I might be alone on this but I think he would’ve… He had his base excited, just like Trump. Also, Hillary probably lost a good amount of Bernie supporters after the whole Debbie Wasserman Schultz/DNC leak. Bernie wouldn’t be losing any Hillary Supporters and I can’t imagine he has anywhere near the amount of skeletons in the closet as Hillary…
No, they didn’t learn anything. Since my news intake is limited to AFN and web, you only have to watch Chris Hayes, Chris Matthews (MSNBC) ,Tapper and Cooper on CNN to know nothing has changed. They are orgasmic on knowing they will be feeding on Trump for the next four years and how the election was nothing but a racist backlash.
I have a little, true story that I think, will explain the Democratic party’s failure to win an election, even when they had everything in their favor. Now, in full disclosure, I voted for neither candidate,
I wrote my in choice.
About a week ago, we were on a operation to apprehend an individual for supplying weapons and IED materials to Johnny Jihad. My partner happened to be life-long democratic from rural western Tennessee. His father has owned a small meat processing business for the past 27 years. He put 3 daughters through college and unfortunately his son found himself breathing the shit and smog of Kabul.
About two hours into waiting, he said, " Hey, you vote for Trump?" What? I said, “just because I am white, you think I voted for Trump”? “Fuck, man” I am getting tired of hearing that".
He was quiet for a few minutes and then looked over at me and said " I did". "Really? "You voted for Trump?’ "Jesus Christ , bro, WTF?
He was quiet for a few minutes and said, “I voted for Trump because of my Daddy”
“Really, What Happened”?
It seems his father had been struggling for the past 5 years trying to keep his little business open, trying to comply with numerous regulations, transportation costs, and employee wages. He even tried to work out a deal with the local railroad to reduce shipping costs to no avail. One night is father called him. He was upset and crying. He thought his mother had died, but, no his father was upset because he had to lay off 4 of his long term employees.
'I was really upset, because those employees, I grew up around, that was the only job they had" cutting up meat for a living" . He was quiet for a few minutes and then said , “the next night , the White House was flying the Rainbow Flag”. “I don’t care who anybody fucks”, but, I do care about my Daddy" . The Democratics don’t care about us anymore, they don’t care about jobs or trash like you and me out here killing Johnny".
And they still don’t see the problem.
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idaho:
Let me say off the top, that I agree with you…the DEMS didn’t “get it”…and they probably still don’t based on the doubling-down of the same rhetoric that lost them elections from coast-to-coast, to the Congress and even the White House.
I also agree that Trump (NOT the GOP…the GOP just “rode-the-wave”…there is no way in Hell that the GOP as a whole wanted Trump to win this election)…Trump tapped into the frustration that you alluded to by your post.
My problem is this:
Trump tapped into the frustration of a lot of people, but has in many cases given them the wrong underlying problems with the wrong solutions.
History has proven over and over again that this is a volatile mix.
Believe me…Safe Spaces and PC run amuck aren’t the answer…but neither are building imaginary walls; shuffling the deck chairs of the Titanic to keep it from sinking when it comes to Health Care; promising an end to crony Capitalism (when you are not); putting Clinton in jail; and above all?.. promising an imaginary flood of high-paying/low-skilled jobs.
I’m not sure the GOP still gets it either. Their success in this election was based on 8 years of Obama and the fact the pendulum swings. And most importantly they had someone win who they didn’t want. I would say they had a bunch of individual wins, but not a win as a party.
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According to Obama, he’s been quite successful with terrorism.
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That’s ignorant dude. It’s almost always going to be a mistake to simply label a large group of supporters of ANY party or candidate as just a bunch of stupid people. There’s no question he garnered a ton of support from young people, but that doesn’t mean they were stupid as well. I doubt you think I’m stupid, and I supported him early on. My father is a PHD physicist who ran a hospital’s cancer department for a decade, and now runs a company in the mining industry, and he still supports Bernie. Blanket statements suck, my friend. I’m not suggesting he would have been a better candidate than Hillary. I think he would have lost too. But I hate hearing people I like saying things like what you’re saying, with absolutely no real evidence behind the statement.
That being said, I am interested in the main topic at hand. Hillary would have been a better candidate if she hadn’t been forced down our throats the way she was. And that’s what the party hasn’t learned. They can’t get out of machine-mode. The fact that we’re talking about Biden for 2020 is certainly evidence that the party hasn’t figured it out yet. But there’s a lot that still needs to play out to see where the Dems need to be in 4 years, and it will mostly center around Trump’s performance in office. If Trump absolutely shits the bed, gets impeached, leaves office for any reason, etc, then there is some room for the party to say ‘see? y’all done fucked up. The establishment doesn’t look so bad anymore, does it?’ But if he’s even REMOTELY successful, makes it through 4 years without any real disasters, then the party ABSOLUTELY has to shift directions drastically.
I also agree that they need to stop speaking for minorities, and try actually speaking TO them. And not just that, middle/lower class America as well. A fucking billionaire born into a fortune was actually able to convince the masses that HE is more of a man of the people than anyone the Dems could find. That’s fucked up.
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Of course, it’s ignorant, it was meant in jest…
Is it meant in jest? I have a feeling this is exactly how you describe Sanders supporters in real life.
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Do you think that the GOP separated themselves enough, during elections, from Trump to hedge their bets? Or, was Reince’s appointment enough to make Trump and the GOP one in the same.
Some of them, absolutely. It’s the same way I describe many Trump supporters too. The truth of the matter is that many American’s are stupid or at least ignorant and just repeat what they read or are told. For example, Zep is an idiot that blindly supported Bernie Sanders. FlipCollar is not.
If you ever read something I type and think I mean that to include all of a group you can rest assured I do not.
At any rate, it was meant to be a light-hearted jab, but I obviously should have thrown a smile on it. I didn’t mean any offense @toddrc.
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There is no real separation at the end of the day. At the end of the day, Trump was the nominee of the Republican party, and he won the election. And since the election, he’s been mostly embraced by the party. The only way you get separation is if party leaders jump ship pretty early on if they see things going south. Otherwise, it won’t be difficult for Dems to say ‘this is YOUR fault’ as a party.
Nope. It looks like they are doubling down on PCness, safe spaces, calling the American Flag a racist symbol, etc. They very things that cause people to pull the lever for trump.
If you call a majority of well meaning, hard working, people racists, xenophoes, homophobes, etc no matter how hard they try not to be those things, they get sick of it. They erect their middle finger, go tell you to fuck yourself and vote for trump.
The democrats lost this election more than trump won it. They did everything they could to drive away hardworking, well meaning people away.
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I saw this. It was insulting at best.
“Duh, uh nothing to see here folks, everything you heard was just a mirage. Appeasement works, just ask the people in Aleppo.”
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That will depend on how much of a spine Ryan et al. show in the coming months. If they slavishly do anything Trump wants, they will be one and the same. Some pushback when necessary may help them in creating a clear delineation.
I would say the Dems have learnt something, just the wrong things. The underlying assumption regarding identity politics are still there, their takeaway may be “always run minority candidates.”
As for the tone-deafness, the slavish lockstep California leftism, and the hardcore identity politics? Nah, that is gonna continue, on steroids.
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I disagree simply because as animated and excited as his base was, it was still a relatively small base. There is a hard line between his vision and the rest of the U.S. His vision is a non-starter for most people. They don’t want to just go around and breaking up banks and businesses because they are ‘mean’. They don’t want to tax the shit out of the people who provide the most labor. They don’t want to appease the terrorists and pretend like that isn’t a problem. They do not want rampant PCness to suppress their free speech rights. They don’t want redistribute wealth by the heavy hand of the government, etc.
This stuff appeals to young people and ultra libs who never had to do for themselves. But for hardworking people it’s a complete turn off.
His only advantage was that he wasn’t a dirty disgusting person and was apparently well meaning. But well meaning does not translate into good policy.
The reason I supported Hillary over Sanders was because she was crooked and could be bought. She did not have a strong ideological shift in mind for the country.
Obama is the most left president we have ever had and the things on his wish list completely disintegrated.
Healthcare reform- collapsing under it’s own weight. It’s going away either by policy or self destruction.
Russian Reset- fail
ME apology tour - the place has never been more violent
Iran Nuke Deal - Seems we are starting to see the cracks in that as Iranians continue to push it’s boundaries knowing we will not enforce minor violations.
Syrian Red Line- Humanitarian crisis of a magnitude little before seen in history.
Sanders represented the left of obama. No way he would have won.
If you break down the data, the country swung right at every level of government thoughout the country, from Congress to state legislators, to local and city representatives. The country wasn’t going with sanders.
There were plenty of things going on during the Presidential election. That is to say many reasons why the democrats lost. As I said many months ago it is difficult for one party to hang on to the Presidency three terms in a row. George HW Bush did it after an immensely popular two term President Ronald Reagan. Obama does have high popularity still as the press has not dealt with him as they should have. But Hillary did not have the charisma to pull it off. I knew she wouldn’t and she did not let me down. But that doesn’t mean the dems are finished not by a long shot.
They will have to get their collective asses kicked in at least one (maybe more) more election cycle but they will eventually wake up and throw Peolosi and Shummer out. What they are trying to do now makes no sense moving further to the left. But I do love watching them self-destruct. Does anyone think that in 2019 77 year old Joe Biden will throw his hat into the ring? Gee…I hope so.
Essentially what the American people said (not including the people who live in big Cities especially on the coasts) is the following:
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They are sick of political correctness. No one gets elected talking the way Trump did unless the electorate has totally had it with PC.
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They feel that the dems have taken a world view and they now want to put America first.
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The economy, even though the fake unemployment number is low, is in shambles. People do not have as much money in their pocket. Home ownership is at a low point and people are tired of the talk and wanted action.
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The electorate is really…really sick of terrorism on our shores. And I also think that the dems threatening to limit second amendment rights every time a maniac shoots at innocent people drove more votes to Trump.
With that said the current democrat leadership DOES NOT understand any of the above as they live in la la land. That is what I call California, New York and Washington DC. But I don’t think it will take them long to absorb the devastating loss and figure it out. As soon as they stop being the elite party and come back to the working class they will win again. I have no idea how long that will take. I am hoping that it will be several election cycles before they wake up. We need more conservatives elected to the House and Senate and more Governorships to be held by conservative republicans.
If this can happen and the republicans actually get things done it won’t matter if the dems wake up or not they will have a tough road ahead.
That is the only advantage that he would need. Being likable in this election would be more than enough and I can’t imagine Bernie polling to be more unfavorable than Clinton or Trump. Hillary was the worst candidate in our modern era. Policy means very little to the general public. This elections proves that.
I think you give too much credit to the average voter.
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No worries and I figured it was in jest. Even Jesus called some people stupid.
[quote=“norse84, post:38, topic:224180”]
"…Policy means very little to the general public. This elections proves that…[/quote]
This needed to be re-posted, norse84.
Very true.
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