Dumb huh? Well YOU are the DUMB one because it is obvious that you didn’t understand what I said unless of course you are one of those PC types, which I suspect, because you have taken offense to my statement. You should think before you speak. I will explain to you since you cannot comprehend english. If the USA closed it’s borders you would hear PC people cry that we are no longer a free society, to that I say bullshit, I don’t care what PC people think! In short closing our borders DOES NOT make us any less of a free society it protects us. Hopefully that was plain enough english that you were able to understand it.
I haven’t weighed in on this lively thread for a couple of days 'cause it’s the long weekend up here, & I’ve been having more fun playing naked volleyball with the Olson girls from next door than I would have sitting in front of the old Mac. So now I’m back, here goes:
Demo, I think you pretty much captured what I meant by using our brains to deal with these kinds of issues; I don’t think you really advocate closing the borders. I agree that tightly controlled access is the way to go. On the point of temporarily suspending the issuing of visas, I don’t really see the merit unless you have so little confidence in the ability of Immigration staff, the FBI, CIA, etc. to do proper screening that you think it’s necessary. I think they’re up to the task now days, especially when it comes to screening applicants from abroad before they arrive. Incidentally, you mentioned that holders of valid passports from NATO countries should be among those granted access to the US. In fact, all NATO countries are known to have well- established Al Quaeda cells operating within them. I think it’s going to take really well orchestrated counter-subversive activities on the ground in all western countries to really halt the threat. On the subject of profiling, which neither Wolverine or I initially addressed, I think everybody profiles, everyday, whether they’re allowed to or not. I think the big weakness in our system is that security personnel aren’t properly trained to profile potential terrorists, irrespective of their race or country of origin. Would anyone have profiled the Taliban kid from California if he hed been sent home to cause some trouble? I had the pleasure of using Heathrow airport in London a couple of days after international flights resumed last September, and was hugely impressed by both the competence and politeness of the security staff. But they are well trained security forces, who have been dealing with internal threats like the IRA, etc for many years.
Wolverine, I’m not sure if I took you too literally in terms of closing the borders- maybe you didn’t mean completely sealing yourselves off from the world, but obviously some people here believe that’s a good idea, & I think that’s really niave. This is not being PC it’s being realistic. OK, I’m headed for the gym, see y’all later.
Here’s a link to an interesting speech on the American police state. Is America a Police State?
I have teen-age boys, so we go see every sci-fi movie that comes out. Tremors is an old favorite. Bert is the best, esp. in the second one. Rememer, the collapse of the Soviet Union destroyed his marriage :). As for Ted, Double Live Gonzo is still a favorite, and I always watch when I hear he is going to be interviewed. I will check out the book. (Didn’t he and his sweetie do a cook book too?)
“On the point of temporarily suspending the issuing of visas, I don’t really see the merit unless you have so little confidence in the ability of Immigration staff, the FBI, CIA, etc. to do proper screening that you think it’s necessary.”
I absolutely don’t have any faith in those particular institutions. If you have ever dealt withany of them, INS in particular, you wouldn’t either.
“I think they're up to the task now days, especially when it comes to screening applicants from abroad before they arrive. Incidentally, you mentioned that holders of valid passports from NATO countries should be among those granted access to the US. In fact, all NATO countries are known to have well- established Al Quaeda cells operating within them.”
It doesn’t necessarily have to be a passport from a NATO country, but a handwritten note from some guy named Cheech that says “Holder of this note is not a terrorist” shouldn’t cut it, and it seems like that’s where we are. Any system that more closely scrutinizes the paperwork AND the people holding it would work. I just don’t think we’re focusing on catching the bad guys.
Huck, go here:
http://www.tednugent.com
The cookbook you mentioned should be on the front page. There is just something about a beautiful woman cradling a finely crafted firearm. And yup, seen Tremors 2. I love the line in the first one when Kevin Bacon asks Bert “What’s that?” “Cannon fuse.” “What for?” (Bert looks incredulous) “For my cannon!” :)
…land of thuh freeeeeeeeeeeee, and thuh hooooooooooome of thuuuuuuuuuuh braaaaaaaaaaaaaave… Demo, if you weren’t a Jarhead you should have been. To you dick-skinnin’, shit-lickin’, rusty gates out there; I will defend to the death your right of expressing whatever the hell you want to in our great country but I also demand the same consideration especially when it concerns the safety and wellbeing of my family and the people I love. I would definately lose more by NOT doing whatever is necessary to protect them even if I have to make myself especially wary towards certain types of people so others won’t have to. No, nobody asked me to do it for them, I do it because I love them and some of them are not capable of doing it themselves. Freedom is not free. Semper Fi.
Close the border now. Then take every single illegal person in this country and get rid of them. Boot them out NOW not later NOW. Then make it extremely difficult to get into this country for any reason and in fact all other countries should adopt this attitude for awhile. Then for the next 10-20 years we along with other responsible, respectful and intelligent countries should clean house across the globe. First destroy terrorists forever. Then go after violent criminals and hate groups and get rid of them. While this is going on we must form a education policy that has a very high bar. All people should have to complete high school even at this new harder level before being allowed to vote and noone should be allowed to quit school until they are 18. These are just examples of how we can make this world a better place for all of us. I have more ideas, I am a republican but I have a very open mind and I do hope that one day we can live in a happier world where we can take care of one another with even more compassion than we have now but we must make extreme sacrifices before we get to that level and as a whole the HUMAN RACE is not ready. Think about it.
“Demo, if you weren’t a Jarhead you should have been.”
That is quite possibly the nicest thing that anyone has ever posted to me. Semper Fi. :)
Wolverine, what do you mean by “he happens to be an Afghan”? I challenge you to find one instance where an Afghan committed an act of terrorism. Just one.
Becoming a citizen of the United States used to be something you had to work for, something people in other countries dreamed of. Now, its become something we literally hand out. You move to this country, you damn well better speak English. Being a US citizen used to mean something, now it doesn’t quite as much. Its just another example of the downward spiral of morality in America today.
I fear losing my freedom a great deal more than getting killed by terrorists. Closing borders? What next, curfews? How about a license to take a shit. You can use is as a weapon by putting it in a paper bag, setting it on fire and throwing it at somebody’s house…No thanks! I’ll take my chances with the terrorists!
“Those who would exchange safety for freedom deserve neither”
–Charelton Heston
How would closing our borders to immigrants infringe upon our (citizens) freedom? We’re talking about keeping out people from other countries that are not yet citizens of ours. Where is the violation of my (a US citizen) liberties there?
Pat are you nuts. Seriously what is wrong with closing our borders to non citizens. You would rather take your chances with terrorists seriously listen to yourself. Stop being such a liberal for a minute and think about what you are saying. You would rather take your chances with terrorists man if that is how this country is thinking then we are in alot of trouble. Lood deal with it there are evil people in this world and it is time NOW not later to get rid of them so that good people can enjoy a safe life. Evil people do not deserve the right to be involved in any way, shape or form with this country.
Just a couple of quick questions for the few brave but misguided souls who seem to feel that profiling or closing borders would somehow make the good ol’ US of A into an unfree country.
Firstly, how would closing our borders to non-citizens make this country a less free place for its citizenry?
Controlling the borders is one of the few true duties of the federal government, and setting the standards for access is a part of that duty. It seems to me that controlling access from countries that are hostile to our interests and way of life would be a logical protection, and would not interfere with the freedoms of American citizens in any manner.
Secondly, I would like someone to explain to me why people conceive it is a violation of Constitutional civil rights to make someone who fits the description of a likely perpetrator of a crime go through one extra bag check or endure one extra metal detector test in the middle of a process in which all passengers are screened closely?
It seems to me that the government has a compelling interest (to keep innocent passengers and others from dying) to check those most likely to be perpetrators of such crimes and not to waste what are supposedly limited resources on subjecting 90-year-old grandmothers to extra searches. These are not random stops of individuals on the street to harass them, with no particular government agenda, because they look suspicious. This is much more akin to limiting the search of a rape suspect to the 5’10" - 6’1" males who fit the description of the suspect rather than questioning some 60-year-old woman. As far as I am aware, there are no suspected 90-year-old-grandmother al Queda members, but there are plenty of young-to-middle-aged Middle Eastern males on the watch list.
Close the borders?
Where are your ancestors from?
Unless you’re a native american, your genes crossed that boarder at some point too.
BUT, the joke that we call INS, the joke that we call our boarders is ridiculous. This joke we call airport security is ridiculous. We don’t need to “close” the boarders, but we need some fucking security, and I don’t mean a couple old ladies and a rent-a-cop getting paid minimum wage to stand near a metal detector. A couple of new recruits patrolling the north border of the Rio Grande in a pick-up. If people wanted by the FBI, CIA, interpol, and who knows what other organizations can walk through an airport security station and not be identified before hopping on an airplane headed in the direction of Washington DC, we’ve got some fucking issues. Lord knows technology is not the problem. This new “homeland security” agency is a good start. But I doubt it will get a fraction of the funding that it needs to be truly effective. Don’t have the money? Cut the fucking DEA’s budget, quite frankly, I don’t give a shit if my neighbors are smoking a little dope in their living room if the alternative is turing on the television and watching the world trade center collapse. Cut the fucking welfare programs, I’m sorry if people have to go out and get a fucking job. I’ve never seen a McDonalds without a help wanted sign. If a fraction of the money that goes into every political camnpaign, was put into homeland security, we’d have a far better chance of enjoying our way of life, with out civil liberties, and free of danger. The polititions in washington, Republican, Democrat, all of them need to get their heads out of their asses, and get they priorities straight. We spent millions and millions of dollars just ot see if Bill Clinton really got a blow job in the oval office for Christ’s sake. You have any idea how many security personel and equipment could have been purchased and hired for what Kenneth Starr spent in legal fees? It is absolutelly ridiculous how much money our government spends on trivial things, while making cuts from the defense department, our intelligence agencies, our security. Yeah, they’re talking big talk about the homeland security now, but give them five years without incident, and watch the cuts start rolling in again as these so-called lawmakers work to get their pet projects funded.
It infringes on my freedom to travel. Which is a freedom, if you don’t believe me, ask a Cuban.
Word up! Great ideas… especially about the DEA.
Mike I am a liberal? I didn’t say love them, I am just not willing to give into them. Therefore I refuse to change my lifestyle to accomodate some camel jockey terrorist. I think they should be erraticated, but closing the border won’t stop them from coming in. In fact it may invite them as a challenge. You can’t build a fence around the whole country.
There is no inherent right to travel internationally, only a right to travel unhindered between states. But that’s really beside the point, as I believe the proposals are to keep foreign nationals from coming in to the country, or to subject them to greater scrutiny when they do enter, not to prevent U.S. citizens from leaving or coming home.