion especially some of the reasons taught in school that are supposed to prove the existence of God such as intelligent design. I think that is shit simply because we cannot tell how organized the universe is until we’ve seen it all which we most likely never will and intelligent designs is just silly. Patterns in the world are made by our minds instinctively so we can organize our lives and anything can be made into a pattern. If something is total chaos I could say the pattern is a totally unpredictable pattern. It’s unpredictability is predictable. Also in order for things not to be organized the laws of physics and the characteristics of things always need to be changing. Of course planets eventually begin to move in an orbit forever as long as they are not disturbed. For them to not do so gravity would suddenly have to change when it has no reason to.

People say the human mind is organized because we are so intelligent yet our intelligence causes us to over-complicate things. The more we advance the more shit we have to worry about and the more we desire which causes self-destructive/self-defeating behavior. We’d all probably be just as well off living off the land without technology as we would be with it.

Another problem is the all knowing idea. If God’s all knowing why would he allow people to be made knowing they will go to hell since he can see the future and knows they will damn themselves? If God can see the future it means we have no free will and there is no reason to be punished. God also has no reason to do anything because if he knows the outcome of every action he makes before he performs it there is no reason to do something in the first place. He can perceive all possibilities of actions within his mind simultaneously and he is all powerful meaning he has no goals to aspire to. God has no reason to exist with infinite power/knowledge.

God also does need to exist as a first cause for the creation of the universe. People say where did the gases that formed the Big Bang come from? People really don’t have a definite answer.

Ask people where God came from and they say they don’t need a reason because God is God and beyond reason.

That isn’t a logical argument. If you can say that, I can say the Big Bang is the Big Bang so I don’t need a reason for its existence either.

The difference is we have scientific proof of the Big Bang. How do we resolve where we came from/how the universe began?

You don’t. It’s a mystery and you can live with it the same way you live with the mystery of where God came from.

The idea that since so many people believe in God that he must exist is shitty too. It can also be seen as meaning we all have a desire for a God to make our lives meaningful and feel protected. Countless times religious people will say without God life has no meaning or God is everything. If that is how you think then obviously you will desire God to exist because without him you have no reason to live or do anything and might as well kill yourself.

If God isn’t all powerful I’d say fuck it since we don’t know if he is watching us or if he even knows why he made us. Maybe he doesn’t know where he came from and is asking the same questions we do and made us to entertain himself.

838

The only person who should believe in God is one who has had an experience of the existence of God. To accept a fact w/o proof or experience is irrational.

839

I’m an agnostic athiest.

I don’t know if the issue of those two words being awnsers to different questions has been adressed, as I haven’t read all 800+ posts yet.

I personally think pure agnosticism is also a pretty bold statement. Are you really agnostic about Zeus? How about Thor? Not to mention that being a firm agnostic implies that you believe that we will never be able to know whether or not a god exists. (This has most likely already been argued, but I feel its worth restating even if it has been.)

840

God told me to eat my neighbors wife. He caught me in the middle of it, now they are divorced and he wont talk to me.

841

[quote]Scrotus wrote:
God told me to eat out my neighbors wife. He caught me in the middle of it, now they are divorced and he wont talk to me.
[/quote]

Fixed to avoid the cannibalism jokes.