Debate Discussion

For those who enjoyed when Bush “put Kerry in his place” for leaving out the critical Poland in the “coalition,” you might find it interesting that Poland has decided that its troops ought to be out in 2005. I guess they’ve gone from the “coalition of the willing” to the coalition of the “enough of this bullshit!”


WARSAW (AFP) - Poland will pull all of its troops out of Iraq (news - web sites) by the end of 2005, with Defense Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski for the first time setting a firm timetable for withdrawal by this key US ally.

“The final date (of our military presence in Iraq) should be that of the expiry of the UN Security Council resolution,” the minister said Monday, referring to UN resolution 1546 endorsing the timetable for political transition in Iraq, which expires in December 2005.

His comments in an interview with Polish public radio marked the first time a Warsaw official has set a precise timetable concerning the withdrawal of Polish troops from Iraq.

Analysts in Warsaw said the move would spark dismay in Washington, where US President George W. Bush (news - web sites) is under criticism over the troubled US-led occupation of Iraq as he seeks re-election next month.

“The Bush administration is of course going to be disappointed,” political analyst Krzystof Bobinski told AFP.

Until now the Polish government had said it would reduce its military presence in Iraq in 2005.

Poland sent 2,500 troops to Iraq last year in the wake of the US-led invasion and heads up a multinational division of 6,000 soldiers in south-central Iraq.

But amid strong domestic opposition to the Polish troop deployment and violent unrest in the Middle Eastern country, the government is under pressure to bring to an end Poland’s military involvement in Iraq.

Seventeen Polish nationals have died in Iraq – 13 soldiers and four civilians – including three soldiers killed in an attack last month near the central Iraqi city of Hilla.

According to the latest poll, more than 70 percent of Poles are opposed to the presence of their country’s troops in Iraq.

“I hope that the situation in Iraq will allow us to carry out our plan to withdraw our units,” said Szmajdzinski.

“We do not have such a major army as the United States or Britain to allow us to have limitless possibilities,” he added.

The unpopular centre-left government in Warsaw, whose support has plunged to single digits, has been forced to commit to a withdrawal from Iraq pushed for by populist parties for electoral reasons, commentators say.

Parliamentary elections are due next year in Poland, with the ruling Democratic Left Alliance (SLD) party which committed Polish troops to Iraq currently credited with only seven percent support.

Moreover, its minority coalition partner, the Labour Union (UP), has threatened to withhold its support from Prime Minister Marek Belka’s government in a no confidence motion on October 15 unless it gives a firm timetable for an Iraqi pullout.

“The reason is we have elections coming up next year and the SLD wants to be able to say during the election campaign this is not an issue because we are withdrawing the troops by the end of 2005,” Bobinski said.

Poland’s largest opposition party, the liberal Civic Platform party, which leads in opinion polls, has supported the Polish intervention in Iraq but is likely to back a timetable for withdrawal for the same reason, he added.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Allawi is a puppet.[/quote]

Just because he was placed in his position by the US does not make him a puppet. A puppet is control completely in everything he does, you know, like a ‘puppet on a string’. I don’t think that is the case with Allawi. Someone like Pu Yi being made the emperor of Manchuria by the Japs would be a puppet.

Also, he is on the ballot to become the real thing. If he was propped up in some way by delaying the elections etc., then the term would be apt.

Kerry does not need to use the term in order to effectively criticize the situation. That he is even spending time criticizing the interim government at this point in the process is off base. Taking such a pot shot at Allawi is just one more example of his ineptness on the world stage.

Boston Barrister: C’mon man! What’s your analysis of the debates?

(sorry if I missed your comments already)

Kerry should voice his opinion! The problem is that he has conflicting opinions on the same issue. He could probably debate himself. He is such a good politician he would most likely win…and lose. Which is what he would like as that would allow him to continue to play both sides from the middle.

RSU,

“I…thought GWB failed to say ANYTHING that wasn’t on the same level of simplicity that his misleading commercials are on. Aside from sounding like a 5th grader, GWB repeated the same stupid shit over and over from beginning to end, failing to even address the question or appropriately respond to Kerry’s answers.”

That’s why it’s hard to take you seriously, RSU.

“…you need to highlight some of Bush’s more intelligent points. I still contend you’d be hardpressed to.”

Best point of the night, completely unanswered by Kerry:

“My opponent looked at the same intelligence I looked at and declared in 2002 that Saddam Hussein was a grave threat…He also said in December of 2003 that anyone who doubts that the world is safer without Saddam Hussein does not have the judgment to be president…I agree with him. The world is better off without Saddam Hussein.”

Good stuff, and Kerry didn’t respond with your “we look at a different set of intelligence than the President” biscuit you cooked up in here, RSU. If that were true, Kerry could have easily whipped up an answer.

As is, Bush - and the rest of America interested in such things - are still seeking Mr. Kerry’s answer.

The point is neither candidate scored a doozie, and neither candidate got into a trainwreck, your revisionsim notwithstanding.

[quote]Right Side Up wrote:
Boston Barrister: C’mon man! What’s your analysis of the debates?

(sorry if I missed your comments already)[/quote]

Unfortunately, I missed them. If you look on the Off-Topic forum, you’ll see I was in Kansas City being best man for my little brother’s bachelor party, so I need to catch up and read the transcript – which wouldn’t give me any clues on the body language/facial expression stuff, of course…

Anyway, though, here are some links to a few people who were live-blogging the debate, so you get their unfiltered opinion on how things went prior to both sides unleashing the spin machines:

Maybe the fact that Kerry was able to catch up in the polls will give us an unbiased opinion on who did better during the debate?

[quote]vroom wrote:
Maybe the fact that Kerry was able to catch up in the polls will give us an unbiased opinion on who did better during the debate?[/quote]

Which polls? Seems he has picked up a little ground, but hardly that he caught up:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls.html

BTW, here’s an interesting observation re: some of the recent NYT poll:

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/008078.php