[quote]jjay wrote:
Dude, stop taking all these drugs .
Do a google search on gynecomastia you will find out everything you want to know from medical people ! [/quote]
LOL! I’m taking “these drugs” (letro, nolva) So that I won’t have to spend 2500+ on gynecomastia surgery!! I have spent the past month, searching gyno, and gyno reversal on tons of other message boards. I believe that a little hairloss and 100 dollars worth of SERMs and AIs is a small price to pay considering the consequences I MAY have by trying to “let my body take care of this problem itself”. I don’t exactly understand where you are coming from.
I don’t know , Those drugs are to fight cancer and tumors stuff like that . I hear you about getting back to normal but that stuff has its own side effects .
From what I’ve read drug induced gyno is temporary and will disappear 90% of the time when the cause is eliminated .
Don’t research on boards go to Web MD stuff like that. Anyone can post on a board.
I did the PCT to-the-dot as given to me on a few websites from the company anabolic xtreme. It only including rebound XT, which so happens to be another AI. Soo, if superdrol itself suppresses estrogen and my PCT was only another AI…it makes sense to me why this happened.
[/quote]
What you did was not proper PCT. rebound xt and that other nolva xt or whatever shit is bullshit. Im talking real PCT like nolva / clomid. So to repeat my last question:
[quote]Cartman8675 wrote:
Split wrote:
Cartman8675 wrote:
BTW, i have read that the gyno is not caused by superdrol aromatizing into estrogen. But rather, caused by an estrogen rebound that occurs in the body after discontinuing use because superdrol cuts off estrogen.
And this can be prevented with proper PCT correct?
Relax dude. I know everyone is different but your experience with superdrol is no different from many guys I know, me included. Mine stayed puffy for a long ass time but have been fine since. Also the lumpy feeling you had, same with me. Went away after a while and it freaked me out a bit intially as well. I have since done a few more superdrol cycles. So I think you will be just fine.
In the mean time to get rid of the puffiness, get your girl to suck on them and see what happens to them bad boys.
[quote]Cartman8675 wrote:
lattimus wrote:
So you are an 18 yrs old … ok. You do realize that when you say that you are getting nolvadex XT, that is just another crap supplement? It is not tamoxifen citrate, which is the active ingredient in the trade name “nolvadex”.
Now on to what you need to do. You should get some letrozole. You can buy this at most “research chemical” sites. A lot of guys have used this to rid themselves of gyno. The protocol based off on Anthony Roberts goes like this “use it at a dose of 2.5mgs/day, tapering down to .25mgs/day, and then finally off”. Only thing that I don’t know is how long to run at 2.5mg/day. I guess 1-2 weeks would be sufficient.
Thanks for your input. However, I’m not sure you read my previous post. My nolvadex (REAL nolva) and letro should arrive tomorrow afternoon if everything goes well with the shipping. I did NOT get the novadex XT.
My question now, is should they be taken together, or separately? Seeing how one will destroy any estrogen in my body and the other will just occupy the receptors?
One more thing…I’m stressing balls over this one. Does anyone have a guestimate of my chances of ridding this “mild” case of gyno??? Never before done AAS, except the superdrol for 1 month. Have been off for 2 months and have protruding nips that are very sensitive and have little lumps behind them. Never had gyno as a kid, and have fairly low body fat percentage. To the “untrained” eye, just looks like my nips naturally stick out a little more. LOL. Thanks guys.[/quote]
Agree, PCT could have been better but Rebound did the trick for me. Once I started taking it that was. I did not take anything post-superdrol initially.
[quote]Split wrote:
I did the PCT to-the-dot as given to me on a few websites from the company anabolic xtreme. It only including rebound XT, which so happens to be another AI. Soo, if superdrol itself suppresses estrogen and my PCT was only another AI…it makes sense to me why this happened.
What you did was not proper PCT. rebound xt and that other nolva xt or whatever shit is bullshit. Im talking real PCT like nolva / clomid. So to repeat my last question:
Cartman8675 wrote:
Split wrote:
Cartman8675 wrote:
BTW, i have read that the gyno is not caused by superdrol aromatizing into estrogen. But rather, caused by an estrogen rebound that occurs in the body after discontinuing use because superdrol cuts off estrogen.
And this can be prevented with proper PCT correct?
[/quote]
I did the PCT to-the-dot as given to me on a few websites from the company anabolic xtreme. It only including rebound XT, which so happens to be another AI. Soo, if superdrol itself suppresses estrogen and my PCT was only another AI…it makes sense to me why this happened.
What you did was not proper PCT. rebound xt and that other nolva xt or whatever shit is bullshit. Im talking real PCT like nolva / clomid. So to repeat my last question:
Cartman8675 wrote:
Split wrote:
Cartman8675 wrote:
BTW, i have read that the gyno is not caused by superdrol aromatizing into estrogen. But rather, caused by an estrogen rebound that occurs in the body after discontinuing use because superdrol cuts off estrogen.
And this can be prevented with proper PCT correct?
[/quote]
I don’t understand what you are saying. Are you trying to rub in my face the fact that I trusted a company to inform me on proper PCT protocals for a product that they marketed and produced? Well sir, please forgive me. Don’t shame me yet, this is the first time I’ve been fooled.
And to answer your question, YES, this probably could have been avoided if I had followed up my cycle using nolvadex.
Try taking pics of your hair line if you have access to a digital camera. It could just be freaking you out, or you may be losing your hair but hopefully its just temporary with your letro cycle. But anyway I’d say take a few pics each week and see, unless you are noticing alot of hair on your pillow or in the drain after showers. Thats cool the letro took care of your gyno, I’d say if its already mostly gone either get off it or lower your dosage. Either way keep up the progress.
Try taking pics of your hair line if you have access to a digital camera. It could just be freaking you out, or you may be losing your hair but hopefully its just temporary with your letro cycle. But anyway I’d say take a few pics each week and see, unless you are noticing alot of hair on your pillow or in the drain after showers. Thats cool the letro took care of your gyno, I’d say if its already mostly gone either get off it or lower your dosage. Either way keep up the progress.
[/quote]
Thanks for the support. I’m stopping the letro today, and gonna continue to run nolva for a while longer. I know for a fact it’s not me freaking out about my hair because I wasn’t the one that noticed it first. It was my girlfriend, and then my parents both confronted me because they noticed my hairline receeding more and me “getting too big” haha. My hair still looks fine and I’m not gonna sit here and worry about it because that won’t get me anywhere.
Also there was a few people that tried Letro for gyno that you may want to see if it caused them any hairloss, I think the thread was letro, femara. Without knowing much about it I couldn’t tell you much about letro, even the website for the product doesn’t say much.
Oh well good luck, since you are noticing it you could try that Rogaine. I think though once you use it, you always have to use it. But atleast it would probably help, and once you do some research on it and think you want to use it I’ve seen that stuff on Ebay before. So that would probably help with the cost a bit. Hopefully its just temporary.
Also visually it may look like a different, but if its falling out or whatever you should see signs of hair loss like I said mostly on pillows or washing your hair if you see a bunch on your hands. If you are that sucks but oh well its only hair, and if you are prone to it, it may just be natural.
I’ve got friends that started losing theirs in high school. And you aren’t doing anything illegal so you should be able to talk to your doctor about it.
Heres another update. I’m doing great! Maybe that’s just the vicodin talking, btw, I had my wisdom teeth out today and I’m feeling loopy from all the novacaine and vicodin.
I’m currently taking 20 mg nolvadex every night. The lump is GONE!! not reduced, not hiding, it is gone! I was only on the letrozole for a full 5 days and that is it. I quit using because my hair was falling out RAPIDLY. I advise anyone planning on using letro to reconsider especially if they have a predisposition for hair loss! So I think i can attribute most of my success the the nolva. My nipples now are only slightly puffy, no soreness or tenderness, however, itch every once and a while. I think in another 2 weeks I’ll stop the nolva and see how I do.
I just wanted to thank everyone for their help, I was really freaked out when it happened, and I knew I could turn to the nation for support and advice. I learned a valuable lesson from all this. I love my body, shouln’t be putting this kind of shit in it. I can only hope that some younger guys may have read this and took it heart, maybe learned something from another’s mistake instead of learning it the hard way. I’ll leave this with a quote I can somewhat remember: “an intelligent man will learn from his mistakes, a wise man will learn from others’ mistakes”.
[quote]Cartman8675 wrote:
Heres another update. I’m doing great! Maybe that’s just the vicodin talking, btw, I had my wisdom teeth out today and I’m feeling loopy from all the novacaine and vicodin.
I’m currently taking 20 mg nolvadex every night. The lump is GONE!! not reduced, not hiding, it is gone! I was only on the letrozole for a full 5 days and that is it. I quit using because my hair was falling out RAPIDLY. I advise anyone planning on using letro to reconsider especially if they have a predisposition for hair loss! So I think i can attribute most of my success the the nolva. My nipples now are only slightly puffy, no soreness or tenderness, however, itch every once and a while. I think in another 2 weeks I’ll stop the nolva and see how I do.
I just wanted to thank everyone for their help, I was really freaked out when it happened, and I knew I could turn to the nation for support and advice. I learned a valuable lesson from all this. I love my body, shouln’t be putting this kind of shit in it. I can only hope that some younger guys may have read this and took it heart, maybe learned something from another’s mistake instead of learning it the hard way. I’ll leave this with a quote I can somewhat remember: “an intelligent man will learn from his mistakes, a wise man will learn from others’ mistakes”.
[/quote]
I’m happy you were able to overcome the gyno, hugh relief I’m sure. I take it you finished up the nolva and are completely back to normal now? I was also curious does anyone now how long you can have gyno before nolva isn’t effective anymore?
[quote]wilpwr wrote:
Cartman8675 wrote:
Heres another update. I’m doing great! Maybe that’s just the vicodin talking, btw, I had my wisdom teeth out today and I’m feeling loopy from all the novacaine and vicodin.
I’m currently taking 20 mg nolvadex every night. The lump is GONE!! not reduced, not hiding, it is gone! I was only on the letrozole for a full 5 days and that is it. I quit using because my hair was falling out RAPIDLY. I advise anyone planning on using letro to reconsider especially if they have a predisposition for hair loss! So I think i can attribute most of my success the the nolva. My nipples now are only slightly puffy, no soreness or tenderness, however, itch every once and a while. I think in another 2 weeks I’ll stop the nolva and see how I do.
I just wanted to thank everyone for their help, I was really freaked out when it happened, and I knew I could turn to the nation for support and advice. I learned a valuable lesson from all this. I love my body, shouln’t be putting this kind of shit in it. I can only hope that some younger guys may have read this and took it heart, maybe learned something from another’s mistake instead of learning it the hard way. I’ll leave this with a quote I can somewhat remember: “an intelligent man will learn from his mistakes, a wise man will learn from others’ mistakes”.
I’m happy you were able to overcome the gyno, hugh relief I’m sure. I take it you finished up the nolva and are completely back to normal now? I was also curious does anyone now how long you can have gyno before nolva isn’t effective anymore? [/quote]
No, I’m still on the nolva, currently taking 20 mg ed. I had gyno for 2 months before I started any real treatment. By then the lump was pretty hard and very sensitive, after being on the nolva for 3 weeks now, the lump first softened up, then started to decrease in size. They are still slightly sensitive, however, I’m no longer worried about it.
Hey Cartman,
Let me first say this is not a jab at you. In fact I think your insight into this would be HIGHLY valuable. Can you fill me in on the way you were taking SD as well as the volume and dosage of your PCT. On with the letter. You are not the only one to have this happen to him.
So I have been reading and studying on line about an interesting topic. The use of Superdrol and delayed gynecomastia. For that matter there are a few orals that have become associated with delayed gyno, halodrol, MT1 etc. Now I know that there are many factors to this but I was focused on the use of Superdrol because of it proliferation. In any event, what I see is that the user of this oral takes it, usually longer the 3 weeks and usually over 30mg per dose. Although there are those that say they have indeed taken 20mg for a max of 3 weeks like the gentleman that has recently posted on this board. In many cases the user may or may not have Nolva or Clomid on hand. The user may use some sort of OTC instead of the above mentioned two. Etc etc. My question stems from this. Now SD has a half life of 6 to 8 hours, we must assume that the user is taking it across the day in split doses. So the concentration is moderate to high throughout the day and possibly in to the evening. So given that this is the case when the user stops and go onto whatever PCT he has (be they OTC or otherwise) it would be safe to assume that SD is out of the system in less then a week. Many users report that they stay on the PCT for about three weeks. OK.
This delayed thing. I would have imagined the E rebound that would be causing the gyno would happen immediately upon the cessation of the PCT. Sure it would take a few weeks for the symptoms to really manifest but still not 6 months or in some cases a year or more. How could you be straight faced and say “I took SD a year ago and yesterday I started getting gyno.” (not you Cartman) Wouldn’t your body have regulated by that time? Something more must be going on. Could it be that the PCT did not kick start the boys and they have been walking around with shutdown for a year? I don’t think that would be likely.
I have been looking but not finding answers to this quandary. What would cause that sort of delay in gyno. Not a month or two but a 6 months to a year later. I am NOT calling anyone out here, but I am finding it increasingly difficult to believe that SD is the sole reason this people are getting gyno a year after they had taken it. For that matter any oral. Something more must have happened. The dosage must have been higher or the duration must have been longer. The gyno must have presented itself months earlier, or they are simply extending the time elapsed for some reason. This simply does not make sense to me. Can someone explain?
I’ve used Drol (not Super, Ana) for 3 weeks and my right nipple felt a bit sore yesterday and is still a bit sore today. But maybe that’s because I just shaved my nipples yesterday, using a dry razor, without any soap or cream. I think it could just be shaving irritation or razor burn.
I don’t have any Nolvadex on hand, but if it progresses to a more definite gyno-type tenderness, I’ll probably just do what Anthony Roberts did and buy some nicotine patches. Nicotine is an anti-aromatase inhibitor which helps to lower estrogen levels, so the patches should do the trick.