Delay's Days Dwindling?

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:

Washington Times, DeLay’s Conspiracy Charge Rejected

Washington Post, Felony Charge Is Upheld For DeLay

New York Times, Texas Judge Lets Stand 2 of 3 Charges Against DeLay

Fox News, Judge Tosses DeLay Conspiracy Charges

LA Times, Judge Upholds DeLay Money-Laundering Charges

CNN, DeLay Conspiracy Charge Tossed Out

MSNBC, DeLay Money-Laundering Charges Upheld[/quote]

So CNN has essentially the exact same headline as Fox, proving that there really is no liberal media bias.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:

One of the charges was dropped because the prosecution was so incompetent (to give them the benefit of the doubt) that they charged DeLay with an Ex Post Facto charge, saying he violated a law before it was passed. Quite a technicality.[/quote]

Yes, quite. but still a technicality.

Convicted or not, the damage is done. Tommy-boy is toast politically, his reelection is circling the drain.

[quote]mark57 wrote:
Convicted or not, the damage is done. Tommy-boy is toast politically, his reelection is circling the drain.

[/quote]

You don’t have a very deep grasp of Texas politics, do you?

He will have to be convicted, and prohibited from running for him not to get re-elected.

Well, it at least shows that CNN asked a lawyer what the newsworthy item was and went with it, rather than with trying to further (or subconsciously going with) its political leanings.

Now, how about the ol’ NYT, LAT, WAPO and MSNBC?

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:

BostonBarrister wrote:

Washington Times, DeLay’s Conspiracy Charge Rejected

Washington Post, Felony Charge Is Upheld For DeLay

New York Times, Texas Judge Lets Stand 2 of 3 Charges Against DeLay

Fox News, Judge Tosses DeLay Conspiracy Charges

LA Times, Judge Upholds DeLay Money-Laundering Charges

CNN, DeLay Conspiracy Charge Tossed Out

MSNBC, DeLay Money-Laundering Charges Upheld

mark57 wrote:

So CNN has essentially the exact same headline as Fox, proving that there really is no liberal media bias.

Well, it at least shows that CNN asked a lawyer what the newsworthy item was and went with it, rather than with trying to further (or subconsciously going with) its political leanings.

Now, how about the ol’ NYT, LAT, WAPO and MSNBC?
[/quote]

What about them? Are they lies? Why downplay what’s happening at all? I sure as hell don’t trust the man just because he’s Republican. Is that why you do?

[quote]mark57 wrote:

So CNN has essentially the exact same headline as Fox, proving that there really is no liberal media bias.[/quote]

To note, it was a piece written by an AP wire service reporter, not penned by a FOX or a CNN journalist. So any bias would be placed at AP.

The decision to post it as news by a FOX or CNN may or may not show a bias by the big network - depends on how the wire service story or package of stories is purchased.

[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:

Washington Times, DeLay’s Conspiracy Charge Rejected

Washington Post, Felony Charge Is Upheld For DeLay

New York Times, Texas Judge Lets Stand 2 of 3 Charges Against DeLay

Fox News, Judge Tosses DeLay Conspiracy Charges

LA Times, Judge Upholds DeLay Money-Laundering Charges

CNN, DeLay Conspiracy Charge Tossed Out

MSNBC, DeLay Money-Laundering Charges Upheld

mark57 wrote:

So CNN has essentially the exact same headline as Fox, proving that there really is no liberal media bias.

BostonBarrister wrote:

Well, it at least shows that CNN asked a lawyer what the newsworthy item was and went with it, rather than with trying to further (or subconsciously going with) its political leanings.

Now, how about the ol’ NYT, LAT, WAPO and MSNBC?

Professor X wrote:

What about them? Are they lies? Why downplay what’s happening at all? I sure as hell don’t trust the man just because he’s Republican. Is that why you do?[/quote]

No, they aren’t lies, though I think even using the word “upheld” without explaining the nature of a preliminary motion to dismiss is misleading. And it’s not about “downplaying,” it’s about being correct – especially in the description of what the ruling means. In the headline, it’s focusing on the actual newsworthy item.

As to DeLay, I don’t recall saying or implying that I trusted him. He’s the guy who said he couldn’t find any pork to cut in the federal budget (though he later claimed to be joking - I thought it was a rather unconvincing claim).

What I really don’t like is partisan political witch-hunts utilizing the judiciary. BTW, I wonder what the reaction would be to the application of Earle’s interesting legal theories on political funding to unions?

[quote]mark57 wrote:

Convicted or not, the damage is done. Tommy-boy is toast politically, his reelection is circling the drain.

[/quote]

Where are you from? He’ll come out of this stronger in his district.

Boston,

Believe it or not most of the world does NOT consist of lawyers.

Hence, news headlines are generally geared to the public.

I don’t see how this is hard to comprehend… besides, it isn’t like the news organizations are composed of lawyers either.

Your stance would basically be the same as me arguing the technical issues with respect to some computing issue… the media gets it wrong all the time, but it isn’t due to bias.

It’s still a crock.

Now, as to the case at hand, the fact that some of the issues were tossed out is significant. However, with respect to all the “it will never get anywhere talk”, that is where the bias is around here.

If he is guilty he should be found guilty and punished. Given the state of the corruption in government, which everyone willingly admits – at least until an indictment against their party – it isn’t a surprise to imagine he could be guilty.

All hate mongering concerning Earle aside, the fact he has bailed out of previous indictment efforts does certainly color the matter.

Interesting.

This might be interesting background information for some…

‘The Big Buy’ spent two years tracking Ronnie Earle
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15375881&BRD=2318&PAG=461&dept_id=484045&rfi=6
[i]
Texas filmmakers Mark Birnbaum and Jim Schermbeck planted themselves on history?s doorstep two years ago when they started filming Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle as he investigated Congressman Tom DeLay (R-Sugar Land) and his Political Action Committee, Texans for a Republican Majority.

MB: I gotta say that the story we sought to tell was not exactly dramatic, but we thought it was important, that plan that began with [the Texans for a Republican Majority Political Action Committee] to dominate politics in the state of Texas and ultimately in the United States by first winning these elections in 2002, the state elections, then pushing through off-year redistricting, redrawing the map, so that in 2004 they could win a majority in Congress a perfectly legal plan, all according to the way the system is supposed to work, but for one alleged fact: For the first step of their plan, to win the 2002 elections in Texas, they used corporate money for political purposes a felony since 1905. And when Ronnie found out about that, he said, You can?t do that. It?s against the law.
[/i]

[quote]vroom wrote:
However, with respect to all the “it will never get anywhere talk”, that is where the bias is around here.[/quote]

If you are not familiar with Texas politics, you might think that it is indeed bias. But you would be wrong.

You have to remember that this is a local case involving Texas law. It just so happens that it is being played out in front of a national audience. Tip O’Neal said it best when he said ,“all politics is local”. To not understand the mindset of locals is your first mistake in leading you to believe that this is a bias.

Delay could be guilty as sin - but unless Ronnie Earle has sudenly become a wunder prosecuter, the jury will not come back with a guilty verdict. That is not bias - that is just how it works around here. Throw in the fact that this is not the first time Earle has had trumped up charges thrown out pre-trial, and you are looking at a very, very long uphill battle for the over-eager DA. Not bias - just the way things are.

[quote]All hate mongering concerning Earle aside, the fact he has bailed out of previous indictment efforts does certainly color the matter.
[/quote]

Coloring the matter does not even begin to describe what Dick DeGuerin is going to do to Earle’s credibility. I would look for him to be on trial here as much as DeLay.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
vroom wrote:
However, with respect to all the “it will never get anywhere talk”, that is where the bias is around here.

If you are not familiar with Texas politics, you might think that it is indeed bias. But you would be wrong.

You have to remember that this is a local case involving Texas law. It just so happens that it is being played out in front of a national audience. Tip O’Neal said it best when he said ,“all politics is local”. To not understand the mindset of locals is your first mistake in leading you to believe that this is a bias.

Delay could be guilty as sin - but unless Ronnie Earle has sudenly become a wunder prosecuter, the jury will not come back with a guilty verdict. That is not bias - that is just how it works around here. Throw in the fact that this is not the first time Earle has had trumped up charges thrown out pre-trial, and you are looking at a very, very long uphill battle for the over-eager DA. Not bias - just the way things are.

All hate mongering concerning Earle aside, the fact he has bailed out of previous indictment efforts does certainly color the matter.

Coloring the matter does not even begin to describe what Dick DeGuerin is going to do to Earle’s credibility. I would look for him to be on trial here as much as DeLay.

[/quote]

Does that make you proud? You imply that Texas is so biased that the facts aren’t even on trial, but that “Earl” is.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Does that make you proud? You imply that Texas is so biased that the facts aren’t even on trial, but that “Earl” is.[/quote]

Given the fact that I believe DeLay is innocent, and given Earle’s track record of using his office to go after his political enemies, I think Earle’s credibility should very much be on trial.

Am I proud of it? No - I think it is a sad day for the justice system when assholes like Earle are allowed to pin their ears back and go after innocent people. While I can’t say that is the case wrt to DeLay - yet, I do know that he tried the same underhanded tactics with Kay Bailey-Hutchison, and she was completely exonerated. I’m not sure but what Earle didn’t even drop the charges mid-trial.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Given the fact that I believe DeLay is innocent, [/quote]

Why?

[quote]vroom wrote:
This might be interesting background information for some…

‘The Big Buy’ spent two years tracking Ronnie Earle
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15375881&BRD=2318&PAG=461&dept_id=484045&rfi=6
[i]
Texas filmmakers Mark Birnbaum and Jim Schermbeck planted themselves on history?s doorstep two years ago when they started filming Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle as he investigated Congressman Tom DeLay (R-Sugar Land) and his Political Action Committee, Texans for a Republican Majority.

MB: I gotta say that the story we sought to tell was not exactly dramatic, but we thought it was important, that plan that began with [the Texans for a Republican Majority Political Action Committee] to dominate politics in the state of Texas and ultimately in the United States by first winning these elections in 2002, the state elections, then pushing through off-year redistricting, redrawing the map, so that in 2004 they could win a majority in Congress a perfectly legal plan, all according to the way the system is supposed to work, but for one alleged fact: For the first step of their plan, to win the 2002 elections in Texas, they used corporate money for political purposes a felony since 1905. And when Ronnie found out about that, he said, You can?t do that. It?s against the law.
[/i][/quote]

This might be interesting background for others – not available online:

Ronnie vs. Tom
The real fight behind the DeLay case

BYRON YORK

There’s no all-purpose guidebook for such things, but generally when a Washington official is indicted, he confidently proclaims his innocence and then announces ? with great regret ? that he will not be able to say anything more about the case. That’s how it’s usually done, but it’s not how House majority leader Tom DeLay chose to do it.

“This morning, in an act of blatant political partisanship, a rogue district attorney in Travis County, Texas, named Ronnie Earle charged me with one count of criminal conspiracy,” DeLay told reporters in Washington on September 28, hours after he was accused of campaign-finance-related violations. The indictment, DeLay continued, was “a reckless charge wholly unsupported by the facts. This is one of the weakest, most baseless indictments in American history. It’s a sham, and Mr. Earle knows it.”

With that, DeLay pretty much set the stage for what will be known in the courtroom as The State of Texas vs. Thomas Dale DeLay, but will be known everywhere else as Ronnie vs. Tom.

In one way, Earle opened himself up to the attack by choosing to include almost no evidence against DeLay, not only in the first indictment of DeLay on conspiracy charges, but also in a hastily drawn second indictment on money-laundering charges handed up on October 3 (many of the crimes alleged in the indictment are said to have occurred on October 4, 2002, and Earle was apparently rushing to press charges before the three-year statute of limitations expired). Indeed, one can read both documents and still be unable to discern what Earle has actually accused DeLay of doing, other than being part of something that allegedly violated a Texas law against corporate political contributions.

It was that very lack of specificity ? coupled with the arcane nature of the law involved ? that allowed DeLay to turn the indictments into a question about Ronnie Earle. If there had been clear, solid evidence of misconduct in the charges, then the public and the press would have had actual facts to work with, some grounds on which to say that DeLay did wrong. But there wasn’t. So now it is the congressman versus the prosecutor. And the early rounds appear to go to . . . the congressman.

For years, at least as long as the investigation has been going on, DeLay’s defenders have portrayed Earle, an elected Democrat, as a partisan prosecutor out to bring down a strong Republican leader. To support that charge, they point to Earle’s high-profile indictment of Republican senator Kay Bailey Hutchison ? a charge that was thrown out of court in what was undoubtedly Earle’s greatest professional failure ? as well as Earle’s attendance at a May 12, 2005, fundraiser in Dallas for a Democratic group called the Texas Values in Action Coalition. That organization was formed to “raise campaign money and take control of the state legislature from the GOP,” according to the article in the Houston Chronicle that originally reported Earle’s presence at the event. In his remarks there, Earle talked about the DeLay investigation. “This case is not just about Tom DeLay,” he said. “If it isn’t this Tom DeLay, it’ll be another one, just like one bully replaces the one before.”

For their part, Earle’s defenders point out that he has prosecuted more Democratic politicians than Republicans, although all of the Democrats were smaller fry than DeLay and Hutchison. But there may be another explanation.

Of course Earle is a Democrat. He wants to see Democrats win elections. But in his prosecution he may be driven by a passion that exceeds even partisanship: an almost evangelical desire to rid the political system of what he believes is the evil influence of money. Combine that with Earle’s well-known taste for publicity, and you have a potent mix.

Both are on display in a new movie, The Big Buy, by two Texas filmmakers, Mark Birnbaum and Jim Schermbeck. Earle gave the team what Birnbaum called “extraordinary access” to his office during the DeLay investigation. The resulting movie ? it’s being finished now, but National Review obtained an advance copy ? bills itself as a “crime story,” with DeLay as the criminal and Earle as the cop.

A cop ? and a preacher. “The root of the evil of the corporate and large-moneyed-interest domination of politics is money,” Earle says in the film. “This is in the Bible. This isn’t rocket science. The root of all evil truly is money, especially in politics. People talk about how money is the mother’s milk of politics. Well, it’s the devil’s brew. And what we’ve got to do, we’ve got to turn off the tap.” (When the film finally comes out, many viewers will undoubtedly point out that the Bible says it is the love of money that is the problem, not the simple existence of money, but the scene underscores Earle’s sense of righteousness as he approaches the DeLay prosecution.)

In The Big Buy, Earle also describes corporate political contributions, which are outlawed in Texas, as “every bit as insidious as terrorism.” He also suggests that other crimes ? he mentions murder, rape, robbery, theft, and child abuse ? might spring from alleged misdeeds like DeLay’s. “It’s hard to see the connection between the abuse of the democratic process and dealing crack, for example, or robbing a 7-11,” Earle says, “but there is a connection, and my people are beginning to understand that.”

Finally, Earle believes that he, Ronnie Earle, is the man to spread the message. “I feel great pressure to get the information to the public,” he says, “to point, to set a tone and to point a direction, and to say which hill needs to be taken.”

The Ronnie Earle that emerges from The Big Buy is a man with an unshakable determination that he is right and an almost messianic desire to spread the word. What he has beyond most other people who share those traits is the ability to use the power of the Travis County District Attorney’s Office. And use it he will. “It’s important that we forgive those who come to us in a spirit of contrition and the desire for forgiveness,” he explains in the movie. “But if they don’t, then God help them.” (The film then dissolves to a picture of DeLay.)

Now, it may turn out that Earle has some compelling evidence against DeLay that only he knows about. But in public at least, his case looks weak, which may end up helping the man Earle wants to convict. In the long run, of course, if DeLay is not guilty, he might well be strengthened by having been unfairly attacked. And even in the short run, Earle’s indictment might be a benefit for its target.

In this way: Many Republicans, both in Washington and in Texas, are concerned about DeLay’s connections to the lobbyist Jack Abramoff, now under indictment for some alleged crimes and under investigation for a variety of others. Some who might otherwise be DeLay allies know that Abramoff is bad news, and they are wary of DeLay’s ties to him: Last April, National Review’s editors wrote, “You can choose your friends, and DeLay’s supporters cringe to see sleazy insiders like Jack Abramoff profiting from their relationship with him.” Given that, few conservative commentators have been inclined to support DeLay, for the simple reason that they didn’t know what other evidence might exist to tie him to Abramoff.

That’s where Ronnie Earle comes in. By indicting DeLay on one specific, limited, and possibly unjustified charge, Earle has allowed DeLay’s reticent allies to defend him on that one specific, limited, and possibly unjustified charge. And right now, DeLay is happy to get the help.

That’s surely not what Ronnie Earle had in mind, but it is the practical effect of The State of Texas vs. Thomas Dale DeLay.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Given the fact that I believe DeLay is innocent,

Why?[/quote]

Because of who went after him, how long it took for Earle to indict, and because I don’t think that he did anything illegal. Playing in the gray, maybe - but he looks like a girl scout compared to Clinton/Gore’s prostitution for campaign money.

Besides - Delay has to be PROVEN guilty by Earle in front of a jury, not the press. It is not incumbent on him to prove his innocence.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Given the fact that I believe DeLay is innocent,

Why?

Because of who went after him, how long it took for Earle to indict, and because I don’t think that he did anything illegal. Playing in the gray, maybe - but he looks like a girl scout compared to Clinton/Gore’s prostitution for campaign money.

Besides - Delay has to be PROVEN guilty by Earle in front of a jury, not the press. It is not incumbent on him to prove his innocence. [/quote]

Wow. There was no talk of being PROVEN guilty when this forum was discussing the Micheal Jackson trial.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Given the fact that I believe DeLay is innocent,

Why?

Because of who went after him, how long it took for Earle to indict, and because I don’t think that he did anything illegal. Playing in the gray, maybe - but he looks like a girl scout compared to Clinton/Gore’s prostitution for campaign money.

Besides - Delay has to be PROVEN guilty by Earle in front of a jury, not the press. It is not incumbent on him to prove his innocence.

Wow. There was no talk of being PROVEN guilty when this forum was discussing the Micheal Jackson trial.[/quote]

Classic. You two managed to bring both Clinton and MJ into the discussion!

[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Given the fact that I believe DeLay is innocent,

Why?

Because of who went after him, how long it took for Earle to indict, and because I don’t think that he did anything illegal. Playing in the gray, maybe - but he looks like a girl scout compared to Clinton/Gore’s prostitution for campaign money.

Besides - Delay has to be PROVEN guilty by Earle in front of a jury, not the press. It is not incumbent on him to prove his innocence.

Wow. There was no talk of being PROVEN guilty when this forum was discussing the Micheal Jackson trial.[/quote]

Go back and look - I never thought he was guilty of anything other than being a whacko. I don’t believe it is right to try and convict a man in the press like has been done recently. It is nothing more than a mob mentality without the ropes.

[quote]doogie wrote:
Classic. You two managed to bring both Clinton and MJ into the discussion!
[/quote]

I have to concede that getting an MJ analogy into a Tom DeLay debate takes a much keener stroke than I have.