[quote]Rykker wrote:
Renton wrote:
…and nicked his space ship.
“What does God need with a starship?”[/quote]
LMAO (I had to look that up though).
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
I respect a person who has a sincere faith.
[/quote]
Why?
[quote]Gael wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
I respect a person who has a sincere faith.
Why?
[/quote]
Gael - let me ask you something - do you have faith in anything? I’m not just talking about a God, but anything at all. An unshakable belief in something you cannot possibly prove?
I think if you do then you can answer your own question. If you don’t then you couldn’t possibly understand the answer.
[quote]Renton wrote:
Gael wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
I respect a person who has a sincere faith.
Why?
Gael - let me ask you something - do you have faith in anything? I’m not just talking about a God, but anything at all. An unshakable belief in something you cannot possibly prove?
I think if you do then you can answer your own question. If you don’t then you couldn’t possibly understand the answer.[/quote]
If he is able to delude himself he will respect other people that cling to illusions?
Sounds more like understanding people who share the same weakness.
That is not respect though.
If I truly and unshakably believed that pigs could fly it would hardly make me a better person.
[quote]orion wrote:
If I truly and unshakably believed that pigs could fly it would hardly make me a better person.
[/quote]
But would it really make you a weaker person if you believed that? What harm would it do to you or anyone else?
Btw - Pigs can fly. They just choose not to.
[quote]Renton wrote:
orion wrote:
If I truly and unshakably believed that pigs could fly it would hardly make me a better person.
But would it really make you a weaker person if you believed that? What harm would it do to you or anyone else?
Btw - Pigs can fly. They just choose not to.[/quote]
It would not do harm to anyone.
But it would
a) not deserve any respect, and
b) a lot of religious beliefs are not that harmless.
[quote]orion wrote:
a) not deserve any respect, and
b) a lot of religious beliefs are not that harmless.
[/quote]
We may have to agree to differ somewhat here mate -
a) I personally can respect someone who has an unshakable belief. It goes some way towards freedom of speach and the Voltaire quote “I may not agree with what you say but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it”
b) I didn’t mention religious beliefs. I was talking about faith as brought into question by Gael referring to OG’s point about faith. Nobody mentioned religion (although if it was implied I will agree totally with your point).
[quote]Renton wrote:
orion wrote:
a) not deserve any respect, and
b) a lot of religious beliefs are not that harmless.
We may have to agree to differ somewhat here mate -
a) I personally can respect someone who has an unshakable belief. It goes some way towards freedom of speach and the Voltaire quote “I may not agree with what you say but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it”
b) I didn’t mention religious beliefs. I was talking about faith as brought into question by Gael referring to OG’s point about faith. Nobody mentioned religion (although if it was implied I will agree totally with your point).
[/quote]
I do not get where you get from Voltaire´s quote that he necessarily respected what someone else said, he just respected his right to say it.
One of the advantages of free speech is precisely that it makes it easier to determine who is a moron.
Similarly I can respect that people belief all kinds of things but that does not imply respect for those beliefs.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
rainjack wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
I am getting fed up asking this…
If you say you beleive in god but do not conform to any religious beliefs then please describe the god you believe in and why you believe this
Cheers
I am getting equally fed up with telling you that no one owes you an explanation for shit.
You might read Neph’s first post. There is no "describing’ God.
so you cannot describe what is you believe? do you even know what it is you believe?
I can very easily tell you what it is I believe. I cannot describe who God is. There is a difference.
[/quote]
All I was interested in is what you believe yourself personally, your beliefs are very personal to you and I was interested in what conclusions you have come to about ‘God’ maybe I have missed something, maybe you could enlighten me!
But if you wish to keep these things private I totally respect that of course
Peace 
[quote]Gael wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
I respect a person who has a sincere faith.
Why?
[/quote]
Yeah why?
To me faith is just stubborness, close mindedness, it is how your are brainwashed into believing religious teachings, you are tuaght that once you do not question God or his teaching, once you do not listen to other beliefs then you have true faith
Faith… pah! What use is that?
[quote]orion wrote:
I do not get where you get from Voltaire´s quote that he necessarily respected what someone else said, he just respected his right to say it.
One of the advantages of free speech is precisely that it makes it easier to determine who is a moron.
Similarly I can respect that people belief all kinds of things but that does not imply respect for those beliefs.[/quote]
I didn’t mean that Voltaire himself respected what someone else said, I was trying to draw a comparison with the right to say something and the right to believe a thing.
Your last paragraph probably sums up my original thought better than I put it. We can both respect people’s beliefs - I, like you, may well disagree with those beliefs, but I can always respect an individual’s rights to believe.
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
Gael wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
I respect a person who has a sincere faith.
Why?
Yeah why?
To me faith is just stubborness, close mindedness, it is how your are brainwashed into believing religious teachings, you are tuaght that once you do not question God or his teaching, once you do not listen to other beliefs then you have true faith
Faith… pah! What use is that?
[/quote]
EE - My personal take on it is that religion does not equal faith. We can have faith in many things - as an example we can have faith in anothers knowledge of the motor industry and buying cars.
Yeah Ok mate - A cheap shot for obvious reasons but it does highlight the difference between faith in a thing or person and faith in a religion/god.
Just trying to broaden the use of the word.
If you want to talk about the use of the word to do with religion and ‘God’ then yep - Pah - for me it’s useless brainwashing of the masses. But mainly when taken in the context of backing up religion.
I am an atheist. I reject the term agnostic because it is taken as a given that one cannot know god. One either has faith in a higher power or doesn’t. One who questions god’s existence is an atheist due to a lack of faith. Faith, by definition requires absolute confidence in ones beliefs. To question is to lack faith.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE OF THINGS NOT SEEN.
Electric_Eales, I believe in a God only because I don’t think that ALL THIS was randomly made by chemistry and time.
I don’t believe in religion because rules, customs, and rites aren’t good enough to believe in something that is above humanity. I don’t mind if they are used as guidelines for being good people, but I do mind when they are used to justify genocide, wars, and otherwise pointless political movements.
I’m sorry my answer is not something cool like a blue-skinned god with six arms who can beat up Jesus in a Dragon Ball Z-style fight (like a Hindu student of mine told me once).
i do not believe in a god, nor heaven or hell. we alone are responsible for our lives, what we do with it, how we treat our fellow beings, ourselves. poop happens, deal with it.
i do have faith and believe in something that cannot be defined nor bound to any one race, nation, etc. - god’s god is the closest i can think of.
if one looks very closely, all religions teach similar things - love and compassion are not emotions - rather states of being. and from that i (or try to) live my life. and at the end of my days, i only want to be able to answer two questions affirmatively - did i live well and did i love well?
The only things anyone really needs to believe in are eating, resting, and iron.
[quote]Renton wrote:
The only things anyone really needs to believe in are eating, resting, and iron.[/quote]
Amen sist…I mean brother!
Does anyone think love is proof of God? I mean, why do we love? What is the purpose? Is it just for survival?
I have ultimate, abiding faith in the one Truth of T-Nation: there is a search engine, and we should use it.