[quote]pushharder wrote:
BetaBerry wrote:
…Of course, when you ask them things like “so how come there are fossils and rocks that are millions of years old?” they’ll probably dodge it…
Never seen a creationist dodge that one yet.
What does it take to create a fossil, Victoria? Tell me and I’ll show you a non-dodge that’ll knock your satin teddy right off.
[/quote]
It takes a creator. Is that what you’re trying to get at?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
BetaBerry wrote:
pushharder wrote:
BetaBerry wrote:
…Of course, when you ask them things like “so how come there are fossils and rocks that are millions of years old?” they’ll probably dodge it…
Never seen a creationist dodge that one yet.
What does it take to create a fossil, Victoria? Tell me and I’ll show you a non-dodge that’ll knock your satin teddy right off.
Very basically, a dead animal, wait a couple million years, if the batch goes right, you’ve got yourself a fossil.
Nope. Give it another shot. Need a hint?
[/quote]
Hmm. An army of mind-controlled lithotrophic bacteria and a knowledge of anatomy?
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
You never go full retard.
I noticed.[/quote]
Hey Aragorn, that was a sly reference, right?
…oh no! What’s this?
New breed of ‘super rat’ with poison-resistant DNA
Professor Robert Smith, of the University of Huddersfield, said: 'There are mutations and changes in their DNA that alter the ability of rats to deal with these poisons.
[quote]BetaBerry wrote:
pushharder wrote:
BetaBerry wrote:
…Of course, when you ask them things like “so how come there are fossils and rocks that are millions of years old?” they’ll probably dodge it…
Never seen a creationist dodge that one yet.
What does it take to create a fossil, Victoria? Tell me and I’ll show you a non-dodge that’ll knock your satin teddy right off.
Very basically, a dead animal, wait a couple million years, if the batch goes right, you’ve got yourself a fossil.
[/quote]
Nope. Satan buries it to test your faith.
Wait, this is pushharders little fantasy world, so whatever he says.
[quote]Mattlebee wrote:
pushharder wrote:
BetaBerry wrote:
pushharder wrote:
BetaBerry wrote:
…Of course, when you ask them things like “so how come there are fossils and rocks that are millions of years old?” they’ll probably dodge it…
Never seen a creationist dodge that one yet.
What does it take to create a fossil, Victoria? Tell me and I’ll show you a non-dodge that’ll knock your satin teddy right off.
Very basically, a dead animal, wait a couple million years, if the batch goes right, you’ve got yourself a fossil.
Nope. Give it another shot. Need a hint?
Hmm. An army of mind-controlled lithotrophic bacteria and a knowledge of anatomy?[/quote]
Aliens kidnapped the dinosaurs to ride on them!
Alternatively:
Dinosaur rapture and only the naughty crocodiles had to stay.
There are quite a few ways in which preservation can occur.
Moulds can be made where the organism decays, leaving an imprint. Then you have compression fossils such as coal. Bones and shells can be replaced over time with minerals. Minerals can also fill the empty spaces in an organism over time, such as cells, and then also you have the weirdest one to me where one organism grows over another and leaves the imprint in its own skeleton. Freaky. I can’t remember what this is called though.
So yeah, depends on the tissue and the conditions. It can happen relatively quickly, or over the expanse of time.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
BTW:
"Fossil radioactivity shortens geologic “ages” to a few years.
Radio Halo
Radiohalos are rings of color formed around microscopic bits of radioactive minerals in rock crystals. They are fossil evidence of radioactive decay. Squashed Polonium-210 radiohalos indicate that Jurassic, Triassic, and Eocene formations in the Colorado plateau were deposited within months of one another, not hundreds of millions of years apart as required by the conventional time scale. Orphan Polonium-218 radiohalos, having no evidence of their mother elements, imply accelerated nuclear decay and very rapid formation of associated minerals."
Still waiting for someone with a “scientific mind” to tell me in simple terms how a fossil is formed… [/quote]
Good stuff Push.
Love the circular reasoning of:
how old are the rocks? - blah blah millions of years
how do you know? because of the fossils that are found in them
oh, well how do you know how old the fossils are? Because of the types of rock they are found in . . .
BTW - did you hear? - they found another fossil of a dead primate . . . millions of years old . . . looks just like a dead primate . . . not sure what that is supposed to prove - maybe he had gills . . .
[quote]pushharder wrote:
BTW:
"Fossil radioactivity shortens geologic “ages” to a few years.
Radio Halo
Radiohalos are rings of color formed around microscopic bits of radioactive minerals in rock crystals. They are fossil evidence of radioactive decay. Squashed Polonium-210 radiohalos indicate that Jurassic, Triassic, and Eocene formations in the Colorado plateau were deposited within months of one another, not hundreds of millions of years apart as required by the conventional time scale. Orphan Polonium-218 radiohalos, having no evidence of their mother elements, imply accelerated nuclear decay and very rapid formation of associated minerals."
[/quote]
Push this is from that crap article you posted earlier. If you remember correctly the author thought that evolution had something to say about comets, which was most amusing, in addition to many other flaws which I can through in further detail if you wish. Anyway, knowing that, I struggle to understand why you think it’s a credible source.
Anyway;
"
Polonium forms from the alpha decay of radon, which is one of the decay products of uranium. Since radon is a gas, it can migrate through small cracks in the minerals. The fact that polonium haloes are found only associated with uranium (the parent mineral for producing radon) supports this conclusion, as does the fact that such haloes are commonly found along cracks (Brawley 1992; Wakefield 1998).
The biotite in which Gentry (1986) obtained some of his samples (Fission Mine and Silver Crater locations) was not from granite, but from a calcite dike. The biotite formed metamorphically as minerals in the walls of the dike migrated into the calcite. Biotite from the Faraday Mine came from a granite pegmatite that intruded a paragneiss that formed from highly metamorphosed sediments. Thus, all of the locations Gentry examined show evidence of an extensive history predating the formation of the micas; they show an appearance of age older than the three minutes his polonium halo theory allows. It is possible God created this appearance of age, but that reduces Gentry’s argument to the omphalos argument, for which evidence is irrelevant (Wakefield 1998).
Stromatolites are found in rocks intruded by (and therefore older than) the dikes from which Gentry’s samples came, showing that living things existed before the rocks that Gentry claimed were primordial (Wakefield 1998)."
Which is from here; CF201: Polonium Haloes
Pushharder, you need to try harder.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Still waiting for someone with a “scientific mind” to tell me in simple terms how a fossil is formed… [/quote]
I would very much like to see you knock the satin teddy off BetaBerry (especially if she’s holding a camera at the time), so does your non-dodge apply to other “old Earth” evidence (Antarctic ice cores for instance) or is it limited to fossils?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Jab1 wrote:
There are quite a few ways in which preservation can occur.
Moulds can be made where the organism decays, leaving an imprint. Then you have compression fossils such as coal. Bones and shells can be replaced over time with minerals. Minerals can also fill the empty spaces in an organism over time, such as cells, and then also you have the weirdest one to me where one organism grows over another and leaves the imprint in its own skeleton. Freaky. I can’t remember what this is called though.
So yeah, depends on the tissue and the conditions. It can happen relatively quickly, or over the expanse of time.
I want more, Jab. You aren’t explaining the crux of the matter. You’re missing some key points in the explanation.
Since so many are struggling here I’m going to throw out a hint: for starters a dead body cannot decay before the fossil forms. I know that sounds elementary but SOME THINGS must happen (or not happen) in order for decay not to occur.
THINK, CLASS. THINK.
[/quote]
Oh dear. Please don’t tell me you’re going down the lines of The Flud? I would sincerely hope for better, even from you.
You’re right, some things must happen, and this is exactly why fossils are quite rare compared to the numbers of organisms that have ever lived. Some things help with becoming preserved, such as being covered in sediment pretty quickly, or falling into a tar pit.
By the way I found out the name of the last one, bioimmuration. I’d love to see that explained by the flood or creationism.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Nothing wrong with debate on the issue. That’s what science is all about. Do you think Wakefield is infallible?
[/quote]
Of course not. But this isn’t a debate; that article you posted was unmitigated hogwash. When the author presents something like that as fact, when it quite clearly is not, does that not concern you at all?
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
pushharder wrote:
BTW:
"Fossil radioactivity shortens geologic “ages” to a few years.
Radio Halo
Radiohalos are rings of color formed around microscopic bits of radioactive minerals in rock crystals. They are fossil evidence of radioactive decay. Squashed Polonium-210 radiohalos indicate that Jurassic, Triassic, and Eocene formations in the Colorado plateau were deposited within months of one another, not hundreds of millions of years apart as required by the conventional time scale. Orphan Polonium-218 radiohalos, having no evidence of their mother elements, imply accelerated nuclear decay and very rapid formation of associated minerals."
Still waiting for someone with a “scientific mind” to tell me in simple terms how a fossil is formed…
Good stuff Push.
Love the circular reasoning of:
how old are the rocks? - blah blah millions of years
how do you know? because of the fossils that are found in them
oh, well how do you know how old the fossils are? Because of the types of rock they are found in . . .
BTW - did you hear? - they found another fossil of a dead primate . . . millions of years old . . . looks just like a dead primate . . . not sure what that is supposed to prove - maybe he had gills . . .[/quote]
That’s not actually how it works at all. This is why we sometimes find very old rocks and fossils amongst much newer specimens and vice-versa. Surely you’ve heard of half lives?
Incidently the circumstances of her preservation are interesting too, as the area in which she was found has yielded many other superb specimens. It was a volcanic region, the poisonous fumes causing creatures to fall in to the water and be preserved by the sediment at the bottom.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Why do you struggle against my nudging? The facts are, 100% of the time, the body (plant or animal), cannot decay before fossilization occurs. Right? C’mon, man, cough it up.
Or do you want to assert that a dead plant or animal can rot away into nothingness and then somehow, magically, a fossil appears out of nowhere? No, no, no, you don’t want to assert that. So tell me what ABSOLUTELY must happen for fossilization to occur. If you tell me that a dead, carbon based life form can just lay on the ground or in the water for millions of years and bacteria will not consume it while the gods of evolution work their magic…then…I am going to laugh at you far louder than you presume to laugh at the Flood.[/quote]
I’m not sure where you’re getting this strawman from. Have I not already said that sediment covering an organism will preserve it, and told you about the mechanisms by which is does this? What about falling in to a tar bit, which causes quite rapid preservation? Or the example I gave above about old Darwinius? You know actually bits can decay before fossilisation occurs, which is why there are far more fossils of bones (which take freaking ages to decay) than soft tissues. Like I already said, it depends on the tissues and the circumstances. When have I ever even vaguely hinted that a “dead, carbon based life form can just lay on the ground or in the water for millions of years and bacteria will not consume it”?
Please, stop this duplicity, what both of us have written is on this board for anyone to see and you’re making a fool of yourself by conjuring up things I am supposed to have said.
You apparently think that there is one thing that must happen for fossilisation, and I’m pretty sure you think it was a global flood, which very rapidly covered animals with layers of sediment and pressure (please correct me if I’m wrong on this though). If that was so, where does coal from?