Religion only really began after the agricultural revolution when large groups of people were in the same area.
My theory is that religion was made to force in moral principles with the allure of eternal life and such, done so in an effort to control the population and prevent anarchy.
Preface: I do not mean to make light of your beliefs, morals, or principles. (I doubt my disagreeing or agreeing would change them either way.)
Why must we ultimately consider God? The longest thing you know of is your life span, and while it may be fleeting in the eyes of time, the reason most people consider God is simply due to fear, fear of the unknown, fear of damnation. Why do people typically “find” Jesus, it is because they want to go on “living” after our mortal flesh has given up the ghost, it is extrinsically motivated for most (promise of heaven rather than hell).
Of large interest to me is how things have evolved with churches and people’s relationships with their gods, when it started there were men who could actually hear gods speak to them (women could not of course). Then there was one man, or a few kings who sure as shootin’ knew they were holy and would impart the word of the lord unto the heathens. Then there was one guy (the Pope) who knew all the answers, then those answers changed and evolved into a much softer interpretation of the bible. I would genuinely like to hear your thoughts on that process (from literal interpretation as God meant it to where the Pope is now openly trying to recruit folks to Catholicism read: homosexuals, folks that have strayed, same with basic Christianity, the rules of been relaxed for what reason? The writings have not changed as far as I understand.)
2 Likes
I agree that what you believe influences how you experience/interpret the world around you. It’s not innate and stuck with you and can definitely be changed by a convincing argument. Not sure that you need to dress up a as Quirinus Quirrell to change your beliefs.
Not to dissuade anyone from picking Judaism, but Judaism considers it unnecessary for a person not born Jewish to follow Judaism. The preferred path (from a Jewish perspective) would be for a non-Jew to follow the laws of Noah, which are here:
Arguably the finest person in the Torah is Jobe, who was not Jewish, but rather a Noahadite.
I would further note that most Jewish teachers agree that Christianity is a perfectly acceptable choice for a non-Jew (as is Zoroastrianism).
I do not believe Sikhs or Druze (another not on your list) accept converts. I am not sure.
Hinduism, while to what I know about it is limited, is probably deemed pagan due to its pantheon of gods.
2 Likes
Oh dear, there goes my options. Guess I’m stuck with Christianity. Thanks for the info Jewy.
Personally, because my parents raised me right.
Socially, I believe morality gives a society as a whole an advantage. The more violent, selfish, and dishonest people are, the more society breaks down. The larger the society, the more morality is required to hold it together. Even criminal organizations require increasing discipline to hold together as they expand. One of the reasons political discourse is breaking down in our society is the lack of trust in the honesty of each other’s sources of information. Ayn Rand would say immoral people are parasites upon the productivity of good people while CS Lewis would say that evil is only potent so far as it acquires the virtues of the good.
[quote=“hugh_gilly, post:85, topic:229242”]
Thanks for the info Jewy.[/quote]
Seriously?
Hugh, you’ve been walking a line in this thread coming across as half-attention starved troll, half-smartass “look how smart I am” kid. But this is pushing it, even for a PWI thread.
I’ll allow you to ponder over your thoughts, take a step back, and watch yourself going forward.
1 Like
Just because we seek an answer to meaning in the face of eternity doesn’t mean the answer is God.
Just because a person deduces there is a God doesn’t mean it is the Christian God.
1 Like
I think he was just making a pun. Chewbacca → Chewie. Jewbacca → Jewy.
1 Like
Possible, sure. Off the top of my head, I don’t remember anyone referring to JB that way, like, ever. Probably because it also has (what I see as) a fairly overt derogatory spin as well.
(May the 4th) be with you.
5/4/2017 
1 Like
I had the same reaction at first too, and don’t disagree with your overall assessment.
That brings up another unmentioned religious option, going Jedi. In case you’re wondering, YES, they have merchandise!
Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet the Force.
I think they may have borrowed that concept:
I can’t say that I align with any formal religion, but do have some faith and belief in a God of some sort. I had to take “Higher power/God of my understanding” and turn it into “Higher power/God of my Misunderstanding”.
People read the bible and look for holes in the plot and things that they believe are inexplicable or irrational so that they can hang their hat on the “Thats bullshit!” hook.
I’m ok with that. I can’t understand a lot of things in the natural universe, let alone a supernatural creator. Some people just hate that, not being able to understand something. I became ok with it after reading this:
1 Like
Since I am not a Catholic and do not share the belief that the Pope is somehow closer to God in rank than other Christian believers, I will answer that every follower is supposed to be interested in extending the same invitation that I spoke of earlier - God wishes to have a personal relationship with every person. In the same vein, all New Testament practitioners (Christians) are told to love sinners while hating their sin. Notice the second part of the quote below about neighbor.
The Bible is quite explicit when Jesus was asked which commandment was most important:
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.”
For all the naysayers about Christianity (and obviously Judaism), these are the basic 2. Not commandments for Inquisitions, hating sinners, controlling populations.
I can’t speak for Jews as to how much of the specific laws they were given 3500 years ago is still applied. I believe they were stipulated for a particular group of people. And further believe the Jews do not think these regulations are mandatory to any non Jewish person. @Jewbacca can answer
.
Did you read my long post above? A father strives to have a wonderful relationship with his own son. God wants to have a wonderful relationship with his created sons.
Oh my god sorry Chris. My intention was realising it being may the 4th to edit it and make a star wars pun. Not derogatory in the slightest. Sorry.
Why phrase this in a negative sense? Motivated by the negative emotion of fear. Why not faith motivated by hope, or optimism? Or motivated by seeking something that transcends the mundane human experience? That it is within humans to seek something profound, or as @treco so beautifully wrote about the human desire to to seek answers to the big questions, or to seek something greater than ourselves. This is a position of humility, which can be also be a character strength.
This focus on fear is a bit like a religious person saying “there are no atheists in foxholes,” as in fear gets us all in the end. There is a form of religious pride in that idea, right? Why assume that belief or lack of belief it necessarily tied to fear as a primary motivator? This idea makes the person who lacks belief more courageous? More able to bravely look into the void? There is a form of pride in this too, is there not? At least maybe be open to the idea that you’re describing “most” people of faith as weaker than yourself.
1 Like
So what informed their morals?
No disrespect in any way, but if there is no absolute authority for morals, then any level of ‘moral’ activity has to be accepted.
Maybe mine include treating you dishonestly in business or trying to get your wife to have an affair with me, because you are not in my family tribe, and it is morally okay for me.Perhaps those repel you, but getting free cable is acceptable because Comcast already has plenty of money,
I’ve always believed that a persons relationship with God is based on, and analogous to their relationship with their father.
Good relationship with father= Good relationship with God.
Bad relationship with father= Bad relationship with God.
Father unknown or absent= Agnostic to Atheist.
Not an ironclad rule, just an observation.
I really appreciate the detailed response, as stated before I have/had no intention of making light of your beliefs, and I appreciate you sharing your insight into it!