Im not sure why it matters.
Bill Roberts is extremely helpful to many sections, and his knowledge isnt being disputed.
If he called your mother a dope fiend and a whore it doesn’t make his posts about steroids and lifting any less correct.
Whether or not Bill Roberts said anything about anyone is not only hearsay, but also irrelevant.
Uh, I thought TC was SUPPOSED to be a “joke.”
Wasn’t there a link to an article about Anthony Roberts involved in a lawsuit with another website? IIRC it was something along the lines of him stealing technology from one of those roid sites that sell bs and change the names sligtly from legit AAS. Anyway, he got found guilty and has to pay an enormous amount in reparations.
So, if that is the case then I find anything he says to be highly questionable. Whatever the origins of T-Nation, clearly TC and Tim have more than enough funds to pick and choose who they want working for them. I’m quite confident that if the Bill Roberts comments held water that he wouldn’t be working for them.
Sucks Bill isn’t here to defend himself, but Bill has always been a stand up guy from every discussion I’ve seen and he’s been an enormous help to us on this forum. The old RJ and AR threads read like a narcissist without the intelligence to back it up.
Again…just my two cents
I’m more interested in what Bill has to say about issues we broach in this forum.
I don’t know whether he said any of those things in the past or whether they were accurate if he did. I don’t place a lot of importance on snippets of supposed comments out of context. I am sure if everything any one of us ever said was analyzed for zingers that we’d look like idiots.
As to whether T-Nation is a marketing machine. I think that is self evident. That’s business and I would hope that it stems in equal part (above and beyond the profits) from a strong belief in their products.
I would like to inject some factual evidence into this thread. And of course my own opinions, too. 
I was on misc.fitness.weights pretty much all the time during 1999 (not under this name). The statements that Anthony Roberts attributes to Bill Roberts were in fact made by Bill, and are verifiable using Google Groups search, formerly Deja News.
For example, the “FUCK TC and his outfit of lying clowns” quote:
groups.google.com/group/misc.fitness.weights/browse_thread /thread/bec748fd5cf0bafe /2bc63433e33d2675?q=TC+%22lying+clowns%22+ group:misc.fitness. weights+author:Bill+author:Roberts#2bc63433e33d2675
The microbiology degree quote:
groups.google.com/group/misc.fitness.weights/browse_thread/ thread/df9b673bc8bad98a/ 6aedc1a34133908e?q=TC+microbiology+group:misc.fitness. weights+author:Bill+author:Roberts#6aedc1a34133908e
Now, does this matter ten years later? Not at all, in my opinion. We were all younger then, a bit more passionate and a bit less lacking in judgement. If placed in context these quotes were not especially inflammatory, especially considering the feces-slinging mosh pit that m.f.w. was back then.
Anthony Roberts obviously has an axe to grind, and anyone who has been around for a while knows this. You can draw your own conclusions about his motives, but he did not misquote Bill. Anthony generally has his facts correct and has over the years been a useful source of information, despite his “issues”.
As for the other parties involved: I have the utmost respect for Bill as a biochemistry guru, an educator and a human being. And I am obviously a regular user of Biotest products as you can see from the “Level 4” under my name at the left. So no axe to grind here, other than to set the facts straight.
Mods, I hope you’ll leave this post up. Everyone else, why don’t you let Bill speak for himself when he gets back from his honeymoon, eh?
Jake
It would be nice if it were the case that I were on a honeymoon, but that is a slightly mistaken account. Actually at the time of my last post I was leaving to be a groomsman at a friend’s wedding (not my own.) On getting back I was far behind on a lot of things – actually I was pretty far behind when leaving. I failed to get back into the groove of posting.
I would never have replied directly to AR’s effort – I’d gotten a PM once pointing it out to me so I did know about it – but it’s a different matter replying to the OP on it and anyone else generally wondering.
On the various details of subject matter, first the points that might even appear to have substance:
Both these are facts. Back in the day, I thought then and still think now that comparing HMB to Deca was ridiculous and was shameful marketing.
As to MAG-10, unlike products that Anthony “Roberts” (not his real name) has been involved with selling, MAG-10 indeed worked as well as I said. In fact we did a trial wherein non-T-mag, but rather Mesomorphosis steroid forum members who were experienced in steroid use for at least some number of cycles – I forget how much experience we required, but it was substantial – and usage levels of at least a gram per week, got to evaluate MAG-10 and state whatever they believed to be the case about it. Their conclusion was unanimously that MAG-10 for 8 weeks gave equal results as their typical steroid cycles.
So, comparing my view on the HMB marketing with my statement on MAG-10 doesn’t hold up.
As to criticisms I made at the time of T-mag and TC, there were several factors involved:
I didn’t know TC personally and lumped him right in with claims such as the “Feels like I’m on Deca.” This was not appropriate. Having since come to know TC, my statements regarding him were wrong. There can be no real question at this point that the true and ultimate source of all that was not him.
I did have objection to TRIBEX claims. I have never felt that any Tribulus product was any tremendous performance enhancer. I don’t recall specific claims that I objected to but vaguely recall that I thought it was being oversold.
While it’s shameful and something that generally I strive to avoid and have a high rate of successfully avoiding, it’s possible to fall into a trap of having a personal petty grievance color one’s remarks. I had received on offer to write for T-mag at a word rate far under what I was paid by other magazines and had, frankly, a bad attitude about it. People change with time: these days a startup (as T-mag was then) company offering me a rate well under what I was used to wouldn’t even begin to offend me, but then it annoyed me considerably and I allowed it to color commentary that I made.
As mentioned in some replies, the mfw environment was a highly vioious one. I remained at the top of the heap by instead of being my usual self, being a real “bite your head off” type, specializing in really brutal verbal beatdowns. Hence the apparent extremeness of the statements. Actually that was a routine tone used at the time – just so as to have accurate context. Doesn’t mean I was right to do it, but everyone that I criticized back then, and I criticized a lot of people – got the hammer just as over-the-top hard.
There is no substantive value to the Anthony “Roberts” post. Who it really speaks about, I think, is him. The 10 years or more that has passed has seen improvements in my life and personality: but apparently not so in his case.
Jumpin Jesus! Roberto is back! How one gets a Bill from an Anthony is beyond me. This thread seem like quite a stew. Had a little MaddyD, October, BBB, TC and someone even mentioned Rainjack cracks open a Old English and pours some on the floor
Thanks for replying and clearing things up Bill.
Interesting Bill, thanks.
I read this AR blog a while back from BB.com and figured something must have changed to have you working here.
BTW- I know you’re behind, but any chance you found what you were looking for 
?
Sure thing!
If nothing else, it’s a good practical example for all the young whippersnappers out there: intemperate foolishness put onto the Internet will remain there forever!
And there will always, sooner or later, be some personality type that though you have had no interactions with them at all, and have never even mentioned their name, will for some reason take delight in trying to cause you problems with it.
Actually I think it’s a credit to Tim, TC, and Biotest that they hired me anyway and have never for a moment given me any grief about it. Not everyone will be so lucky with potential employers regarding their – if they have any – foolish remarks.
So actually the story is a good practical exmaple of sorts.
Hmm well some positive came out of this whole thread.
we all learned a lesson (kinda like Sesame Street on well steroids)
we have Bill Roberts posting again
Thanks!
And by the way, re-visiting the old (as in, 10 years) question of my having viewed TRIBEX as being over-claimed, there’s some added perspective I now have that is interesting to me.
Now on the one hand, I still don’t think any Tribulus product is a tremendous athletic performance enhancer. (And Biotest really doesn’t market it that way either.)
However over the years I’ve seen so many times where Tim calls me up to tell me about this or that latest thing, which often has nothing to do with any product being marketed or that ever will be marketed, but information that he is just very enthused about. It will typically be something like, some particular elite athletes have found that some herb you’d never expect to do anything, when used in a particular way has given such-and-such definite benefit to them, and work already done or work in progress to identify what actives are really involved. Many times, by the way, it is the case that the compound that an herb is standardized for is NOT the true active, or not the most important one.
When Tim finds that a different method of isolation yields more of other compounds (besides the one everyone else is looking for) and this gives benefit or actually is far and away the main benefit, he’s like a kid on Christmas morning.
The enthusiasm absolutely is genuine.
So while in a cynical view I then ought the enthusiasm then being put out over the importance of the Tribulus being harvested at the correct time and from only these particular places and so forth was presumably marketing BS – of which the nutritional suppplement industry in general has no shortage – I now know that nope, this was real enthusiasm, and was based on real facts.
By the way, on that general subject – industry-standard isolation not necessarily yielding the most of the most useful actives – Tim did recently discover something new, extremely interesting, anhd quite important that is definitely making it it a much-used Biotest product. And yeah, he was enthused
Interesting stuff, Bill - thanks for sharing.
Are you allowed give us a peak of what you’re working on currently? I know you did so about a year back, anything new?
Well, I wouldn’t know how to say more closely without putting out more than I should, but at the moment, something that isn’t a SERM or aromatase inhibitor or any currently-used-in-bodybuilding pharmacological class, but useful towards a general purpose that is in common.
Interesting.
We’ll just wait and see then.
Bill, so what is your final take on the form of TRIBEX being sold right now? I know you don’t think much of it as a relevant performance enhancer but, what do you think of it as a Testosterone booster/ general health supplement?
I haven’t looked into any data on testosterone increase. I really haven’t been involved in the product at all, except for one thing – maybe 8 years ago or so, another person at Biotest had the idea of combining Vitex agnus castii extract with TRIBEX for better efficacy.
I did try an informal in-house trial on that and as my part in it, found then-TRIBEX, when combined with Solaray Vitex, to be a reasonable PCT in the context of 2 week cycles: definitely better than no PCT as well as being definitely better than then-TRIBEX alone, and good enough that I didn’t notice the difference relative to Clomid, other than not getting the increase in ejaculatory volume that Clomid can give. I did some substantial number of back-to-back cycles: a single cycle would be hard to tell. I did them as either 2 on / 2 off or 2 on / 1 off, not sure at this point. I tend to think the latter, though.
Now, 2 week cycles yield a much less difficult state of inhibition than longer cycles, so I never took that and suggested that this would be good for longer cycles, but it was suggestive of the Vitex addition being a good thing.
For a while TRIBEX then included Vitex as an ingredient.
By this time, it is now Alpha Male that combines Tribulus with Vitex, as well as other ingredients, while TRIBEX is now again Tribulus-only, though I understand, considerably improved in that regard.
I can’t take Alpha Male because I am one of the small percent (don’t know how many) that does not do well with Eurycoma longifolia. It makes me irritable to a degree that is beyond excessive. Just out of the question.
If not among those that can’t tolerate Eurycoma longifolia, I suppose that Alpha Male is the better product.
In any case the question is as simple as whether a given person feels better and has the impression that they perform better (whether in the gym or any other regard) on TRIBEX. It’s always a good idea to have periods of not using a product, and then reintroducing it after some period of time, to get reality checks on any impression that something works.
If it does work for the given person in a way they like, and there are many that feel that it does, then great.
However, if say someone posts that they aren’t making any progress in the gym, for example, my reply isn’t going to be “Well you ought to try some TRIBEX.” It isn’t the solution for enhanced athletic performance in most cases.
As for pro-sexual effects, I have no idea. I have no basis to come to any conclusion what others think on it, and it does nothing for me.