Civil Rights for Gays, Women, Blacks

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:

There is a variety of reasons why a guy would like a woman, mostly because I don’t know that is how all men are born.

So they’re born to like women. But they can’t be born to like men. That doesn’t make any sense.

Unless, in your infinite wisdom, you left some commas out of that sentence and you mean something else.

Second, specifics and abnormalities come from external factors not internal. The guy does choose it on both accounts.

Prove it.

We are born and raised to like the opposite sex. It is only when something traumatizing or a man decides to become rebellious have I seen this happen.

Well just go look at all the studies on how people are not born gay. There is your proof.[/quote]

I had two friends who were lesbian. I asked them why they were lesbian.
One of them said it was because she had a bad experience with a guy.

The other one actually hated men and told me when i asked her that they were scum, blablabla.
In both cases they had become lesbians because of bad experiences concerning men.

There might be a gay gene but it doesn’t mean it’s not a choice. Just like some people are more likely to be alcoholic because of genetics does not mean they will be alcoholics.

82

[quote]TKDCadet04 wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
You’re not born gay, so how can you have ‘Civil Rights’ for something you made a choice about. That is like giving murders ‘Civil Rights’ to treat them extra special and put into legislation things that common society does not want them to have.

Because I choose to be descriminated against? Choose to not have the same legal rights if my partner (whenever I do happen to find that special someone) dies? Choose to worry about being ambushed when leaving a leaving gay bar (all of the gay clubs in Richmond have cops posted outside between midnight and 2:30am so no one gets jumped after closing)? Right.

I live my life as a proud homosexual, I have accepted who I am, and am lucky enough to have friends and family that support me (to include a very devout southern baptist sister and her husband). I dream of having the loving husband, the 3 kids and a dog, and the white picket fence, and hopefully having the exact same rights as every straight person in this country.[/quote]

Haha, this argument huh? Nice try but I do not see how other’s people actions against you just makes your choices not a choice all of a sudden. I choose to be a Catholic, I am discriminated for that. I am an Irishman and I am discriminated for that, however the latter I have nothing to do with, the former is a personal choice.

Just because you are worried about being beaten up by someone that has lower than average brain wave length, still does not make it not a choice for you on your part. Of course, you have people that support you. I am for the support of people being happy, I am just more against being forced to pay for something and my state legislation being screwed with.

Now, I know it’s coming up (hopefully), I do not agree with crimes against gay people for the reason of them being gay. I just do not want my state to give gay people the right to marry.

[quote]Unless you have lived it, you will never know how much of a choice this wasn’t. It’s a part of me, just like my eyes are blue and my hair is brown. Just like with those, I could choose to cover it up and live my life as a blonde haired, brown eyed straight man, it wouldn’t be who I was born to be and would just be lieing to myself.

I pride myself on living a very honest life, I vowed once I came out that I would never have to lie about any part of my life to anyone for their acceptance, and until I was completely honest to myself as well as to others about how I felt and towards whom, I was in a state of constant inner turmoil. Now I live with a sense of inner peace that I never dreamed possible.[/quote]

That is fine you’re ‘gay,’ just like I am Catholic and that is what I agree with, I made a choice about it. You made a choice, it is your actions, and last time I checked unless you had turrets most actions are voluntary.

83

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:

There is a variety of reasons why a guy would like a woman, mostly because I don’t know that is how all men are born.

So they’re born to like women. But they can’t be born to like men. That doesn’t make any sense.

Unless, in your infinite wisdom, you left some commas out of that sentence and you mean something else.

Second, specifics and abnormalities come from external factors not internal. The guy does choose it on both accounts.

Prove it.

We are born and raised to like the opposite sex. It is only when something traumatizing or a man decides to become rebellious have I seen this happen.

Well just go look at all the studies on how people are not born gay. There is your proof.[/quote]

He means link peer reviewed studies not from religious websites.

84

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:

There is a variety of reasons why a guy would like a woman, mostly because I don’t know that is how all men are born.

So they’re born to like women. But they can’t be born to like men. That doesn’t make any sense.

Unless, in your infinite wisdom, you left some commas out of that sentence and you mean something else.

Second, specifics and abnormalities come from external factors not internal. The guy does choose it on both accounts.

Prove it.

We are born and raised to like the opposite sex. It is only when something traumatizing or a man decides to become rebellious have I seen this happen.

Well just go look at all the studies on how people are not born gay. There is your proof.

He means link peer reviewed studies not from religious websites.[/quote]

Well, I have seen dozens of peer reviewed studies and they all get dismissed on here because they are not the organization that proves your point at the moment. So, I push all the studies and you can look at them on different posts. I am not going to waste my time putting one up because the abbreviation does not suit you.

85

Keep in mind that this is the Internet and not even one gay man will ever admit that the following has any merit. However, I think that the environmental factors are indeed strong for homosexuality.

Dominant mothers and gay sons
September 18, 2002 Times 2 - features

Despite the huge publicity accorded to them, studies purporting to prove that male homosexuality is caused by genes or brain abnormalities have turned out to be largely groundless.

Very recently published studies have found little or no genetic effect and there is a large body of evidence to suggest that homosexuality has a significant environmental component.

Gay men are twice as likely as heterosexuals to come from a distinctive family constellation, half painting the following picture of their boyhood: the mother is the center of his attention and they are unusually close; she sees rough-and-tumble play as dangerous, and is excessively anxious about his health and safety; this inhibits his aggression, and he is clinging and anxious at being separated from her;

in early adolescence she may be flirtatious with him, and is a dominant, powerful woman who is uncomfortable with masculinity â?? emasculating even; she takes more family decisions than the father, and is the stronger personality; the father is rejecting or withdrawn or weak or absent â?? emotionally, literally or a combination of these â?? and the marital relationship is disharmonious.

Gay men tend to have had negative relationships with their fathers, half of them (compared with a quarter of heterosexuals) feeling anger, resentment and fear towards fathers whom they deem cold, hostile, detached or submissive.

They do not see their fathers as role models.

More than 70 per cent feel dissimilar to them while growing up (against a third of heterosexuals) and more similar to their mother. About half feel that their mothers did not want them to be like their fathers, and more than two thirds feel that their mothers dominated their fathers.

86

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

We are born and raised to like the opposite sex. It is only when something traumatizing or a man decides to become rebellious have I seen this happen.
[/quote]

Somehow, I get the strange feeling that you’ve never seen it happen and don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.

It’s a strong feeling.

87

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
tom63 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
forlife wrote:

Nonetheless, the idea that a crime’s motivation can warrant extra prosecution is hard to defend, especially when such “hate” oriented crimes are not systematically under prosecuted in the first place.

I see what you’re saying, but how would you justify, for example, the extra prosecution associated with a crime’s motivation when it comes to manslaughter vs. murder?

You can prove this. If a guy buys a gun and it’s on record, then he’s seen surveilling someone’s house from a car incessantly, and then two days later he blows the guy away, you can say that there’s intent there.

However, if I beat the crap out of you outside a bar, it might be because you’re a homo, it might be because you’re irritating and loud, it might be because I’m drunk. Either way, good luck proving it.

Hate crimes are one of the most ridiculous things that this fuckin country ever came up with.

Exactly, and you’ll never seen a hate crime committed on a white male. I’ve challenged people to show me ten cases of hate crimes against a white male that have even been started, not necessarily ending in conviction.

You could find them if you were looking for them, Tom.

The problem you guys are having is looking only one-dimensional (which is no surprise). While you may not admit it, you are looking for crimes committed by black males against white, Protestant, Heterosexual, able-bodied males that have been considered “hate” crimes.

There are case after case of prosecuted and convicted hate crimes against white Jewish males; white homosexual males; white “GOTH” males/those considered “different” by the attacker.

The list goes on and on.

I have agreed that adding “hate” to a crime gets us into Constitutional problems, and personally I don’t like the designation.

But please don’t make this into another “persecuted White Male” thing.

(Of course, that may be too late…)

Mufasa

[/quote]

Not a persecuted white guy thing, just it is not pursued. I can go into a local case right now where they are pushing for a hate crime. And the they are the local complaining Hispanic organizations. Knowing the particulars is a funny thing. And it doesn’t seem to matter tot he it’s all about race crowd.

88

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:

We are born and raised to like the opposite sex. It is only when something traumatizing or a man decides to become rebellious have I seen this happen.

Somehow, I get the strange feeling that you’ve never seen it happen and don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.

It’s a strong feeling.[/quote]

Well you strange feeling must be for man ass, because you’re wrong. I have seen in person, people’s upbringing and such it is usually something external.

Now, I do not know all gay people, but the gay people I do know say the reason is external. The one’s that do not admit it I have seen external things that are common in the lives of homosexuals.

89

Using my thing of people are people , I see a disproportionate amount of black on white crime compared to white on black according to all crime statistics. But after trying multiple google searches using different phrases I could not find a specific case successfully prosecuted against a minority or minorities for a hate crime.

I did find according to FBI crime stats 4x more hate crimes against black as opposed to whites. I have a hard time trusting this data since the black on white crime is so much higher by numbers and even higher by % of the population. so no black guy ever yells racial slurs while mugging some guy?

but, I do agree the concept of hate crimes is stupid. Robbing, raping, murder is bad enough. I don’t care about the why, just the act.

90

tom63 wrote:

“… I do agree the concept of hate crimes is stupid. Robbing, raping, murder is bad enough. I don’t care about the why, just the act…”

Absolutely agree.

Mufasa

91

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
OBoile wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
You’re not born gay,

How exactly do you know this?

It’s a choice. I guess if you are hyper masculine and have an over whelming urge to dominate males or you are so submissive you wish to be dominated by all males than I guess you’re born with the ghey.[/quote]

How exactly do you know this?

92

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Keep in mind that this is the Internet and not even one gay man will ever admit that the following has any merit. However, I think that the environmental factors are indeed strong for homosexuality.

Dominant mothers and gay sons
September 18, 2002 Times 2 - features

Despite the huge publicity accorded to them, studies purporting to prove that male homosexuality is caused by genes or brain abnormalities have turned out to be largely groundless.

Very recently published studies have found little or no genetic effect and there is a large body of evidence to suggest that homosexuality has a significant environmental component.

Gay men are twice as likely as heterosexuals to come from a distinctive family constellation, half painting the following picture of their boyhood: the mother is the center of his attention and they are unusually close; she sees rough-and-tumble play as dangerous, and is excessively anxious about his health and safety; this inhibits his aggression, and he is clinging and anxious at being separated from her;

in early adolescence she may be flirtatious with him, and is a dominant, powerful woman who is uncomfortable with masculinity â?? emasculating even; she takes more family decisions than the father, and is the stronger personality; the father is rejecting or withdrawn or weak or absent â?? emotionally, literally or a combination of these â?? and the marital relationship is disharmonious.

Gay men tend to have had negative relationships with their fathers, half of them (compared with a quarter of heterosexuals) feeling anger, resentment and fear towards fathers whom they deem cold, hostile, detached or submissive.

They do not see their fathers as role models.

More than 70 per cent feel dissimilar to them while growing up (against a third of heterosexuals) and more similar to their mother. About half feel that their mothers did not want them to be like their fathers, and more than two thirds feel that their mothers dominated their fathers.
[/quote]

I’m a bit confused as to where that’s from. Times 2?

Also, I was close to my mother (until a few years ago, just kinda drifted apart) and hated (still do) my dad. Last paragraph is me to a letter.

I also like pussy.

93

[quote]Makavali wrote:

I’m a bit confused as to where that’s from. Times 2?

Also, I was close to my mother (until a few years ago, just kinda drifted apart) and hated (still do) my dad. Last paragraph is me to a letter.

I also like pussy.[/quote]

This explains your ignorance, you cannot comprehend what you read.

94

Mak—The extended excerpt was from the book “They F— You Up: How to Survive Family Life” by Oliver James. I don’t know much about the author (read: anything), but he has another book on socio-economic causes of rising juvenile violence. A quick google brought his name out as a clinical psychologist.

The first 140 pages of the book (or close to it) is available for reading on google books I guess, since I was taken there upon searching.

The “Despite huge publicity…largely groundless.” opening sentence in the book was referencing a study that I can’t find, since the free version of the book on google didn’t include the end of that chapter where the footnotes are and I’m not about to waste my time searching for an extended period. I imagine it’s a scholarly study though, as it seemed the vast majority of his footnotes were likely to reference specific scholarly studies.

95

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Mak—The extended excerpt was from the book “They F— You Up: How to Survive Family Life” by Oliver James. I don’t know much about the author (read: anything), but he has another book on socio-economic causes of rising juvenile violence. A quick google brought his name out as a clinical psychologist.

The first 140 pages of the book (or close to it) is available for reading on google books I guess, since I was taken there upon searching.

The “Despite huge publicity…largely groundless.” opening sentence in the book was referencing a study that I can’t find, since the free version of the book on google didn’t include the end of that chapter where the footnotes are and I’m not about to waste my time searching for an extended period. I imagine it’s a scholarly study though, as it seemed the vast majority of his footnotes were likely to reference specific scholarly studies.

[/quote]

Cheers mate.

96

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
This explains your ignorance, you cannot comprehend what you read.[/quote]

You’re just a retard who can’t remember what was posted a page ago, gtfo.

97

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Being gay substitutes something else for the desire to procreate, the main reason for sex. Since procreation means ‘life’ then the premise of non-procreation must be ‘death’.
[/quote]

So straight couples who choose not to have children, and still have sex, have a death wish too? WTF?

98

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
We are born and raised to like the opposite sex. It is only when something traumatizing or a man decides to become rebellious have I seen this happen.

Well just go look at all the studies on how people are not born gay. There is your proof.[/quote]

How do you explain the twin studies?

99

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I choose to be a Catholic, I am discriminated for that.[/quote]

Oh really? How would you like it if the state made it illegal for you to marry because you chose to be a Catholic?

100

[quote]forlife wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Being gay substitutes something else for the desire to procreate, the main reason for sex. Since procreation means ‘life’ then the premise of non-procreation must be ‘death’.

So straight couples who choose not to have children, and still have sex, have a death wish too? WTF?[/quote]

It is nonsense anyway, because human sexual relation ships not only serve reproductive purposes.