Contract Engineer

Off Topic
21

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
I would ask very specific questions about why they’re looking to fill the position you’re interviewing for. Some companies do contract-to-hire as a standard hiring procedure to see what you can actually do before they commit to you. I got my second job this way, and I was basically in your shoes (worked for small company, got minimal raises on a shit salary, got 25% bump when I made the move).

Honestly though, engineering is pretty booming right now relative to other fields. I’d take the salary bump and if they don’t renew your contract (or try to hire you direct) a month or so before it’s up, start looking. There aren’t a whole lot of young engineers with experience sitting around looking for work unless they’ve already burned some bridges and earned a bad rep.[/quote]

Yes, that is my plan. And furthermore since I will be meeting with 3 managers from the large construction company, I will be asking them (not the engineering firm guy) what they are looking for to make sure its not a terminal project timeline and that they are in fact looking to bring someone as a full employee.

Talking to my dad last night he said it wouldn’t be detrimental to my career to stay at my small company for another few years. I disagree with this because right now I use AutoCAD, but I don’t have my hands on the 3D design software. The only experience I have with 3D/solidworks was when I was in school (and it was quite extensive) so every minute that passes I am only getting further and further away from my relevant 3D design software experience. So for this reason, I need to get back into the 3D stuff cause that is what I want to do, I want to build, create, fix, design, and revise current designs.

I want to be an engineer, not a project manager/engineer (my current position).[/quote]

One thing to consider is that contract workers are often considered to be workers that can’t land the regular jobs. I am not saying this is true, and many firms are going this route to reduce headaches. Just something to consider.

FWIW, I know you are probably sick of school, but also consider getting some Catia training. This is what most of the bigger companies are using and it is just different enough from Solidworks to keep you from getting those jobs.

All of our bigger clients (Ford, Tenneco, Eaton) use Catia V5

I am a designer using Solidworks and do what you describe as your end goal. You are correct that most engineers are glorified project managers.
[/quote]

well, I would be working for an actual engineering firm, not sure that this changes your point.

I see your point about not being able to land normal work, but I am only 25. From what Iâ??ve heard younger engineers tend to take the contract positions. Can you confirm this at all?

Although I was sick of school by the end, to keep an edge I know that I will need to add to my education. This is another reason that I want to work for a large company, so they can pay for some additional education.

22

The only way I will take it is if the managers at the construction company are intending to bring me on as a full employee.

I will not take it if i know its a terminal contract position.

23

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
I have an interview (good) coming up with a contract (bad) engineering firm. I would be working on projects for a large construction equipment manufacturer (good). I’ve been told it’s a 6mo contract position (bad) with the opportunity to be hired on as a full-time employee (good, but of course they always say this).

I currently work at a small company (bad) where I make a salary that is equivalent to a post-grad salary (bad). Labor day this year will be my 2 years so I am quickly outgrowing my salary. I did receive our companies standard raise of $xxxx which amounted to 2.9%�?�¢?�?�¦barely above inflation (bad).

The new position would pay about 20% more than I make now (great) but it is HOURLY pay (good I suppose) and I would also get paid for my time, so I would be paid for 50hrs/week if I worked for that amount of time.

Does anyone here have experience working as a contract engineer? I can’t feel good with a mortgage knowing that I may be in a WORSE position in 6mo looking for a job, being unemployed.

I am not going to entertain the “you have to enjoy what you do” BSÃ??Ã?¢?Ã??Ã?¦work is work, make the most money you can in order to provide the best for you and your family.

these are the criteria I am most concerned about;
income
stable position with a future
opportunity to move up, and make more money
experience [/quote]
I know you have discussed this in the past, but just a question.

Are you willing to move? [/quote]

yes

but for the time being I can make the commute since I am centrally located in the twin cities metro.[/quote]
I only ask because some parts of the country are not as booming as others.

I have done physicals on Engineers daily for the past few weeks but I can only attest to this part of the country.

24

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

well, I would be working for an actual engineering firm, not sure that this changes your point.

I see your point about not being able to land normal work, but I am only 25. From what Iâ??ve heard younger engineers tend to take the contract positions. Can you confirm this at all?

Although I was sick of school by the end, to keep an edge I know that I will need to add to my education. This is another reason that I want to work for a large company, so they can pay for some additional education.

[/quote]

Yes, it is mostly younger engineers taking the contract positions. Youth works in your favor in this case. There is a definite perception that if you are older you are working contract because that is all you can get.

25

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
The only way I will take it is if the managers at the construction company are intending to bring me on as a full employee.

I will not take it if i know its a terminal contract position.[/quote]

I think it’s a bad idea, just be patient for a better opportunity.

I’ve been royally fucked by the bring you on as full time trick. Its a trap man.

26

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
The only way I will take it is if the managers at the construction company are intending to bring me on as a full employee.

I will not take it if i know its a terminal contract position.[/quote]

I think it’s a bad idea, just be patient for a better opportunity.

I’ve been royally fucked by the bring you on as full time trick. Its a trap man.
[/quote]

I concur.

Never settle for promises if you can get it in writing.

It always sucks when you have to go the old " I like working here, but you told me X would happen y, so whats the deal?" route.

27

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
The only way I will take it is if the managers at the construction company are intending to bring me on as a full employee.

I will not take it if i know its a terminal contract position.[/quote]

I think it’s a bad idea, just be patient for a better opportunity.

I’ve been royally fucked by the bring you on as full time trick. Its a trap man.
[/quote]

I concur.

Never settle for promises if you can get it in writing.

It always sucks when you have to go the old " I like working here, but you told me X would happen y, so whats the deal?" route.
[/quote]

Shit, you guys are probably rightâ?¦In the past I wouldâ??ve never even applied for anything that isnâ??t direct hire/non-contract.

I think Iâ??ve convinced myself that I am more desperate than I really am to find a new jobâ?¦.Iâ??m gonna lay it out right now with numbers

I make 52,500 for base salary and I can expect around 2,500 for my chrismas bonus. So figure 55,000 for me and labor day will be my 2 yr mark in the field.

How hard should I press to get out and get a new job?

One thing Iâ??ve learned is that I just need to stop â??pushingâ?? so hard on things in my life.

Can I get some more advice?

28

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
The only way I will take it is if the managers at the construction company are intending to bring me on as a full employee.

I will not take it if i know its a terminal contract position.[/quote]

I think it’s a bad idea, just be patient for a better opportunity.

I’ve been royally fucked by the bring you on as full time trick. Its a trap man.
[/quote]

I concur.

Never settle for promises if you can get it in writing.

It always sucks when you have to go the old " I like working here, but you told me X would happen y, so whats the deal?" route.
[/quote]

Shit, you guys are probably rightâ?¦In the past I wouldâ??ve never even applied for anything that isnâ??t direct hire/non-contract.

I think Iâ??ve convinced myself that I am more desperate than I really am to find a new jobâ?¦.Iâ??m gonna lay it out right now with numbers

I make 52,500 for base salary and I can expect around 2,500 for my chrismas bonus. So figure 55,000 for me and labor day will be my 2 yr mark in the field.

How hard should I press to get out and get a new job?

One thing Iâ??ve learned is that I just need to stop â??pushingâ?? so hard on things in my life.

Can I get some more advice?
[/quote]

Not bad money for two years experience and a degree. Depending of course on where you live.

Nothing wrong with being gung ho for your job, but don’t be that guy that is a pain in the ass on the shop floor. Are you dealing directly with the guys in manufacturing? Treat these guys with respect, they are a lot smarter than you may realize and they may someday save your ass when you make a mistake. A machinist taking the time to ask “is this really what you meant to do?” VS “fuck it! That guys a dick, I know it’s wrong but I’ll make it to the print?” could mean your job.

Are you still learning a lot where you are? Any room for expanding your knowledge there, like spending time in manufacturing?

I can tell you that my manufacturing experience from before I became a designer is irreplaceable. Anybody can learn to use CAD, but unless you know the limitations and efficiencies of manufacturing it is pretty much useless.

29

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
The only way I will take it is if the managers at the construction company are intending to bring me on as a full employee.

I will not take it if i know its a terminal contract position.[/quote]

I think it’s a bad idea, just be patient for a better opportunity.

I’ve been royally fucked by the bring you on as full time trick. Its a trap man.
[/quote]

I concur.

Never settle for promises if you can get it in writing.

It always sucks when you have to go the old " I like working here, but you told me X would happen y, so whats the deal?" route.
[/quote]

Shit, you guys are probably right�¢?�¦In the past I would�¢??ve never even applied for anything that isn�¢??t direct hire/non-contract.

I think I�¢??ve convinced myself that I am more desperate than I really am to find a new job�¢?�¦.I�¢??m gonna lay it out right now with numbers

I make 52,500 for base salary and I can expect around 2,500 for my chrismas bonus. So figure 55,000 for me and labor day will be my 2 yr mark in the field.

How hard should I press to get out and get a new job?

One thing I�¢??ve learned is that I just need to stop �¢??pushing�¢?? so hard on things in my life.

Can I get some more advice?
[/quote]

Not bad money for two years experience and a degree. Depending of course on where you live.

Nothing wrong with being gung ho for your job, but don’t be that guy that is a pain in the ass on the shop floor. Are you dealing directly with the guys in manufacturing? Treat these guys with respect, they are a lot smarter than you may realize and they may someday save your ass when you make a mistake. A machinist taking the time to ask “is this really what you meant to do?” VS “fuck it! That guys a dick, I know it’s wrong but I’ll make it to the print?” could mean your job.

Are you still learning a lot where you are? Any room for expanding your knowledge there, like spending time in manufacturing?

I can tell you that my manufacturing experience from before I became a designer is irreplaceable. Anybody can learn to use CAD, but unless you know the limitations and efficiencies of manufacturing it is pretty much useless.
[/quote]

the learning is over in my position, or at least it has drastically slowed down. The opportunity for growth is nearly non-existent, these are my “quality” reasons for wanting to leave. My other reasons are that I want more money (I believe* it’s out there) and I am getting sick of my boss/coworkers.

Since I am not in our design group, I seldom talk to the guys in the shop. I have a pipefitter friend. Also, for exactly the reasons you mentioned I have always* been respectful and nice to the guys in our shop…I also make sure to speak loud enough for them to hear me when I’m out there talking to them lol.

the opportunitu for expanding my knowledge or acquiring additional education…uhhh…DNE!! at my job and that is another reason I want to go to a big company and have them pay for more education.

shit, I even consider paying for a six sigma class for myself just so I can put that on my resume. six sigma we are not lol, we do it one-at-a-time!

30

well I had the interview today.

Everyone was really honest and I was told that it was essentially a terminal project (not a contract position though, that was made clear) that would end at the end of 2014 with the chance that upper management would continue the project into the future depending on economics etc.

I was told straight up “I would not take this position if I were you, it’s more for someone who is between jobs or doesn’t have a job currently”

But, the interview went incredibly well and this company (large construction company) is the epitome of what I want to be doing. When I met with the managers, they said they have other positions available (“open-ended”) and are going to see what they can do to possibly get a position for me etc. They seemed to like me, it would be a dream to work there.

So my conclusion is that a contract position is still to be avoided, but it was still worth it to suit up, and show up. Sometimes all you need is to get your foot in the door.

31

Are you in industrial or mechanical engineering? Where do you live?

The reason I ask is that salary seems low for engineering to me - I started out making $3-4k/year more than that 8 years ago in the Midwest, but I am an electrical engineer and work in the utility industry.

I’ll also add that there’s always ups and downs, but if there is a job you really want, I’d say to go after it. After almost 8 years at the same company I decided to go work for a different company doing some that interested me more than what I was doing at the time. The job offered more money (and less responsibility, actually), better benefits, and was something I was more interested in. It was a great move for me and I’m much happier now even with somewhat longer working hours.

The final thing I’d recommend is taking the FE/EIT if you haven’t already, and plan on taking the PE test as soon as you can. In my opinion at least, having a PE will always give you a leg up, even if its not required for the job you are applying for.

32

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
well I had the interview today.

Everyone was really honest and I was told that it was essentially a terminal project (not a contract position though, that was made clear) that would end at the end of 2014 with the chance that upper management would continue the project into the future depending on economics etc.

I was told straight up “I would not take this position if I were you, it’s more for someone who is between jobs or doesn’t have a job currently”

But, the interview went incredibly well and this company (large construction company) is the epitome of what I want to be doing. When I met with the managers, they said they have other positions available (“open-ended”) and are going to see what they can do to possibly get a position for me etc. They seemed to like me, it would be a dream to work there.

So my conclusion is that a contract position is still to be avoided, but it was still worth it to suit up, and show up. Sometimes all you need is to get your foot in the door.[/quote]

What do they build, if you don’t mind me asking? I’m endlessly curious about fabrication and construction projects.

Also good job on the interview. Sounds like you made a good connection.

33

We hire contract workers here, off and on, as needed. Some turn into full-time employees, some are held in limbo although they are considered as an asset at what they do. We lost 2 great temps earlier this year, one found a full time job and the other took another contract position.

All of our contract engineers are gone for about 5 months now, they went out the door with a contract that we lost. Any benefits that they may have are supplied by their placement service, we may provide Workmans Compensation, but nothing else.

If you do accept a position, you’ll have to work harder than anyone else that is a permanent employee. Try to find out how that particular company is at retaining engineers after the contract is up.

Rob

34

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
So my conclusion is that a contract position is still to be avoided, but it was still worth it to suit up, and show up. Sometimes all you need is to get your foot in the door.[/quote]

This. It’s almost always worth going for an interview when you get the chance. Never know when that connection might come in handy (i.e. if they have a FT position available in a year or two, and you apply, they might well remember you as the sharp guy who showed up to interview for the contract position last year).

35

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
So my conclusion is that a contract position is still to be avoided, but it was still worth it to suit up, and show up. Sometimes all you need is to get your foot in the door.[/quote]

This. It’s almost always worth going for an interview when you get the chance. Never know when that connection might come in handy (i.e. if they have a FT position available in a year or two, and you apply, they might well remember you as the sharp guy who showed up to interview for the contract position last year).[/quote]

I agree interviews are face time and networking even if you don’t accept the position.

36

Carbiduis,

You asked for advice so here goes.

There is nothing wrong with being motivated. However, you come across as very naive as to how the professional world works. Keep pushing towards your goals, just do it smarter. A more ruthless mid level manager at the contract engineer company would have played you for your talent then dropped you on your ass once the job is done.

Networking is huge when landing high level jobs, qualifications just get you to the show.

Professional development and acquisition of new skills is your responsibility, not your employers. Train yourself to be a sharper professional on your own time via online courses, buying software packages, and attending seminars. This will cost you money, think of it as investing in yourself.

Get every professional certification possible. Attend meetings, network with these individuals.

37

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
Carbiduis,

You asked for advice so here goes.

There is nothing wrong with being motivated. However, you come across as very naive as to how the professional world works. Keep pushing towards your goals, just do it smarter. A more ruthless mid level manager at the contract engineer company would have played you for your talent then dropped you on your ass once the job is done.

Networking is huge when landing high level jobs, qualifications just get you to the show.

Professional development and acquisition of new skills is your responsibility, not your employers. Train yourself to be a sharper professional on your own time via online courses, buying software packages, and attending seminars. This will cost you money, think of it as investing in yourself.

Get every professional certification possible. Attend meetings, network with these individuals.

[/quote]

OK, first off, lol.

The first person I take advice from is my dad (works with engineers and physicists but he is not an engineer), although he is very pessimistic at times. He did tell me to stay away from the contract thing…

Which I donâ??t know if you saw my previous posts, but I would have NEVER applied to a contract position previously. Maybe you should read all posts before you draw conclusions about me being naïve.

The hard part is that I am so eager to get out of the company I am at, this leaves me a little susceptible, but I wonâ??t let myself fall in a trap.

I have a BSME from an ABET accredited University. I have an extremely in demand degree. Iâ??m not going to completely disregard your advice to network and improve myself (see where I said previously that I am considering putting myself through a six sigma course), but I donâ??t think it is quite as important for someone with an engineering degree.

TBH, I listen very closely to what the engineers here have to say. Anyone without an engineering degree is not someone I am going to pay that close attention to.

38

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
Carbiduis,

You asked for advice so here goes.

There is nothing wrong with being motivated. However, you come across as very naive as to how the professional world works. Keep pushing towards your goals, just do it smarter. A more ruthless mid level manager at the contract engineer company would have played you for your talent then dropped you on your ass once the job is done.

Networking is huge when landing high level jobs, qualifications just get you to the show.

Professional development and acquisition of new skills is your responsibility, not your employers. Train yourself to be a sharper professional on your own time via online courses, buying software packages, and attending seminars. This will cost you money, think of it as investing in yourself.

Get every professional certification possible. Attend meetings, network with these individuals.

[/quote]

TBH, I listen very closely to what the engineers here have to say. Anyone without an engineering degree is not someone I am going to pay that close attention to.

[/quote]
Just a question but why would you say this?

I know very, very successful people in your field without an engineering degree. Such as my father, who is a project manager and makes 300k a year for any job he goes to.

39

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Anyone without an engineering degree is not someone I am going to pay that close attention to.
[/quote]

Why would you limit yourself like this?

40

because I want to hear from people who are in the same field as me. Someone who may have experienced the same things that i may encounter with the same background as me.

business/marketing/advertising majors won’t (usually) have the same perspective.

not to completely ignore them, but read through this thread. Theres advice that is contradictory depending on who its coming from. who am I going to listen to? probably and engineer.