I’m in NS and can’t afford the trip to Ontario and they probably won’t offer mail service if I got the script there. It’s really a shame my situation. I hate being low T. But apparently it’s fine because I’m in range. I’m going to continue to track and try my best to lose the rest of my weight even though it’ll be difficult I think I can. I have an appointment with the only private clinic in my area October 30 and hopefully they’ll offer a solution to my issues. If they can’t and I’m still symptomatic I can do it all myself as I’ve come up with a detailed thought out plan for self prescribed. Do you think it’s worth getting other thyroid hormones checked since my TSH is 1.9? Im also getting a sleep study done to rule out sleep apnea. I’m basically checking every option out there before going with the what seems like enevitable self prescribed TRT option.
“In range” exists for two reasons: one is because the range of possibilities for any man at any given time is quite broad, and two is because insurance companies need a cutoff point. My trt is paid out of pocket because I was within range. But I didn’t feel well and chose to pay for my health as if it was simply another necessary bill, like a mortgage or a car payment. You may well be in the same place. Numbers mean nothing if you feel like shit and can’t get any better on your own.
I don’t think there is a thyroid problem with a TSH of 1.9, my advice is run a thyroid panel if a non-responder to TRT. TSH fluctuates when demand is increased, normal TSH is <1.5 but have seen some <2.5 and no problems.
The reference ranges for both thyroid and TRT in use today are sampled from a population that is more sedentary than ever and eat crappy food, hardly a measure of a population that is healthy.
Reference ranges for TSH and thyroid hormones
Though TSH remains the most commonly used endocrine test in clinical practice, the issue of an appropriate TSH, and to a lesser extent, free T4 and free T3 reference ranges is still under debate. First of all the distribution of TSH reference range is not normal, with median values (also depending on population iodine intake) usually between 1-1.5 mU/L.
If you are not fat, go for it. Worst case scenario buy ug.
I have about 20lbs I can lose. Plan is to lose that, evaluate symtoms, recheck levels, and decide from there. Thing is I’ve been about the weight that I’m at now many times in my life before the low T symtoms showed up and I felt great at this weight. We’ll see what happens though
Sorry ment to tag you there. I keep making that mistake lol
What is your bodyfat % and bmi?
I wonder if using Liquidex (its legal for you to order online and use that?) could push your testosterone up without commiting a crime i.e. buying black market testo.
This of course requires that:
- Liquidex or other “research anastrozole” is legal, and
- Your LH is ‘not maxed out’.
25%bf, 28.7bmi.
Im in very similar situation like you(we’ve already chat) and now I’m focused on loosing fat. I need to see if this will improve my T numbers and also the less fat you have - the less side effects and problems on TRT. Its worthy to try to get in shape before TRT, I know its damn hard.
Sorry If I’ve already asked you but do you take metformin? For me this is a HUGE game changer. Tons of research about it, only good stuff…
I do not take metformin
Its worthy
Take it from someone who has been exactly where you are man. You’re on a very slippery slope, but it can be climbed.
I would stay away from UGL Test if at all possible. If you can’t find a doc or clinic in your area, then you will have limited options. You may have to do telemedicine if possible.
As far as losing the weight…I’ve been there. It’s damn near impossible to get where you need to be with low T. The body just can’t support the vigorous strain and is always in a state of survival. Metabolism goes to shit, cortisol levels stay chronically elevated, and eventually you wind up with adrenal fatigue and are depressed and defeated. I fought this battle for almost two years before I started TRT.
The stress that you put on your body trying to lose fat will drive T even lower. It’s like kicking a block wall. It’s a viscous cycle man and you will tailspin.
If you are dead set on trying to lose the weight in the state you’re in right now, and have no options whatsoever to start TRT correctly, then my only advice to you would be to look into Keto short term, and stay away from heavy lifting and high intensity cardio. It will make you lose fat. Once you get to an acceptable fat level, you can slowly start working carbs back in and getting your diet to a healthy balance (somewhere around 40/30/30) utilizing clean food choices, and then try incorporating moderate exercise to start getting things back to good. It’s a long road, and one that has to be driven slowly, but it isn’t impossible, just damn near.
Good luck with it brother.
No telemedicine where I live in Canada. Thing is with my total T at 600 i feel like I can maybe push it up a bit higher if I try really hard. Only options for now as far as TRT goes is UG but I don’t really mind that and have done a ton of research so I think I’m ready for sure. I’m just nervous to shut down natural production, I will if I have to but I want to give natural my 100% effort first. Sadly I’ll probably wind up going the UG route in the end, but oh well, it’s cheap.
I have to applaud Systemlord’s statement
As I indicated in my thread regarding the issues I’ve had getting TRT and those that arise during TRT, I “had” to get a new primary care doctor for my insurance company. They assigned me one, he was a total retard. I actually forced him to admit he had no clue. Talk about a humbling moment. I fired my orthopedic surgeon, I had to go to “private” or “concierge” medicine. There I found what appear to be seriously competent doctors who do nothing but provide these types of services with expert care and knowledge. My understanding of the Canadian health system is that Ottawa is supposed to shut down Docs who “charge” extra for faster appointments, or more compenent care quickly, if they bill the “state” insurance system. However, I am aware there are several that do this as I read several articles a while back about it.
I actually had this fight with Physical Thereapy, I have a slightly torn bicep tendon (distal end) of my dominant arm. I was coincidentally starting TRT about the same time [that I was diagnosed and told I must have frankenstein surgery with a cadaver allograft to fix it], now I’m back lifting, arm is working 100x better, pain is from a 9 to a 2 or 1 (usually a 3 after bicep day) etc… since starting TRT - bicep tendon pain (pretty much gone)-- AFIB during cardio (gone)-- Arthritis in L1-L4 where I fell down 27 stairs and broke my back in 6 places. (pain gone)
Orthopedic Surgeon says “Oh that’s not an approved course of therapy for pain management and it won’t work.” Yep, thats why they are kicking me out of physical therapy. They can’t treat me anymore. I exceed all normal tests. Grip strength went from 26 lbs. in my right hand to 161 lbs in 30 days almost to the day. Same with their other tests.
The conversation should start with “My Doctor referred me for TRT. When can we begin?” If the answer is “Well, we’ll have to do x, y, z… then say ok, nice talking to you.” Find a private Doctor, correct me if I’m wrong, but there is still some private medicine in Canada? Yes, no?
I pay about $200.00 per month for my TRT people and that includes meds, consults with docs, everything, 0 drama.
Get a competent Doc, even if you have to pay for one cash. BTW, Nova Scotia (Halifax) to Maine is not that far. I drive it often. It’s a beautiful island.
MS
You really should see an endo-- or urologist. Is it possible that you don’t have a Thyroid issue, some kind of metabolic syndrome???
I was tired, dragging, had a history of Low-T since I was your age, high blood pressure (like mortally high 230/180 kinda crazy shit), pre-diabetes on and off, low T, high E2, ass dragging constantly. It just got so bad, like you I had to act.
However, I am still having a lot of issues as a result of that “metabolic syndrome” but they are rapidly correcting themselves. The problem with self-diagnosis is that you are jaded and self-centered in thinking and you don’t look at yourself like the lab rat that the Doctor sees when he looks at you… or the capitation payment he sees depending on things. You might benefit from having the Doc pull an extensive hormone panel, Male, Female (estrogen, progesterone, prolactin, FSH, etc…) I’ve been doing a lot of research into this at the local college medical library for my own benefit and for my Wife’s benefit.
Apparently not all things are what they appear and in men, slight changes in those Female hormones can cause CRAZY shit to happen from a psychological/physiological level.
So seeing a Doctor is kind of important and you need baseline #'s anyhow.
MS
Yeah it may not be the T, but I feel it certainly has a role to play, getting prolactin checked this week and I should’ve asked for progesterone. It’s hard being patient about this stuff especially in Canada where it can take months of waiting in between appointments. As for thyroid my TSH has come back at 1.9 in morning and .95 in afternoon. Doctor said there’s no point in checking other thyroid hormones because my TSH is so good. Although I’m going to get him to check free t4 , t3 and reverse t3 next time I see him. Maybe TRT isn’t what I need, but if I can’t get symtom resolution naturally and the docs are there shaking their heads, I’m gonna give it a try myself. On the other hand my testosterone has come up quite a bit naturally, I was at 1.9 bioavailable (2.5-10) and now am at 4.6, but I’m still not getting morning wood, have weak erections, and low libido. Perhaps it takes a while for the body to adjust to higher levels? I’m gonna give myself a bit more time, and go down every avenue before trying TRT, but at the end of the day, I need my erections and libido back, can’t just live without it.
TSH is a poor biomarker and correlates with symptoms poorly, you doctors is just is uneducated and/or probably afraid of getting in trouble for excessive testing. I’ve seen lots of men with good TSH and low thyroid hormones, once saw a guy with a TSH 1.13 and Free T3 was abnormally low.
This is the price you pay for going with state paid based medicine where corners are routinely cut to save the state on healthcare costs. If you have an HMO or going through socialized medicine be prepared to pay for your own testing because your doctor will very likely put up a fight.
TSH on most test – from what I’ve read and learned is a sort of calculation. It isn’t an accurate test unless there is something wrong that could kill you essentially. You need to do them individually as Systemlord has indicated.
My post was not to dissuade or persuade you that your thoughts are incorrect, just that you need to run your baselines for all Androgenic hormones, your Thyroid Hormones, FSH, LH, SBGH, Prolactin, Progesterone, Estrogen, etc. People tend to forget that elevated progesterone apparently causes almost all the same symptoms as estrogen. I’m actually going to get mine tested shortly to make sure its not crazy high apparently if you have elevated estrogen and progesterone together shit gets crazy.
So… BTW, don’t they have better-- private insurance in Canada? Someone I know in Ottawa was telling me you can get better insurance through your employer? I’m not certain if I understood that correctly.
I’m American, so I’m not 100% clued in on that stuff. I just visit Canada a lot. It’s a beautiful country.
BTW, for insurance purposes have him indicate non-specific lethargy and fatigue in addition to low T or even Metabolic Syndrome if Canada’s system recognizes that.
MS
Basically you can get insurance through your employer if they offer benefits to their employees, but you still have to go through the same wait times and processes that everyone else does, Healthcare is free so it takes a long time to have simple things like ultrasounds, ect. Then you have your insurance to help pay for any prescriptions. I’m gonna get progesterone, LH, FSH, and a full thyroid panel next.
Really hoping that in the end I figure out what the hell is wrong with me. My bioavailable T is in the lower 30% of the range still so I feel like if it was doubled or perhaps even tripled how wouldn’t I feel better. But then there’s people telling me I’m 100% wrong about that. I give it another month or so before I get sick of the low libido, lame erections, depression and anxiety before I jump on TRT to see if it helps.
@markis655
Just incase they don’t know what a full thyroid panel is.
