Has this been an issue from when you were very young? My understanding is that androgen insensitivity syndrome is from birth. It doesn’t develop later in life.
If it is the receptors malfunctioning then muscle development would only be equivalent to what a male would be able to put on on a standard dose of TRT. Although being 97kg, lean and you not being a serious body builder (i could be wrong there) seems to indicate that your androgen receptors are working fine.
It may be something else, possibly neurological? Or what about your estradiol? Someone else may be able to drop some insight on this one but maybe you were running high on e2, causing the issues you mentioned and getting to a certain high dose of test and being so lean the aromatase enzyme was converting all it can to e2 and your test to e2 ratio was perfect allowing you to feel normal. (This could be complete bs as I’m not well versed on the mechanisms involved and whether the aromatase enzyme will up regulate with an increase in hormones).
If this were the case it would make 500mg TRT rather unsafe.
Full is. Partial is as well, but it’s lesser-recognized as you essentially look like a male, but miss some characteristics.
That would indicate that my androgen receptors in muscle tissue work fine. What about the rest? Testosterone has 1000s of functions in the body.
Never run high on e2. I used to get e2 checked every month and stayed at 22 (recommended for TRT) for a long minute, but it didn’t feel right… so I dropped to around 16 with 1 more Aromasin dose per week. That was my sweet spot for e2.
Follow up: They injected me with GH today and I may have a GH deficiency on top of testosterone. Hell, if I got up to low 90s and cut and they take me down to 125-200mg test-e/wk with GH… I might just live with that.
1st day of 4 days of 5000iu hCG injections followed by an hour later to get testosterone levels (I think this is to prove secondary hypogonadism, with an MRI shortly to cover primary hypogonadism).
One thing I did not know is that sense of smell is related to hormones too. I had a smell test with 5 options: 1) No smell, 2) Little smell, 3) Rose, 4) Sugar, 5) Rotten.
There were no placebo smells and I could only smell about 3 out of the 50 given and faintly smell 2-5 of others, but unrelated (like one smelled like nail polish remover, when that clearly isn’t an option).
I probably have a tumor or some shit. But, an MRI of the smell “knob” near the brain will confirm that…
So many tests, so many days in the hospital. Just give 500mg already and let me be as AAS is legal anyway (for as long as it’s not in a cooked form in vials ordered as that is motive for injecting, and syringes are illegal).
So I had my first heart echo and the technician wasn’t supposed to say whether my heart was enlarged or not as that’s my doctor’s job. However, she did ask me if I was an athlete, somewhat hinting it was.
Now, it’s “chicken before the egg”.
Because I’m a former Marine, I would run 3-5 miles 3-4x weekly. I briefly took a break from running after getting out of the service until 23 years old. From then to about 27/28, I worked my way up to running 10km-15km/day (from 3, quickly to 5 as that’s a typical USMC run, and beyond) with maybe a day off here and there, only running 5km and then doing “CrossFit” style workouts (USMC PT, rather) at my midpoint destination (pullups, situps, tricep pushdowns on a bench at a park, etc.).
Then, I began working out and dropping the twig-look for mass, keeping some cardio up, but only 3.2km to 5km 2-3x weekly at a much slower pace while bulking and 5km~ faster while cutting.
But… did my active duty days and running upwards of 15km a day (sometimes half marathons) cause an enlarged heart (if it is, to be confirmed by a doctor), or did 500mg testosterone over the last 3-4 years…?
Significantly enlarged cardiac parameters above designated guidelines are rare unless you were an elite athlete.
If you have cardiac enlargement with an associated subclinical/clinical deterioration in cardiac function it’s probably related to prolonged anabolic steroid intake.
Furthermore, athletes heart is generally reversible following prolonged detraining. You’ve lost like 20kg and you’re probably not training. Lingering cardiac enlargement is probably malignant as opposed to cardiac enlargement induced via physiologic adaptation.
You were on cycle for more than 3 years without a break
250mg test/wk
250mg + primo
500mg
Then 500 mg + primo + c17-AA orals
AAS mediated cardiac enlargement may be reversible, though microvascular alterations and/or myocardial fibrosis isn’t. Eventual DIALATED cardiomyopathy and subsequent heart failure is irreversible. Don’t kid yourself, you’ve probably induced a bit of damage here.
Hey @unreal24278 have you heard of lisinopril (and other ACE inhibitors) as a treatment to reverse cardiac remodeling? That’s something I’ve seen said here and there but never actually investigated myself. Any thoughts?
Ok, got the results from the doctor: Heart is fine after 3-4 years of “abuse” of testosterone and cycling prohormones; IM and oral Primo; and oral DBOL.
The one thing that doesn’t check out is abnormal growth hormones. Since they’re low, I will be getting these prescribed for free (anywhere from $10k-$60k/yr apparently).
If I gained 92kg on 500mg testosterone alone, I hypothetically should breach that 100kg mark doing what I was doing as I lacked GH. I’ll be on 250-500mg test-e per week for about 3 months until the GH hits the system and I am able to get it provided for free. At which point, we’ll ween down from that mark as I introduce GH. I should be able to get some good results prior to and after (normal T dose + GH). It looks like I may start at 1iu and possibly move up to 2-3 iu… while not a ‘mean’ bodybuilder dose of 4iu, I will be impressed with what I can do on a little amount with testosterone with where I got on 500mg testosterone.
Also, I’ll cycle another 250mg/wk for 8 wks every now and then doctor hopping for a missed dose and add some primo as well.
Apparently the brain functions are from GH and not testosterone…
Generally speaking 3iu isn’t a replacement dosage. Serious question (and it’s fine if this is the case). Are you looking to abuse growth hormone as opposed to the prospect of replacement?
So… You intend to go doctor hopping and use primo + a supratherapetic dose of GH?
I meant that as in I gained from my beginning of ~76kg (so I gained 16kg while dropping bodyfat by 6% too).
I’ve quite literally been in a hospital getting test after test conducted to find out what’s wrong with me mentally to where I need 500mg test to feel good. GH could be the missing hormone where I only need 125mg-200mg (a regular TRT dose) as opposed to 500mg. And, if I cycle 500mg at times with GH and orals, I might be able to do more amazing things as I will have GH working in my favor too (something my body lacked, but still allowed me to get to 92kg).
No. Doctor hopping for testosterone and oral primo caps as I’ll get the basic (125mg-200mg test-e for TRT) weekly from 1 doc after about the 3 month waiting period to get my GH prescribed (hopefully, 500mg until then so I can shoot up from 72kg to 80-85kg) and then cycle 500mg at times with the typical GH dose/primo to see if I can break 92kg (lean) as the GH component was lacking, but I still put on mass and strength with just 500mg testosterone.
Are you comfortable taking the risk of AAS + GH after potentially being diagnosed cardiomegaly secondary to AAS use? The cumulative effect of both could in theory lead to CHF.
Think about this carefully, I understand individualistic priorities differ. Is the potential impending death really worth it? If you decide it is, I can’t fault you for harbouring this opinion… Just be aware this is a very real potential outcome.
So this guy actually took absolutely nothing from the answers to his question and is defending 500mg as a therapeutic dose and ignoring the obvious ramifications that have already manifested.
Check your E2 levels OP because you are acting like a…
Ehhh, let’s not judge too harshly. Be it physical or psychiatric manifestations, OP is suffering. Think about what he’s going through (cut off T cold turkey, an inpatient, going through rigorous medical testing etc).
Justification regarding self destructive behaviour is one of the oldest tricks in the “addict” book. Anabolic steroids aren’t addictive per se, but a secure paridigm can be created from routine behaviour that feels good (training hard, feeling good and looking hyooge). Changing dimensions of which make us feel secure and/or pleasurable is a terrifying concept. That alone can be mentally draining.
Granted as I’ve said prior, priorities differ (that’s all I feel comfortable saying as I don’t wish to say anything that OP could construe as an encouraging statement as I seriously don’t condone blatant, extensive AAS abuse).
500mg WAS a therapeutic dose for me because I now have a GH confirmed ailment. The excess testosterone took care of the brain issues (while giving me mass). Now that I can get GH, I can reduce testosterone. As I’ve been stating, I AM IN THE HOSPITAL FOR A FULL BODY WORKUP BECAUSE SOMETHING IS WRONG WHERE I NEED 500MG TO ‘FEEL GOOD’ IN THE BRAIN AND HAVE COGNITIVE ABILITIES TO DO SIMPLE MATH LIKE 8+7.
There is no correlation between the two. Having a GH deficiency equates to requiring growth hormone, not a massive dose of testosterone.
You didn’t “need” that much testosterone, you needed growth hormone. Perhaps the T masked symptoms, but clinically speaking the indicated treatment wasn’t 500mg T/wk
I couldn’t believe it either, but look at gh deficiencies and what they cause: The same as testosterone. As I was building up T to 500, my cognitive issues went away. However, it could’ve been solved had I did a full body workup with a leading endocrinologist that knew what they were looking for 4 years ago.
GH is the problem, not T.
I will hopefully get 500mg/wk for 3 months to gain back some mass, then reduce to 125-250 weekly while taking GH so that cognitive issues return on a lower dose of T.
I know this is a long thread, and it was a rant, to begin with… but me requiring 500mg for a therapeutic dose has been put to rest from this test (need to test it first), a standard dose of testosterone and a therapeutic dose of GH.
I think your on the money here. I can only imagine what it would feel like to go from a lean 90kg+ to mid 70s as well as being cut of T cold turkey. It’s understandable anyone would want to justify returning to the above mentioned weekly dosage and in turn the same body composition.
I’ve noticed more and more comments regarding the body comp and less about the cognitive impairment he was suffering which points to what I’ve mentioned above.
@baka everyone here is only trying to help, they are extremely knowledgeable and simply don’t want to see you do irreparable damage to yourself. Hopefully once your back to where you need to be and feeling 100% you’ll look back at this thread and see that.
@deanis55, I know everyone here is trying to help, labeling me an abuser, drug user without clarity because on benzos, etc. while ignoring 7+ instances that I was treating clarity and overlooking the parts where I just worked out and didn’t take IG selfies at the gym.
While I didn’t have the best doc first, this doc found the problem and it was GH. Nobody here suggested what @unreal24278 just came up with as, “You didn’t “need” that much testosterone, you needed growth hormone. Perhaps the T masked symptoms, but clinically speaking the indicated treatment wasn’t 500mg T/wk”. But as the symptoms were masked, and the reasons unknown, 500mg T/wk was treatment, not AAS abuse.
Did GH come to anybody’s mind as to why I needed 500mg? No. I am admitting now that testosterone may have masked the GH deficiency because I never had a workup like this. Now, 500mg may not be my TRT level and 125-250 maybe while on GH as I will have clarity again, hopefully. (Though, for the first 3 months after discharge, I will hop on 500mg T until I get my GH prescription worked through the system here so I can gain back some mass, quickly, as I went from 92kg to 72kg in a matter of weeks while 76kg down to low 70s (cut) to 98kg in years of cycling.
Benzodiazepines have nothing to do with the situation at hand or the “label” you were given. I take opiates as needed for chronic pain (though I don’t like talking about it). I would hope no one is judging you for what I assume is a clinically indicated and legitimate use of benzodiazepines.
Well, they sure put “clarity” under that and were quick to judge body image problems over me not being able to think clearly, when on benzos, I can. I also take Tramadol (the highest opioid [metabolizes, like a prohormone] you can get in Japan without having cancer).
At least you weren’t quick to snap to judgment and rash accusations that I’m abusing AAS… there was a medical need for it, and, the first doc gave it to me as it helped. The 2nd doc wouldn’t as that dose scared him and pulled me off and referred me to this endo. This endo found the underlying condition. So, hopefully, the end is near. I just have 1 more test: Another MRI as it could’ve been read wrong by the first doctor and there actually be a tumor.
Do you have chronic pain? I find tramadol is rather effective. I don’t suppose they have tapentadol over there (for non-cancer pain).
Similar to tramadol in that it has dual properties as a u-opiate receptor agonist and a norepinephrine reuputake inhibitor (weaker effect on serotonin reuputake though).
Not a pro-drug, significantly more potent and probably more prone to abuse. I’ve used both, tapentadol is more efficient for treating for pain but tramadol makes me far less nauseous.
Oxycodone and/or stronger opiates make me queasy and induce profound sedation + cognitive impairment
