Continuation on the Reproductive Rights Topic

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Thinking its morally wrong requires no proof. There is no proof of any moral judgments. Forcing people to pay for things they find morally wrong is also morally wrong by the way.[/quote]

But what requires proof is saying that it has neural repercussions on children.[/quote]

True, but the general claim that it’s morally wrong to expose 10 year olds to explicit sexual material doesn’t.[/quote]

If he wants to argue teaching sex education at 10 years old is too early, that’s reasonable to me and can be looked at. I can see that, maybe it is too young.

But he’s equating pornography to sexual health material and thus trying to assert sexual health material has neural repercussions.

[/quote]

Several of the studies were on sexually explicit material and the general normalization of sex to young people.

Additionally, I know for a fact that there is little difference between a naked woman in a playboy and a naked woman in a text book in the mind of a young boy.[/quote]

I reject the idea that sexual health material should be considered on par with pornography.

If sex education was truly damaging kids, sloth would be able to present a study that clearly mentioned sex health material. He can’t. Guess why?[/quote]

Really? I consider a 10 year old having knowledge of sex, masturbation, homosexuality est. to be damage.

Here’s a supported position. When adults acted more like intelligent, self restraining actors, who’d beat the snot out of any person approaching their children with such material, instead of addiction-justifying, weak willed, public exhibitionists of deviancy, their children didn’t need to look at pictures of other children bending over to fondle themselves in a handheld mirror. Now you get them primded, throw them some contraception, and head to the bar for your own hook-ups. Progress? Get bent.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Thinking its morally wrong requires no proof. There is no proof of any moral judgments. Forcing people to pay for things they find morally wrong is also morally wrong by the way.[/quote]

But what requires proof is saying that it has neural repercussions on children.[/quote]

True, but the general claim that it’s morally wrong to expose 10 year olds to explicit sexual material doesn’t.[/quote]

If he wants to argue teaching sex education at 10 years old is too early, that’s reasonable to me and can be looked at. I can see that, maybe it is too young.

But he’s equating pornography to sexual health material and thus trying to assert sexual health material has neural repercussions.

[/quote]

Several of the studies were on sexually explicit material and the general normalization of sex to young people.

Additionally, I know for a fact that there is little difference between a naked woman in a playboy and a naked woman in a text book in the mind of a young boy.[/quote]

I reject the idea that sexual health material should be considered on par with pornography.

If sex education was truly damaging kids, sloth would be able to present a study that clearly mentioned sex health material. He can’t. Guess why?[/quote]

Really? I consider a 10 year old having knowledge of sex, masturbation, homosexuality est. to be damage. [/quote]

Good for you.

Now provide evidence for your opinion. Otherwise it’s nothing but another unsupported opinion.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

And that makes it pornography to you?
[/quote]

Semantics. It makes it the same thing to the children.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Thinking its morally wrong requires no proof. There is no proof of any moral judgments. Forcing people to pay for things they find morally wrong is also morally wrong by the way.[/quote]

But what requires proof is saying that it has neural repercussions on children.[/quote]

True, but the general claim that it’s morally wrong to expose 10 year olds to explicit sexual material doesn’t.[/quote]

If he wants to argue teaching sex education at 10 years old is too early, that’s reasonable to me and can be looked at. I can see that, maybe it is too young.

But he’s equating pornography to sexual health material and thus trying to assert sexual health material has neural repercussions.

[/quote]

Several of the studies were on sexually explicit material and the general normalization of sex to young people.

Additionally, I know for a fact that there is little difference between a naked woman in a playboy and a naked woman in a text book in the mind of a young boy.[/quote]

I reject the idea that sexual health material should be considered on par with pornography.

If sex education was truly damaging kids, sloth would be able to present a study that clearly mentioned sex health material. He can’t. Guess why?[/quote]

Really? I consider a 10 year old having knowledge of sex, masturbation, homosexuality est. to be damage. [/quote]

Good for you.

Now provide evidence for your opinion. Otherwise it’s nothing but another unsupported opinion.
[/quote]

You need evidence of sexual images and text being…well, sexual?

I thought this was supposed to be a non religious discussion.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Thinking its morally wrong requires no proof. There is no proof of any moral judgments. Forcing people to pay for things they find morally wrong is also morally wrong by the way.[/quote]

But what requires proof is saying that it has neural repercussions on children.[/quote]

True, but the general claim that it’s morally wrong to expose 10 year olds to explicit sexual material doesn’t.[/quote]

If he wants to argue teaching sex education at 10 years old is too early, that’s reasonable to me and can be looked at. I can see that, maybe it is too young.

But he’s equating pornography to sexual health material and thus trying to assert sexual health material has neural repercussions.

[/quote]

Several of the studies were on sexually explicit material and the general normalization of sex to young people.

Additionally, I know for a fact that there is little difference between a naked woman in a playboy and a naked woman in a text book in the mind of a young boy.[/quote]

I reject the idea that sexual health material should be considered on par with pornography.

If sex education was truly damaging kids, sloth would be able to present a study that clearly mentioned sex health material. He can’t. Guess why?[/quote]

Really? I consider a 10 year old having knowledge of sex, masturbation, homosexuality est. to be damage. [/quote]

Good for you.

Now provide evidence for your opinion. Otherwise it’s nothing but another unsupported opinion.
[/quote]

You need evidence of sexual images being…well, sexual?
[/quote]

I need evidence that providing sexual health material to children is damaging.

Sloth makes no distinction between showing it to a 10 year old or a 12 year old.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
look at pictures of other children bending over to fondle themselves in a handheld mirror. [/quote]

That’s not sexual? A boy, and a girl, masturbating in bed isn’t sexual? Anything to defend the addiction.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

Really? I consider a 10 year old having knowledge of sex, masturbation, homosexuality est. to be damage. [/quote]

Good for you.

Now provide evidence for your opinion. Otherwise it’s nothing but another unsupported opinion.
[/quote]

Uh, you don’t seem to be getting it. Damage is a value judgment. It’s an opinion. Them having that knowledge is damage in my opinion. You cannot prove a value judgment by definition. Nor can you disprove it.

But, more importantly, I think the demand is being placed on the wrong side of the argument here. PP is actively going out and spending tax dollars to do these things to children. The people doing this to children (using my money) should not only need to prove it’s not hurting kids, but that there is some definite benefit to the kids that justifies the expense.

You got any proof on that?

[quote]therajraj wrote:

I need evidence that providing sexual health material to children is damaging.

Sloth makes no distinction between showing it to a 10 year old or a 12 year old.[/quote]

Damage is an opinion. To a pimp of underage girls, a 10 year old knowing about anal sex isn’t damaging, to me it is. You cannot prove a value judgment.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
I thought this was supposed to be a non religious discussion.[/quote]

Only the religious don’t want child pornography handed to children? Thanks for the compliment.

Did you read the article on the first post? I didn’t see anything about pornography there.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

Uh, you don’t seem to be getting it. Damage is a value judgment. It’s an opinion. Them having that knowledge is damage in my opinion. You cannot prove a value judgment by definition. Nor can you disprove it.[/quote]

If you agree that sexual health material is causing neural repercussions or “damage” you have to show how it is.

Good for you, I think it’s damaging not to teach children about sexual health education. Since damage is my opinion, I don’t have a to prove it right?

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

But, more importantly, I think the demand is being placed on the wrong side of the argument here. PP is actively going out and spending tax dollars to do these things to children. The people doing this to children (using my money) should not only need to prove it’s not hurting kids, but that there is some definite benefit to the kids that justifies the expense.

You got any proof on that?[/quote]

But it’s showing that it prevents teen pregnancies.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/...80319151225.htm

Teens who received comprehensive sex education were 60 percent less likely to report becoming pregnant or impregnating someone than those who received no sex education.
The likelihood of pregnancy was 30 percent lower among those who had abstinence-only education compared to those who received no sex education, but the researchers deemed that number statistically insignificant because few teens fit into the categories that researchers analyzed.

http://advocatesforyouth.org/.../1487?task=view

Researchers studied the National Survey of Family Growth to determine the impact of sexuality education on youth sexual risk-taking for young people ages 15-19, and found that teens who received comprehensive sex education were 50 percent less likely to experience pregnancy than those who received abstinence-only education.6
Researcher Douglas Kirby for the National Campaign to End Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy examined studies of prevention programs which had a strong experimental design and used appropriate analysis. Two-thirds of the 48 comprehensive sex ed programs studied had positive effects.
40 percent delayed sexual initiation, reduced the number of sexual partners, or increased condom or contraceptive use.
30 percent reduced the frequency of sex, including a return to abstinence.
60 percent reduced unprotected sex.

And you have no basis for your “damage” and provide this cop out answer that Damage is simply a value judgement.

Now that they’re primed, and accepted as sexualized beings, they’re going to need some contraception. And in it’s absence or failure, abortion. Hmm, if only an organization with a vested interest in those things, and access to tax-payer funds, existed. Hmmm.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Did you read the article on the first post? I didn’t see anything about pornography there.[/quote]

Oh, we shouldn’t bring this aspect up. Shh. Shh.

And it doesn’t come close to the pre-sexual revolution ability to order sex and child-bearing. It just manages it’s own decay.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Did you read the article on the first post? I didn’t see anything about pornography there.[/quote]

I pointed this out in another thread.

They consider abortion a holacaust but love to keep down proven techniques to prevent abortion.

Contraception use = wrong even for fully grown adults

Teaching sex education to young adults (fine 10 may be too young) but 12-14 year olds. And it shows it works.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

Uh, you don’t seem to be getting it. Damage is a value judgment. It’s an opinion. Them having that knowledge is damage in my opinion. You cannot prove a value judgment by definition. Nor can you disprove it.[/quote]

If you agree that sexual health material is causing neural repercussions or “damage” you have to show how it is.

Good for you, I think it’s damaging not to teach children about sexual health education. Since damage is my opinion, I don’t have a to prove it right?

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

But, more importantly, I think the demand is being placed on the wrong side of the argument here. PP is actively going out and spending tax dollars to do these things to children. The people doing this to children (using my money) should not only need to prove it’s not hurting kids, but that there is some definite benefit to the kids that justifies the expense.

You got any proof on that?[/quote]

But it’s showing that it prevents teen pregnancies.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/...80319151225.htm

Teens who received comprehensive sex education were 60 percent less likely to report becoming pregnant or impregnating someone than those who received no sex education.
The likelihood of pregnancy was 30 percent lower among those who had abstinence-only education compared to those who received no sex education, but the researchers deemed that number statistically insignificant because few teens fit into the categories that researchers analyzed.

http://advocatesforyouth.org/.../1487?task=view

Researchers studied the National Survey of Family Growth to determine the impact of sexuality education on youth sexual risk-taking for young people ages 15-19, and found that teens who received comprehensive sex education were 50 percent less likely to experience pregnancy than those who received abstinence-only education.6
Researcher Douglas Kirby for the National Campaign to End Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy examined studies of prevention programs which had a strong experimental design and used appropriate analysis. Two-thirds of the 48 comprehensive sex ed programs studied had positive effects.
40 percent delayed sexual initiation, reduced the number of sexual partners, or increased condom or contraceptive use.
30 percent reduced the frequency of sex, including a return to abstinence.
60 percent reduced unprotected sex.

And you have no basis for your “damage” and provide this cop out answer that Damage is simply a value judgement.
[/quote]

I never said anything about neurological changes.

I think innocent kids knowing about these things is damage. My only proof then is that teaching them about sex leads them to know about sex.

And again, I would consider a 10 yearold having protected sex to be morally wrong too.

The other side is that it’s the general normalization of sex that has lead to more kids getting pregnant to begin with. Instead of trying to show them the “right” side of sexualization, maybe I’d rather prevent all sexualization at that age.

But again, going back to PP, all of these moral judgments are very personal and tax money has no business going to one side of the judgment.

30, 58, 60% Out of wedlock birth rates. The sexualized generation grows up.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Did you read the article on the first post? I didn’t see anything about pornography there.[/quote]

I pointed this out in another thread.

They consider abortion a holacaust but love to keep down proven techniques to prevent abortion.

Contraception use = wrong even for fully grown adults

Teaching masterbation to children using money taken from people who find it morally wrong. And it shows it works.
[/quote]

Fixed that for you.

Castration of infants would prevent abortion too, but I’d be against that also. There are huge holes in your logic.