[quote]whotookmyname wrote:
harrytipper1215 wrote:
Really you’ve never heard of back pumps, I’ve seen people asking for help with them on forums all the time, I started getting them two days ago so I started on taurine and thats done the job.
They’re common with dbol & superdrol, but I’d never heard about them w/ epi. Then again, I wasn’t looking.
harrytipper1215 wrote:
My freind did a havoc pulse cycle and gained 6kg er i think 13.1 or .2 lb of a pulse with 1 bottle of havoc, (he’s a powerlifter and defenatlly isn’t new to weights so I thought that was quite impressive considering he was stuck in a plateau)
Those sound like pretty good results. Bet he ate a lot 
Unlike Bonez, I don’t think you’re going to harm yourself by pulsing, as blood levels of havoc are already very short-lived, and I imagine that you can run it like this without becoming suppressed, unlike with test, but hey, I respect his opinion.
I think that pulsing is totally unnecessary because havoc is relatively weak (at least to me) & you’d be theoretically limiting your potential gains.[/quote]
Slight clarification. I don’t think there is any major risk with pulsing. I just don’t see it as the ideal protocol. I DO think that suppression will occur but that is difficult to prove so there is little reason to debate/argue it in this context. I’d rather have the AAS at a stable concentration for a specific period of time than worry about fluctuating levels that may or may not have undesirable results. To each his own.
ahh, I understand what you’re saying and repect you’re opinions. I know that i won’t avoid supression completly but i will take not being as shut down.
Well ether pulsing or a traditional cycle, lets hope neather has any specific porblems asociated with them, for both our sakes.
O and what are symptoms for test shutdown exept for testicular atrophy. Just so i know what to look out for. Thanks
hey good news increasing my protien intake has worked a dream so far, thanks alot for your thoughts.
[quote]harrytipper1215 wrote:
hey good news increasing my protien intake has worked a dream so far, thanks alot for your thoughts.[/quote]
What?
You said you were going to alter your diet less than 36 hours ago. Impossible that you’ve seen any change. Be realistic with yourself, for your own benefit.
Haha yea thats why I said so far, I thought it would take longer to see benifits but the day after my chest workout (I increased my protien on my chest day), I was hurting less and same today the day after my shoulders day. And my recovery from my chest day has been quicker than before, so cant argue with that can we, but I understand what your saying and i thought the same, but it seemed to work quicker than me and you thought.
O and that chest day was more intense with higher weights and shorter rests than my previous ones, so it wasn’t just that I went eazily on that day.
Also its strange I’ve gained 7 pounds on the scales and 1 inch on my arms in two weeks. I can’t belive that if im honest it can’t all be muscle no way, possible a few pounds in fat maby 2 or 3 at most but im not sure if i have seen any fat gains but i guess a few pounds is hard to see, Im sure it can’t be water ether because havoc is extreamly dry considering its a serm bassically. I would be happy with all those gains in muscle but i’ve got to be realistic as you said.
First of all you are currently using an anabolic steroid. That alone can account for the decrease in recovery time. It can also account for the ability to handle more weight with shorter rest periods.
Havoc is not “basically a SERM”. It has AI properties in very high doses (doses you won’t be approaching during this cycle). It does not aromatize which is why you don’t need to use an AI while on it, but it will cause estrogen rebound if not handled properly post cycle. Estrogen rebound is not a characteristic of a SERM.
Ok, I now know that I was wrong, I have read a few things saying that it acts like a serm and blocks the recptors. Altough I will be the first to admit that i do not know everything so feel free to shoot any thing that i say is wrong down, and thanks for your thoughts its been help full.
If you were to taper Havoc down towards the end of the cycle, would it theroretically reduce chance of estrogen rebound or is that totally wrong, just a thought.
[quote]harrytipper1215 wrote:
Ok, I now know that I was wrong, I have read a few things saying that it acts like a serm and blocks the recptors. Altough I will be the first to admit that i do not know everything so feel free to shoot any thing that i say is wrong down, and thanks for your thoughts its been help full.
If you were to taper Havoc down towards the end of the cycle, would it theroretically reduce chance of estrogen rebound or is that totally wrong, just a thought.[/quote]
Na, no need to taper it. I guess there is a chance it make a little bit of a difference if that was the only plan you had to prevent rebound, but it certainly not necessary.
4 week Nolva PCT should be enough to prevent estrogen rebound. SERM pct will do nothing for your libido though, if it crashes. Unless the estrogen left in ones system is enough to cause libido problems but not gyno; I’m not sure about that.
I would like to say that’s not the case because I am prone to gyno but Havoc did nothing to aggrevate it even though it killed my libido. Again, these are all guesses with no scientific basis.
I was thinking that I may taper it from 40mg or 50mg down by 10 my per week and add some zma, during the tapering , because protentally I would reduce chance of rebound and posible slowly increase natually test ( I don’t know if test levels will increase with lower doses or will shutdown just continue?)
then after the taper start a pct with estrogen blocks I’m thinking AI because I don’t like the idea of the SERMs health risks, but obviously I will have one on hand in case.
What do u think or is this just pointless and I’m over thinking it.
What cycles have you done and would recomend because I was thinking of doing another cycle and havoc on the second time round aparently doesn’t work as well as the first. I was thinking turnabol or halodrol don’t really what to use a wet gainers due to gyno risks.
Havoc has too short of a half life to make tapering it worth it. You will not be alleiviating the shutdown at all. By tapering it you will only have less of the drug in your system, giving you less of a chance to make gains from it.
I already said that the SERM will take care of the estrogen rebound. ZMA will do nothing for the HPTA. You can use it but not for that reason.
I am not going to respond to your idea about using an AI instead of a SERM for PCT. It’s just plain stupid. You obviously don’t know the difference between them.
I don’t recommend designer steroids to anyone, anymore. They aren’t worth it. And pro hormones tend to be worse.
If you have access to turinabol than you have access to other legitimate steroids.