Commander of SEAL Team 4 Commits Suicide

Off Topic
41

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Sad news.
What struck me was his age, 42.
Seems a bit old for such frontline shenanigans. Maybe there should be something like a 10 year limit for these kind of jobs[/quote]

Actually it is pretty average. Maybe a bit on the older side, but within range of average for spec ops. You are not even allowed to apply for Delta force unless you are over 30.

Spec ops command is a bit of a different animal.[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but you have to make at least Captain or Major before trying out; most officers make captain before they’re 30. But you are correct - spec ops is definitely take a bigger psychological toll on the personnel.

CS[/quote]

You don’t have to be over 30. There isn’t an age requirement, there is a time in rate/service requirement.
[/quote]

He said before they were 30. I was 25.[/quote]

I was referring to the Delta screening age not making Captain.

42

[quote]texas man wrote:

Sorry just history geek in me but corn wasn’t even introduced in the roman world
They called wheat corn, the Latin phrase translates to corn but it was wheat. The common roman provisions were bread and water.

[/quote]

Yes you’re right. Gibbon and Mommsen both used the word corn.

43

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]texas man wrote:

Sorry just history geek in me but corn wasn’t even introduced in the roman world
They called wheat corn, the Latin phrase translates to corn but it was wheat. The common roman provisions were bread and water.

[/quote]

Yes you’re right. Gibbon and Mommsen both used the word corn.[/quote]

Lol at Conservative Dog’s trolling attempts.

44

[quote]Legionary wrote:

Lol at Conservative Dog’s trolling attempts.[/quote]

What you’re doing is called being a wuss because you have no point to make, but you won’t STFU.

You’re mad deep inside because you know I’m right and aren’t sure what your commander in chief really stands for besides robbing the country’s working class to give to illegals and a-holes that don’t have a job but riot over a $140 pair of retro Jordan basketball shoes.

He cares so much for America’s military he’s going to let it go down the toilet in the next four years.

45

Heard on interesting take on this today on NPR.

There was an military wife that had posted on youtube her troubles with the backlog at the VA and how long it took to get benefits. In her husbands case it took two years and she said he had just given up. If it wasn’t for her fighting for them he may very well have taken his own life out of frustration. Her words.

According to the VA they have greatly opened up the classifications for eligibility and in doing so have become overwhelmed with applicants.

46

There is much fear and paranoia about the coming year and it shows in the actions of many.

47

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:

Lol at Conservative Dog’s trolling attempts.[/quote]

What you’re doing is called being a wuss because you have no point to make, but you won’t STFU.

You’re mad deep inside because you know I’m right and aren’t sure what your commander in chief really stands for besides robbing the country’s working class to give to illegals and a-holes that don’t have a job but riot over a $140 pair of retro Jordan basketball shoes.

He cares so much for America’s military he’s going to let it go down the toilet in the next four years.

[/quote]

Lol why do they even bother with the last two? and where is george bush jr?

48

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:

Lol at Conservative Dog’s trolling attempts.[/quote]

What you’re doing is called being a wuss because you have no point to make, but you won’t STFU.

You’re mad deep inside because you know I’m right and aren’t sure what your commander in chief really stands for besides robbing the country’s working class to give to illegals and a-holes that don’t have a job but riot over a $140 pair of retro Jordan basketball shoes.

He cares so much for America’s military he’s going to let it go down the toilet in the next four years.

[/quote]

You might want to look into the nature of Reagans “military service”.

49

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:

Lol at Conservative Dog’s trolling attempts.[/quote]

What you’re doing is called being a wuss because you have no point to make, but you won’t STFU.

You’re mad deep inside because you know I’m right and aren’t sure what your commander in chief really stands for besides robbing the country’s working class to give to illegals and a-holes that don’t have a job but riot over a $140 pair of retro Jordan basketball shoes.

He cares so much for America’s military he’s going to let it go down the toilet in the next four years.

[/quote]

You might want to look into the nature of Reagans “military service”.

[/quote]

Reagan’s service:

'After completing fourteen home-study Army Extension Courses, Reagan enlisted in the Army Enlisted Reserve on April 29, 1937, as a private assigned to Troop B, 322nd Cavalry at Des Moines, Iowa. He was commissioned a second lieutenant in the Officers Reserve Corps of the cavalry on May 25, 1937.

Reagan was ordered to active duty for the first time on April 18, 1942. Due to his nearsightedness, he was classified for limited service only, which excluded him from serving overseas. His first assignment was at the San Francisco Port of Embarkation at Fort Mason, California, as a liaison officer of the Port and Transportation Office. Upon the approval of the Army Air Force (AAF), he applied for a transfer from the cavalry to the AAF on May 15, 1942, and was assigned to AAF Public Relations and subsequently to the First Motion Picture Unit (officially, the “18th Army Air Force Base Unit”) in Culver City, California. On January 14, 1943, he was promoted to first lieutenant and was sent to the Provisional Task Force Show Unit of This Is The Army at Burbank, California. He returned to the First Motion Picture Unit after completing this duty and was promoted to captain on July 22, 1943.

In January 1944, Reagan was ordered to temporary duty in New York City to participate in the opening of the Sixth War Loan Drive. He was re-assigned to the First Motion Picture Unit on November 14, 1944, where he remained until the end of World War II. He was recommended for promotion to major on February 2, 1945, but this recommendation was disapproved on July 17 of that year…He returned to Fort MacArthur, California, where he was separated from active duty on December 9, 1945. By the end of the war, his units had produced some 400 training films for the AAF.

Reagan never left the United States during the war, though he kept a film reel, obtained while in the service, depicting the liberation of Auschwitz, as he believed that someday doubts would arise as to whether the Holocaust had occurred.’

Barack Hussein Obama’s service:…

50

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:

Lol at Conservative Dog’s trolling attempts.[/quote]

What you’re doing is called being a wuss because you have no point to make, but you won’t STFU.

You’re mad deep inside because you know I’m right and aren’t sure what your commander in chief really stands for besides robbing the country’s working class to give to illegals and a-holes that don’t have a job but riot over a $140 pair of retro Jordan basketball shoes.

He cares so much for America’s military he’s going to let it go down the toilet in the next four years.

[/quote]

You might want to look into the nature of Reagans “military service”.

[/quote]

Reagan’s service:

'After completing fourteen home-study Army Extension Courses, Reagan enlisted in the Army Enlisted Reserve on April 29, 1937, as a private assigned to Troop B, 322nd Cavalry at Des Moines, Iowa. He was commissioned a second lieutenant in the Officers Reserve Corps of the cavalry on May 25, 1937.

Reagan was ordered to active duty for the first time on April 18, 1942. Due to his nearsightedness, he was classified for limited service only, which excluded him from serving overseas. His first assignment was at the San Francisco Port of Embarkation at Fort Mason, California, as a liaison officer of the Port and Transportation Office. Upon the approval of the Army Air Force (AAF), he applied for a transfer from the cavalry to the AAF on May 15, 1942, and was assigned to AAF Public Relations and subsequently to the First Motion Picture Unit (officially, the “18th Army Air Force Base Unit”) in Culver City, California. On January 14, 1943, he was promoted to first lieutenant and was sent to the Provisional Task Force Show Unit of This Is The Army at Burbank, California. He returned to the First Motion Picture Unit after completing this duty and was promoted to captain on July 22, 1943.

In January 1944, Reagan was ordered to temporary duty in New York City to participate in the opening of the Sixth War Loan Drive. He was re-assigned to the First Motion Picture Unit on November 14, 1944, where he remained until the end of World War II. He was recommended for promotion to major on February 2, 1945, but this recommendation was disapproved on July 17 of that year…He returned to Fort MacArthur, California, where he was separated from active duty on December 9, 1945. By the end of the war, his units had produced some 400 training films for the AAF.

Reagan never left the United States during the war, though he kept a film reel, obtained while in the service, depicting the liberation of Auschwitz, as he believed that someday doubts would arise as to whether the Holocaust had occurred.’

Barack Hussein Obama’s service:…[/quote]

Yeah, he made movies.

George Bush I on the other hand…

Just saying, he was in the army.

Technically.

Well at least he learned how to act and ride.

Also, technically.

51

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:

Lol at Conservative Dog’s trolling attempts.[/quote]

What you’re doing is called being a wuss because you have no point to make, but you won’t STFU.

You’re mad deep inside because you know I’m right and aren’t sure what your commander in chief really stands for besides robbing the country’s working class to give to illegals and a-holes that don’t have a job but riot over a $140 pair of retro Jordan basketball shoes.

He cares so much for America’s military he’s going to let it go down the toilet in the next four years.

[/quote]

Lol why do they even bother with the last two? and where is george bush jr? [/quote]

Bush is in the bottom left…??

52

[quote]critietaeta wrote:

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:

Lol at Conservative Dog’s trolling attempts.[/quote]

What you’re doing is called being a wuss because you have no point to make, but you won’t STFU.

You’re mad deep inside because you know I’m right and aren’t sure what your commander in chief really stands for besides robbing the country’s working class to give to illegals and a-holes that don’t have a job but riot over a $140 pair of retro Jordan basketball shoes.

He cares so much for America’s military he’s going to let it go down the toilet in the next four years.

[/quote]

Lol why do they even bother with the last two? and where is george bush jr? [/quote]

Bush is in the bottom left…??
[/quote]

thought it was senior since the order was mixed up having clinton next to obama

53

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]boatguy wrote:
I’ve never looked into what form of therapy was available to returning troops after WWII, but I have heard there were more accounts of ‘shell shock’ from Pacific returnees than European ones. Perhaps because after the European theater ended, a good portion of the troops remained there long enough to transition from a combat mindset back to a peacetime one.

I think it is also noteworthy that back in the day (as recent as 20 years ago), the military image of SEALs/SF was of hard training, hard fighting, hard partying men. They went out, did the job, and then came back to blow off steam. Hard drinking and minor shenanigans (from a legal standpoint) were a way to relieve stress, and while looked down on by the conventional force commanders, was swept under the rug with a nod and wink.

Boys will be boys, and all that. Then, in the early-90s (right before I joined), there was a definite culture shift away from that. Special Operators were expected to go out, do the dirty work, then come home, bottle it up, and act as if they just returned from a training trip. As has been said above, no matter how hard or driven an operator is, no one can bottle that kind of stress up for too long. It will find it’s own way out.[/quote]

I recall one writer saying that Seals used to come from “the mills” but “now they come from the malls.” I guess the implication was that the men not as “rough and tough.”

Can I ask your thoughts on this?[/quote]

How so? I’m not trying to act like I’m part of the community but I’ve read and listened to active and former team guys. There are instructors saying BUDs is the toughest it’s ever been. It’s probably like with anything else how the older generation thinks it’s worse for them.

54

[quote]conservativedog wrote:
What you’re doing is called being a wuss because you have no point to make, but you won’t STFU.

You’re mad deep inside because you know I’m right and aren’t sure what your commander in chief really stands for besides robbing the country’s working class to give to illegals and a-holes that don’t have a job but riot over a $140 pair of retro Jordan basketball shoes.

He cares so much for America’s military he’s going to let it go down the toilet in the next four years.

[/quote]

Take your political drivel downstairs asshole. This thread is about a Navy Cdr who committed suicide not about which presidents served and which didn’t.

Oh, which branch did you serve in?

james

55

[quote]b89 wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]boatguy wrote:
I’ve never looked into what form of therapy was available to returning troops after WWII, but I have heard there were more accounts of ‘shell shock’ from Pacific returnees than European ones. Perhaps because after the European theater ended, a good portion of the troops remained there long enough to transition from a combat mindset back to a peacetime one.

I think it is also noteworthy that back in the day (as recent as 20 years ago), the military image of SEALs/SF was of hard training, hard fighting, hard partying men. They went out, did the job, and then came back to blow off steam. Hard drinking and minor shenanigans (from a legal standpoint) were a way to relieve stress, and while looked down on by the conventional force commanders, was swept under the rug with a nod and wink.

Boys will be boys, and all that. Then, in the early-90s (right before I joined), there was a definite culture shift away from that. Special Operators were expected to go out, do the dirty work, then come home, bottle it up, and act as if they just returned from a training trip. As has been said above, no matter how hard or driven an operator is, no one can bottle that kind of stress up for too long. It will find it’s own way out.[/quote]

I recall one writer saying that Seals used to come from “the mills” but “now they come from the malls.” I guess the implication was that the men not as “rough and tough.”

Can I ask your thoughts on this?[/quote]

How so? I’m not trying to act like I’m part of the community but I’ve read and listened to active and former team guys. There are instructors saying BUDs is the toughest it’s ever been. It’s probably like with anything else how the older generation thinks it’s worse for them. [/quote]

Might be wrong, but I think the implication has to do with where the guys came from before they were SEALs (i.e. blue collar type backgrounds in the literal “mills” and such) as opposed to the training itself.

58

I’ve been reading a few things about military suicides – the article linked below is of note. Cliff’s notes version – military doctors are over-medicating, and grossly mis-medicating, PTSD cases. One of the most notable examples of this is the use of anti-psychotics as a shoddy substitute for proper PTSD treatment & medication.

Anti-psychotics (including mellaril and similar medications) often have the effect of creating a sense of detachment and mild dissociation (not to be confused with the dissociation of ketamine or the like) – the warnings are quite specific, and list an increase of suicidal thoughts & tendencies amongst their primary side-effects.

Anyhow, the link –

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/mdd/content/article/10168/2103476

59

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Sad news.
What struck me was his age, 42.
Seems a bit old for such frontline shenanigans. Maybe there should be something like a 10 year limit for these kind of jobs[/quote]

Actually it is pretty average. Maybe a bit on the older side, but within range of average for spec ops. You are not even allowed to apply for Delta force unless you are over 30.

Spec ops command is a bit of a different animal.[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but you have to make at least Captain or Major before trying out; most officers make captain before they’re 30. But you are correct - spec ops is definitely take a bigger psychological toll on the personnel.

CS[/quote]

You don’t have to be over 30. There isn’t an age requirement, there is a time in rate/service requirement.
[/quote]

He said before they were 30. I was 25.[/quote]

I sa id 30, but I only mentioned that in reference to delta force specifically. I know you can drop packet for others before (much before) then. My source might be wrong about Delta too, but as he’s a current officer going to drop his packet in the next month or so I’ll believe him. Delta boys are different most other operators in a number of ways anyway, this wouldnt surprise me.

My main point tho was simply that special operators are not necessarily supposed to be young overall, as long as theyre top of the food chain in physicality, that was the general point.

EDIT–i suppose I should make sure to mention that I was not under the impression it was a “hard limit” on delta application age, but more that they almost never took anybody who was significantly under 30.

Again, I might very well have been misinformed. But I dont really have a reason to disbelieve my friend, who’s been talking with a number of associates spec ops guys prior to dropping his packet.

60

Once again, not trying to act like I’m part of the community. I’m just going off of what I’ve read and answering questions with my basic knowledge of it. I’ve read the stories of drinking and hazing just like anybody else. I’m sure it still goes on too. Personally, I could see why the Navy would want to get away with that though. With how much time and money it takes to make SEALs it wouldn’t really make any sense to risk losing them to something like getting hurt in a bar fight or getting arrested because of one.

What people within the community do is also a reflection of the community. There’s also pretty high standards for the community and they’re trusted to do some very high risk things. It’s like if a cop got caught getting into a bar fight, people hold them to a higher standard and it can make people doubt the professionalism of other people in his career field.

Personally, I’ve never heard of a age restriction for Delta. I think that realistically people of a certain age group are going to make it to that elite level. It takes time for people to build their reputation and prepare for that kind of selection, they also have to question whether or not they would like to try out for something that demanding in the first place.