All posts very interesting and each is laddled with eaches own opinions and views based upon their values and geographical location. You cannot expect a person to like the US policies if they have had bombs dropped on them by the US. Just as you cannot expect the US to run up and Kiss Osama Bin Laden after the Terrorist attacks. Every country has done something they should have not done and we all bear the burden of our elected leaders, no matter how they have come into power the citizens of that country will bear that burden. What is everybody doing about it? I live in America where I can say whatever I want without fear of retaliation from the government but what is it like to be born into a country where you have no choice? I could not even imagine. How many countries do you know of that before they drop a bomb hand out leafletts warning them that they have a weapon of mass destruction as we did in Japan? Then after the bombs were dropped we rebuilt their country and now we watch TV and drive around that countries products without a second thought. This is called politics. The US lies in bed with some countries that technically are terrorist of their own people and we do nothing about it. The US turns its head and lets it happen because the stakes are too high for the world. This is the name of the game and I ask, what is everybody doing about it if they do not like what is happening? You think crashing a plane into some buildings was the answer? Do not start something you cannot finish. Can the government really be trusted? Matter of opinion, but if the government has an agenda then they are going to see that they get the backing and support from the public that is needed in order to accomplish the task at hand. How is that done? Through the Media and Propoganda. Just watch the news and you will see the same story but different accounts and views of the same event. So what really happened? You the citizen are left to sort it out and make your own decision and form your own views of what you think is right or wrong. Again, you are trusting your elected officials to act upon your behalf and if you do not like what is happening then say so after all you have that right, some countries don’t and that is where the US policy comes into play to try and help these countries. It is my belief that the US governments policies are two fold, one to benefit the US and second to help in the aid of other countries. Why should we not benefit for helping out? Who is the first country everybody turns to for help whether it be financial or to fight a war? The United States. It is our countrymens sons and daughters that are going to be putting their lives on the line for that US policy, which by the way, they volunteered to do. They were not forced into it like other countries military, they volunteered. How many people do you know that sign on a line and agree to give their life to the government and become a piece of property for said amount of years? Our whole military has done that so we have every right to benefit. I may not agree with everything this country has done but believe me we are the most free and giving country that I have seen so far. So let the damn actors do whatever they want, they are free to do so, besides congress will be making a stink about how these same actors are in movies that are corrupting our society in another election year. For all the vets, for those of us that fight for it Freedom has a flavor that the protected will never know. God Bless America and NO, I will never forget.
I am Canadian and extremely pro-American. For some reason over the course of the last couple of years it has become all too popular for the Liberals (political party) and the liberal minded in Canada to par take in America bashing. This infuriates me to no end. The nature of these threads sometimes makes it hard to completely express one’s point of view but basically I cannot for the life of me understand how Canadians can bash our biggest trading partner, bash the country that for all intensive purposes is our protector due to the fact that our Federal goverment for the last 20 years has stripped away our military capability and with who we share the largest open border in the entire world with. People who try to defend/apologize for Hussein or his like seem to forget that if they were living in that country they probably would not be able to express any kind of opinion due to the controlling, oppressive nature of these regimes. Being able to express one’s opinion is a basic right of living in the free world which, as far as I am concerned, America is the leader of. But please, Canadians, celebrities etc., do not try to protect, apologize or defend countries/regimes who would love nothing better than to see the destruction and annilation of the Western World.
Eggnog I will admit my post was irrational wrote it early in the morning. The points you address are correct but let me offer a rebuttle against them. The individuals you refer to posturing against the USA are a direct result of the foriegn policy that the USA has regarding these countries. The USA only offers support to countries that have resources sufficent to warrant their interest (Kuwait etc). Countries that are vested trading partners or international powers garner the attention of the USA, little pheripheral countires are ignored. The free aid you refer to is given not out of alturism but out of trying to further increase the ability of the USA to institute their own policies. The USA has a long standing belief that their views are the correct ones and explicitly or implicitly tries to reinforce that with other countries.
The second point you adressed was that of Bush’s education, true I don’t hold any degrees from Yale or Harvard, but the factors that you ignore are who got him there (Bush Sr),what marks did he have (C’s)…with enough money anyone can buy an education. Ignorance is also shown towards the failures of Bush with regards to the oil companies that he was head of, which all failed. The comment “underestimating Bush”…any American should know that the president is a political figurehead who acts as a spokesperson for governmental policy. Bush has surrounded himself with good advisers and as such comes across as an intelligent individual (that point is debatable). I hold that the support staff of Bush was underestimated and they deserve the credit for what has happened not Bush.
The weapons of mass destruction comment I made was intended to highlight that the USA also has a very sizable stockpile of biological, chemical and nuclear weapons…if not directly in the USA in satilites that they control. I think that it is wrong to ask Iraq to abandon its arsenal of weapons when the USA has a similar stockpile. The disarmenent should go both ways. Disarming Iraq also leaves them open to an invasion by the USA, it is a political move if there was ever one. Disarming Iraq, robs them of their right to protect their own foriegn and soveirgn land. The USA has no right to invade or shape world policy just because they are the big kid, the USA tries to force their own views and morals on cultures that are uniquely different.
Regarding the interference of the weapons inspectors I was refering the the comments made by Hans Blixs in the media recently. Basically stating that the USA was undermining their ability to do their job and interfering with the searches. This point also deals with fact of the recent USA intelligence report released about Iraq and their capabilities. The report is paramount to spin, we the public were only given the information that would positively reflect on the government.
I am glad to see common ground regarding the puppet dictators. The USA deserves a good portion of the blame. Today’s freedom fighter becomes tommorows dictator. Effectively the USA creates the dictators be allowing them to be extensions of their foriegn policy. They are actors of the USA government and carry out there wishes. The actions of the USA government are well intentioned but act as a huge factor in regarding the world’s opinion of the USA. Outside of your own backyard your not that popular…ask people from other parts of the world regarding their impression of the USA and Americans.
In summary I am not anti american, but I am a person who thinks critically. The USA does act as a bully, that was evident from your statement about individuals in countries protesting. Bullying doesn’t have to take a explicit form it can come in the form of social, economic, political, industrial and numerous other forms, all of which the USA uses to gain what they want.
My education is that of a Masters Political Science Student with a concentration in International Studies
First to Hedo: The Woodward book is nothing but propaganda
Now to Chris Mangano: How has Hussein proven to be insane?
To Mace J: First they don’t have the technolgy to strike America with nukes. And as far as what would stop them, uh… how about the thousands of nuclear ICBM’s we have that would completely obliterate Iraq. Don’t buy into the WMD arguement, it is a ruse.
Eggnog, I completely agree with you in your comments regarding Hollywood celebrities. They are nothing but a bunch of pompous asses who the politicians use to help with their ridicilous agendas. Regarding your comment “They are flabbergasted by the fact that President Bush has done a wonderful job galvanizing our nation to face down tyranny” What about the tyranny of the Bush Administration? I’m speaking about the stealing of Americans civil liberties through The Patriot Act. What about the T.I.P.S. program he wanted to put in place? Americans spying on Americans. Reminds one of Nazi Germany days.
Remember Thomas Jefferson said that we are to protect ourselves from tyranny from abroad and from within.
Listen to Harkonnen as someone who lived in a country who was a recipient of American military might. I think if you asked most people who lived outside the U.S., they are against the war. The question is why? Do they know something we don’t? The sad truth is that most Americans are shielded from the truth by a duplicitous and knieving media. This goes for the NY Times as well as Rush Limbaugh. They are all propangandist machines for their own sides.
Two and a half years ago I would’ve been in complete agreement with you. I was a diehard conservative. I’d just walk into the voting booth and pull down the Republican lever. I listened to Rush on a daily basis. However, I’ve had my eyes opened up enough to see the lying and deciet spewed forth by him and others like him. The Neoconservatives are just as much a nightmare as the socialist democrats. I would have never believed it myself but I decided to read a few books given to me by a friend and things began to make much more sense. If you want to challenge your conventional political outlook try reading Noam Chompsky’s Manufacturing Consent. You may not agree with it but at least you’ll read a different viewpoint. Something that isn’t offered in the mass media.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my country to, but our most immediate danger is coming from within.
Hey Mark, I think this reply is coming right after yours, but anyway, I consider myself fairly conservative on most issues. However, I don’t think the conservative view is always to go to war or take military action in a given situation. The neo-conservatives you refer to, the far right, like Rush Limbaugh and his listeners, basically back-up and defend anything done by the Republican party. While Rush can be extreme in most of his views, many of his listeners are everyday working people like you and I who are just very conservative and care about their country. As I said earlier, I don’t think it’s wrong to support military action against Iraq, especially if one’s arrived at that decision by carefully considering all of the facts and making an informed choice. Right now, I do not support military action against Iraq by our government, and I am about as conservative as they come.
Like I said mark, Saddam is nuts. Do you think when push comes to shove and he’s cornered he isn’t gonna say “forget it” and do what he can, regardless of the consequences. Secondly, he doesn’t have to launch a nuke. All he has to do is get it into our country or near, then BLAM. Lets say that he can’t nuke us, what about Israel?
Scuds can hit Israel and with a nuclear warhead on them they don’t have to be that precise.bye
BigRipFreaky, I am 100% sure that most Canadiens share your viewpoint. I know the motivations for your ultra-left to try to gain political traction by bashing the U.S. We have our own ultra-left who talk without thinking. I also acknowledge that U.S. policy is not blameless. I have travelled extensively in Canada and I can attest to the friendship and respect that most Canadians have shown us. The feeling is mutual, believe me. However, we need to confront people like machiavelli. They need to understand that their stands are not popular nor are they usually based upon rational thought. Please join me in dispelling some of his/her illusions.
machiavelli. You have almost gained a capital letter not because of your sentiments, but because you articulated them much more clearly and sincerely.
You say we only support countries where we have direct interest. That is totally false. Have you ever heard of Somalia? What direct/indirect interest beyond the propagation of basic human rights did we have there? We lost men and material because you put our money where our mouth is. We believe in liberty and justice. Neither of which was being even remotely practiced in Somalia. That we ultimately failed is beside the point. We made the effort. Yes, it was altruistic.
Now for Bush’s education. Your line about $ being responsible for his education is the usual liberal line against priviledge. I absolutely disagree with you that his admission was due to $. Give me some proof. You can’t just throw things out there (like a liberal does) and it automatically becomes fact. Even if he did have help getting in, did his father take his exams? A C at Yale and Harvard is worth honors at just about any other institute of higher learning. Oh, he also flew jet aircraft. Did his Daddy pilot the jet? Did his father debate Al Gore to a standstill? Did his father bring down a very popular Texas governor (Ann Richards) and did his father get him elected to the governership of Texas twice? How did he do as the Ranger’s GM?
saddam hussein needs to be disarmed. The Iraqi people have been unable to remove him from power. I know several Iraqi’s and believe me they want nothing more than to have him removed. Anectdotal, yes, but it is direct (non-media based info.) He needs to be disarmed because he invades countries, gasses his own people, and sponsors terrorism. Pretty convincing argument I’d say. Thinking critically does not necessarily involve going against the grain. Please remember that. I am short of time, but I am looking forward to your thoughts.
IMHO, America is PERCEIVED to be a bully simply because they are the last super power left standing after the Cold War. As the world’s most powerfull country, economically as well as militarily, the rest of the world looks to the U.S. whenever there is trouble. The U.S. is usually one of the the first countries to stand up and offer aid, supplies etc. when another country experiences a natural disaster. When was the last time another country offered aid to the U.S. after a natural disaster has occured in America? When there is military trouble, the rest of the world looks to the U.S. for it’s help. I did not see any other country jumping up to lead the fight against Iraq when Iraq invaded Kuwait. As such, IMO, the U.S. does have a right to get involved around the world. The rest of the world cannot always come calling just in a time of need.
A picture is worth a thousand words…
www.hyperorg.com/blogger/ images/bushbinoculars.jpg
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
To the person that mentioned the Noam Chomsky books, great point. Noam Chomsky is a lecturer here at MIT and is arguably the most prominent polictical scientist in academia right now. I urge everyone that’s posted on this thread to read at least one of the man’s works. It’s astounding to my colleagues, and others in the intellectual community, that Bush has such high approval ratings, but then I read posts like these and I understand why. For God’s sake turn off your tvs and pick up a book on the subject…please for the sake of this country. If you are truly a proud American you should be asking yourself these questions:
Why Iraq now…after 10 years? Why weren’t you concerned about Iraq 5 years ago, but are now? Because Bush told you to be? What might be some motivations (don’t look to CNN please)?
Why Iraq instead of North Korea, who actually has the technology and missle systems to attack us, and who admits to selling such systems?
Why doesn’t the news mention that America, like Iraq, has a history of torturing and gassing its own people?
How is our economy doing? What is really responsible? Why did Chaney meet with Enron executives behind closed doors?
If our motivations for attacking Iraq are geniune, then why are we allies with Isreal? Why doesn’t the American media cover the war crimes commited by that regime?
Hundreds more…but I suspect that the rhetoric has been driven home so deeply that I will be accused of being “anti-american” or “sympathetic to the enemy.” It is so fucking sad how history repeats itself.
Hey, Realest, I have only one question for you. Did the U.S. really land on the moon?
To maceJ, If suitcase nukes are what your using as partial justification to wage war on a country who has done nothing to us I’d suggest waging war on Russia. Afterall they have mucho nuclear capabilities and are moving that stuff through Lithuania and are selling it to the highest bidder. Terrorist or not. Saddam may be a tyrant but I don’t see how that makes him nuts. However if the U.S. does wage war you can certainly expect him to retaliate. So get ready for some more terrorist attacts which is exactly what this so-called war is going to bring about. All hailBush! To Jcbart. The neo-cons have been branded the war party by many people and I do believe it fits. You may be more in line with the paleo-conservatives. Look them up. I realize people who listen to Rush are erveryday people. But Limbaugh has been mis-leading his “flock” with half-truths and smoke and mirrors for God knows how long. He’ll go on and on about democratic scandals but anytime a serious scandal comes up on the republican side he pooh-pooh’s it. He isn’t objective at all so why listen to someone who PURPOSELY misleads day in and day out? Do you really think people can arrive at a truly informed decision by watching tv, listening to major radio talk show hosts, and/or reading the newspaper? The media elite(which Limbaugh is a part of)have a stranglehold on information. They own the press and it is distorted for their ends. Sad but true. By the way I’m libertarian not conservative. To Tha Realest. Great commentary. So much different than most of the posts here which are just ramblings of people who are conditioned by the media to think a certain way. By the way have you ever heard of Rodney Stich? And what is your natural political persuasion? Peace to everyone.
All right, you two get the uncapitalized treatment.
Realest, why iraq now? Why not five years ago? THINK!!! Who was President five years ago? What happened when hussein openly flaunted his non-compliance with UN resolutions? Nothing. That is the usual post-1960’s democratic response. Talk. No action. Why iraq now? September 11th woke us all up to the dangers of weapons of mass destruction. We have had to evolve our thinking. We are currently undergoing a massive shift in our strategic thinking. We are now going to be participating in preemptive action. Why? We CANNOT AFFORD to absorb an attack from weapons of mass destruction. Read it again, WE CANNOT AFFORD TO ABSORB AN ATTACK FROM WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. Who uses them? hussein. He has gassed the Kurds. He has gassed the Iranians. Is he our enemy? Absolutely. We fought a war against him in 1991. dictators who survive a war like that do not forgive and forget a beating like that. Losing face, usually leads to the downfall of a dictator. Our culture and values highlight his weaknesses as a ruler and as a man. We are a direct affront to the repressive, brutality that he propogates every day. You can bet that every day he looks for ways to hurt the Americans. You can bet he will try to regain face. He had a meeting with his nuclear scientists earlier this year in which he told them that they would allow him to drive the infidel from the Middle East. Who is he talking about? Did you hear about the hit he tried to carry out against our former President?
realest, you start rambling pretty badly after this. “How is our economy doing?” Then you start talking about the Vice-President. What does that have to do with the rest of your post? Is this just constant anti-Bush garbage?
I used to see both sides of the Israeli-palestinian conflict. I used to be angry with both sides. After the palestinians starting using suicide bombers and attacking civilians, my sympathy is nearly 100% behind Israel. THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR ATTACKING PEOPLE IN MALLS AND SHOPS!!! I hope you do not try to defend suicide bombings against civilians in any way.
mark your post is absolutely sickening. IRAQ HAS DONE NOTHING TO US?!? This is what we know for sure. hussein has given the families of suicide bombers in Israel $35,000. He has tried to assassinate our former President. There has been unsubstantiated reports that he openly harbors al-qaeda and has sold vx nerve gas to them. Just wait a little while, and the proof will be forthcoming. The fact that he has gassed his own people, launched two aggressive wars (Iran, Kuwait), fired scuds at Israel, hired hitman and suicide bombers, and God knows what else behind the scenes, leads to one inevitable conclusion; he needs to go. There is no spin behind this. You cannot argue with the facts that he is a brutal dictator. Yes, history repeats itself again and again. History has repeatedly shown that the only way to deal with a brutual dictator is to confront him with overwhelming force.
I fully support your right to make your outlandish statements. However, it would be nice if you categorically went through my post and tried to refute ANY of it. I want direct responses to each of the points. No rambling. Good luck.
Mark and the Realest, make sure you expand your book reading range to cover opposing viewpoints. If you’ve read a few books written by people that you mostly agree with and then consider yourself an expert and the rest of your countrymen as merely sheep, you are being intellectually dishonest.
Even so, all is not lost. You can still become a professor at a public university, where intellectual honesty is actually a detriment.
Harkonnen, you can find that picture switched around to describe Bill Clinton. I can find that exact picture with the binocular caps off. It’s on strategypage.com. Take a look, it is merely Photoshopped. Nice try though! I hope the schools in Canada are better than those in Serbia.
Eggnog. Sorry, I have to jump in here and say this one thing only because I was in Somolia with First Battalion Seventh Marines. We were one of the first ones to arrive at the Embassy and we relieved the Marine Expeditionary Unit from that post, the same one you saw on TV, so much for a covert operation. You say that we, the US, had no other interests in Somolia other than to help people. Here is a little low down and you can call it the way you want it. I am only going to provide the information and you can fill in the blanks and draw your own conclusion. We were sent to Somolia at the end of Bush Sr. term. He had nothing to lose. Somolia, in case alot of people did not know is rich in oil. Oil that has not been tapped. There was a US company that had the rights to drill for that oil but that contract was established with a Somolian government that was no longer in power. The contract was close to expiring and would still stand if a government was restablished in Somolia, Bush held stock in this company that held this contract. One of our key missions in Somolia was to first and foremost restore the government, feeding the people was secondary and left to the UN. Ethiopia was having the same crisis as Somolia but yet we never went there on a humanitarian mission. We protected oil drillers that were not allowed to carry weapons as they ran their test equipment looking for oil oh, sorry water. The head of the oil drillers was getting paid 200,000.00 for six months worth of work. He was out of Texas and worked for the company that Bush Sr. held stock in, coincidence? He was there to drill wells so the Somolians could have water. I never did see one water well drilled out there. We set up lots of water purifiers and such but not one water well did I see drilled. I had spent just over six months in Somolia and we returned to the US. We turned over our posts to the Bostwanian troops. Clinton was now in office and the troops magically trickled back home and Somolia was not heard of again. The incident with the Rangers happened very shortly after we returned to the states. So much for our humanitarian effort. We must have done a damn good job feeding those people because you do not hear about Somolia anymore except for the fact of possibly being linked to Al Quida and General Ahdid. I have said it before and I will say it again. The US will not act and does not act unless it is somehow, someway going to benefit from it. I am very American but I am also very honest. Politics is the name of the game. Sure, there were starving people but it was a twofold operation. What better way to find oil and still look good to the world?
To Citizen of the World.
Firstly I discovered Noam Chompsky through a friend who happened to have different viewpoints than I. So it’s not like I had a certain viewpoint and then solely looked for people who I’d agree with. As for opposing viewpoints, you are conversing with a former dittohead. I’ll give you a cursory glance as to what’s on my bookshelf. The Conservative Intellectual Movement, by George Nash, Let Us Talk Of Many Things, by William F. Buckley Jr. The Marx Reader, The Portable Nietzche, The Story of Philosophy, Leftism Revisited, by ERik Von Kuenelt-Leddhin and Manufacturing Consent, by Chompsky to name a few. I think that is pretty well rounded.
To Eggnog. First you scream “IRAQ HAS DONE NOTHING TO US” and then you give a list of things he’s done to other people. What’s up with that? You say that Saddam has given money to suicide bombers. How is that a problem of the U.S.? Should we send our troops over there - to possibly get killed - for that reason? By the way, what do you think would posses anyone to take his own life in such a way? The fact is, Isrealies have been killing thousands of Palestines for years, mostly with equipment manufactured in the good ole’ U.S.of A. Palestine cannot match Isreal in conventional warfare and they have been driven to such measures for logical, albiet desparate, reasons. So he has tried to assasinate former President Bush and now we are supposed to go to war. It’s funny how you leave out all the political assisnations and governmnet undermining the C.I.A. has been implicated in over the years. And what am I suppose to think about unsubstantiated reports? Should I just believe them? C’mon they are politicans for God’s sake. There entire public life revolves around lying to the citizens of this country and stealing as many civil rights away as possible in order to have more control over the populous. They are predators! You say he needs to go because he gassed his own people, launched aggresive wars, etc…etc. Well what about the Branch Davidians, Ruby Ridge, and Vietnam for starters? I agree with you that he is a brutal dictator however we disagree in the role the U.S. should play in foreign affairs. We are not the world’s police. And our foriegn policy has been making us an immense amount of enimies over the years. If we continue on this path more destruction lay ahead for the citizens of this country. That is one of the main reasons I’m against the war. Thomas Jefferson warned against foreign entanglements and now I can see why. Why don’t we get our troops out of all those foreign countries where they don’t belong and bring them back home all in one piece. The main point in my reply to you is this: All of your assertions you’ve made against Saddam and his government can be made against our own governnment. I’ll leave you with a quote - War is to communism what propaganda is to democracy - Noam Chompsky. One more thing, I’m not trying to piss you off but please do yourself a favor and seek out some alternative media sources so you can listen to a completely different viewpoint to ensure your getting real balanced coverage. Here is one www.antiwar.com. No it’s not some 60’s leftist crap just a bunch of talented writers who aren’t under the gun of the corporate media. I think Pat Buchannon wrote an article or two for them. Take care.
Have we already forgotten Sept. 11. We cannot, should not, and will not live in fear of the actions of those who’s sole intention is to instill it. Saddam is a tyrant, plain and simple, believe it or not. His previous actions have already proven it. Weapons of mass destruction in the hands of a tyrant is like playing russian roulette with a fully loaded gun, when the trigger finally gets pulled someones brains are going to be splattered all over the wall. Are you ready to play? Im not as good with words when it comes to topics such as these so Ill let others sum up some of my feelings
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
–John Stuart Mill
“Freedom can be a frightening thing when you are not used to it.” – Zana Muhsen
Find out just what the people will submit to and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.
? Frederick Douglass, civil rights activist, Aug. 4, 1857
When Hitler came for the Jews… I was not a Jew, therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. Then, Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church ? and there was nobody left to be concerned.
? Pastor Martin Niemoller, Congressional Record, October 14, 1968, vol. 114, p. 31636.
Samuel Adams If men, through fear, fraud, or mistake, should in terms renounce or give up any natural right, the eternal law of reason and the grand end of society would absolutely vacate such renunciation. The right to freedom being the gift of Almighty God, it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave.
Saint Thomas Aquinas Because of the diverse conditions of humans, it happens that some acts are virtuous to some people, as appropriate and suitable to them, while the same acts are immoral for others, as inappropriate to them
John Hay The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it.
Thomas Jefferson The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetuate it.
D. H. Lawrence Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grand-children are once more slaves.
Can’t we all just get along-Rodney King