Civil Rights for Gays, Women, Blacks

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
182

[quote]Dustin wrote:

And as for my argument, it has been consistent throughout this thread.

  1. How does/will gay marriage effect you?

No one has given a reasonable answer and they won’t be able to because gay marriage won’t effect them.

  1. The individual states have no right to deny consenting adults marriage.

Under this system we live in, I understand the mind of the mob must be altered so they can vote to change the laws within the states. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s still discrimination.
[/quote]

Gay marriage has been legal in Canada for several years now. The sky has not fallen. Straight people’s marriages have not been destroyed. No one feels like their marriage has been cheapened.

The only result is that some gay people now feel more accepted.

Terrible, I know… but what can you do?

183

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Dustin wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
Hey Dustin…this is one of the biggest Internet ass kickings that I’ve ever had the pleasure of reading. You’ve been beaten on every single point!

Do me a favor Dusty…respond to TB and continue to entertain me.

Oh…and thanks for the many laughs that you’ve already given me.

Coming from anyone else that would be a compliment, but from you, not so much.

Since you decided to emerge from under your pretty rock, why don’t you answer the same question I posed to Brother Chris and Thunderbolt.

How will gay marriage effect you and your life?

Being the troll you are, living in isolation under your rock, it shouldn’t effect you at all.

That’s why I never understood why anyone cares about this. It will not affect anyone outside of the people getting married. It truly is a “victimless” issue.
[/quote]

Exactly. It makes absolutely no difference to me whether gay people want to call themselves married, in a civil union or some entirely new made up word.

So why not have them choose the one that makes them the most happy?

I also don’t get why religious people get upset that “their word” is being stolen. I’m pretty sure “marriage” is different in latin, or hebrew, or sanskrit or whatever language was spoken back in the day.

185

[quote]super saiyan wrote:
Many things we do have an effect on others whether we realize it or not. The Family Research Council has done a good job of explaining the effects of same-sex marriage on society. Here’s a link:

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IF03H01&f=PG03I03[/quote]

Clearly not biased at all.

187

[quote]OBoile wrote:
super saiyan wrote:
Many things we do have an effect on others whether we realize it or not. The Family Research Council has done a good job of explaining the effects of same-sex marriage on society. Here’s a link:

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IF03H01&f=PG03I03

Clearly not biased at all.[/quote]

Yes, just like the pro-gay marriage people on this thread are biased. What’s your point? Are you saying the fact that the FRC is against gay marriage automatically makes their arguments false? Why don’t you try attacking the points they make rather than the organization?

189

[quote]super saiyan wrote:
OBoile wrote:
super saiyan wrote:
Many things we do have an effect on others whether we realize it or not. The Family Research Council has done a good job of explaining the effects of same-sex marriage on society. Here’s a link:

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IF03H01&f=PG03I03

Clearly not biased at all.

Yes, just like the pro-gay marriage people on this thread are biased. What’s your point? Are you saying the fact that the FRC is against gay marriage automatically makes their arguments false? Why don’t you try attacking the points they make rather than the organization?[/quote]

Read my post from 12:28 pm. Pretty much refutes all of their points in a couple of sentances.

190

[quote]forlife wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
I really don’t know or care if their God is the same as my God. But at that time, there is no question that religion played a huge part in the development of our government. The Pledge of Allegiance has God in it. Not sure if this still happens, but if you went to court and were put on the stand, you had to swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God. Do you really think it would be so easy to remove the idea of a God within our political structure when it is at the very core of it to start with?

My point is, is that that was the influence at that time. I personally don’t care if people’s God is the same as mine or not. I respect other religions as long as they don’t try to harm other people.

I can understand respecting other religions, but that is different from making laws based on a particular religion. What is your understanding of separation of church and state, and the reasons behind it?

On the Pledge of Allegiance, the words “Under God” were not part of the original Pledge. They were added by Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1954. In the cases where “So Help Me God” is included in an oath, the officer has the option to omit these words as an “affirmation” rather than an “oath”.[/quote]

I like the idea that there is a higher standard to answer to, and not just some fabricated paper with writing on it.

I was raised to be a God fearing man ForLife, the more that God has been removed from government, the shittier things have gotten from my perspective. The fear and respect of the Lord is what keeps me in check.

191

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
super saiyan wrote:
OBoile wrote:
super saiyan wrote:
Many things we do have an effect on others whether we realize it or not. The Family Research Council has done a good job of explaining the effects of same-sex marriage on society. Here’s a link:

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IF03H01&f=PG03I03

Clearly not biased at all.

Yes, just like the pro-gay marriage people on this thread are biased. What’s your point? Are you saying the fact that the FRC is against gay marriage automatically makes their arguments false? Why don’t you try attacking the points they make rather than the organization?

Because the organization’s alignment will completely color whatever they tell you?

And how the fuck am I biased? To be honest, I don’t care whether gays can marry or not- it doesn’t affect me at all, and it never will.

And really, that’s the main argument I have for it- it’ll never affect me. What the fuck do I care if they get married? Who’s it hurt?

I have never seen a coherent argument against it that didn’t involve magic books and space beings.[/quote]

Exactly! And furthermore, as proof, I live in a country where gay marriage is legal and despite what all the right-wing people said would happen, I have not been affected at all.

192

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I like the idea that there is a higher standard to answer to, and not just some fabricated paper with writing on it.

I was raised to be a God fearing man ForLife, the more that God has been removed from government, the shittier things have gotten from my perspective. The fear and respect of the Lord is what keeps me in check.
[/quote]

Do you think people have to fear a “god” in order to live moral lives? I’ve never understood that mentality. Why not live your values for their own sake, rather than out of fear of hellfire or desire for eternal rewards?

My point is that your idea of “god” is very different from the ideas millions of other people have about “god”, and creating legislation based on any particular idea of “god” is going to hurt society more than help it. How would you like it if someone with a very different concept of “god” created civil laws based on that concept, which directly contradicted your own beliefs? That is a real danger, and is why we have separation of church and state in the first place.

193

[quote]forlife wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
I like the idea that there is a higher standard to answer to, and not just some fabricated paper with writing on it.

I was raised to be a God fearing man ForLife, the more that God has been removed from government, the shittier things have gotten from my perspective. The fear and respect of the Lord is what keeps me in check.

Do you think people have to fear a “god” in order to live moral lives? I’ve never understood that mentality. Why not live your values for their own sake, rather than out of fear of hellfire or desire for eternal rewards?

My point is that your idea of “god” is very different from the ideas millions of other people have about “god”, and creating legislation based on any particular idea of “god” is going to hurt society more than help it. How would you like it if someone with a very different concept of “god” created civil laws based on that concept, which directly contradicted your own beliefs? That is a real danger, and is why we have separation of church and state in the first place.[/quote]

Why do you feel that your life is not moral? Not that other people think it isn’t moral, but why do YOU feel it isn’t moral?

194

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Dustin wrote:
Mick28 wrote:

I’ve answered this question a multitude of times and have no desire to engage you on this level…You’re an ass clown junior. Now as to your debate with TB are you going to answer his latest response or are you going to be smart and let it go?

Let’s all find out if little Dusty has enough intelligence to know when he’s beaten?

That is too bad. I’m sure your answer was rational and well thought out. My loss I guess.

And I did answer thunderbolt at the end of page 7.

In all seriousness Mick, I have faith in you. One day, you will progress to the point that you can move out from under your rock and move under a bridge like all other trolls.

Rocks, bridges…trolls…yea…nice. You’ve got all the Internet talk down pat there junior. It’s a dam shame none of it helped you when TB took you apart piece by piece.

Like I said I’ll be watching and of course laughing…at you.

[/quote]

I have asked numerous board members how gay marriage will effect their life. None, not even thunderbolt, who you apparently have man-crush on, can give an answer. That has been my argument from the beginning.

OBoile, Fighting Irish, Mak, and host of others “get it”. Why are you lagging behind?

195

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Why do you feel that your life is not moral? Not that other people think it isn’t moral, but why do YOU feel it isn’t moral?[/quote]

Where did you get in what I wrote that I feel my life isn’t moral? WTF?

What I said was that you don’t have to believe in [insert god X here] in order to live true to your values. How about showing love for others because you value love, rather than because your god is going to damn you if you don’t?

196

[quote]forlife wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
I like the idea that there is a higher standard to answer to, and not just some fabricated paper with writing on it.

I was raised to be a God fearing man ForLife, the more that God has been removed from government, the shittier things have gotten from my perspective. The fear and respect of the Lord is what keeps me in check.

Do you think people have to fear a “god” in order to live moral lives? I’ve never understood that mentality. Why not live your values for their own sake, rather than out of fear of hellfire or desire for eternal rewards?

My point is that your idea of “god” is very different from the ideas millions of other people have about “god”, and creating legislation based on any particular idea of “god” is going to hurt society more than help it. How would you like it if someone with a very different concept of “god” created civil laws based on that concept, which directly contradicted your own beliefs? That is a real danger, and is why we have separation of church and state in the first place.[/quote]

Look at your first sentence. Those are the words you chose to use. If you feel that being gay is true to your nature and being true to your values, then why would YOU say this? Why do you feel the need to justify being gay isn’t being moral, I never insinuated or even said that. You think as you do, and other think as they do, why do you feel the need to change people’s opinions with this? Is anyone telling you to be straight?

Do you also realize that the large majority of religion in the US is Christian/Catholic based? Do you think your thoughts are going to change their minds?

Your version of love is different than mine. I give courtesy and respect to those who give it to me, even if I disagree with them, but I don’t love them nor do they love me. The same way I don’t tell you what to do, you should not tell me either. THAT is your love, being able to live how you want.

197

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Look at your first sentence.[/quote]

Ok.

Do you think people have to fear a “god” in order to live moral lives?

I said it because I meant it. What is so hard to understand about people not needing to believe in a supernatural being in order to live moral lives?

Why do you think it is necessary to think your god is going to damn you, in order to live true to your values? Would you start murdering and robbing people if you knew with 100% certainty that your god didn’t exist?

Do you not understand what a childish mindset that is? Children live very black and white, rules based lives because that is their level of maturity. Eventually, most of them learn to recognize the value of the behavior itself, apart from any parental threats or promises. That is part of being an adult.

I have no idea what you’re even talking about here. I never said anything about being gay, nor did I say that being gay was or wasn’t moral. I couldn’t care less what you think about the morality of sexual orientation.

My point is that you don’t have the right to create civil laws legislating your belief on others, unless you are willing to let others with very different belief systems legislate their beliefs on you. That is why we have a separation of church and state.

When you vote for laws that blatantly discriminate against me because of my sexual orientation, you tell me what I can and cannot do. As the saying goes, your right to swing your fist ends where the other man’s nose begins.

198

[quote]OBoile wrote:
super saiyan wrote:
OBoile wrote:
super saiyan wrote:
Many things we do have an effect on others whether we realize it or not. The Family Research Council has done a good job of explaining the effects of same-sex marriage on society. Here’s a link:

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IF03H01&f=PG03I03

Clearly not biased at all.

Yes, just like the pro-gay marriage people on this thread are biased. What’s your point? Are you saying the fact that the FRC is against gay marriage automatically makes their arguments false? Why don’t you try attacking the points they make rather than the organization?

Read my post from 12:28 pm. Pretty much refutes all of their points in a couple of sentances.[/quote]

It didn’t refute anything from the link I posted. I doubt you even read the whole thing.

199

[quote]forlife wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Look at your first sentence.

Ok.

Do you think people have to fear a “god” in order to live moral lives?

I said it because I meant it. What is so hard to understand about people not needing to believe in a supernatural being in order to live moral lives?

Why do you think it is necessary to think your god is going to damn you, in order to live true to your values? Would you start murdering and robbing people if you knew with 100% certainty that your god didn’t exist?

Do you not understand what a childish mindset that is? Children live very black and white, rules based lives because that is their level of maturity. Eventually, most of them learn to recognize the value of the behavior itself, apart from any parental threats or promises. That is part of being an adult.

Why do you feel the need to justify being gay isn’t being moral, I never insinuated or even said that. You think as you do, and other think as they do, why do you feel the need to change people’s opinions with this? Is anyone telling you to be straight?

I have no idea what you’re even talking about here. I never said anything about being gay, nor did I say that being gay was or wasn’t moral. I couldn’t care less what you think about the morality of sexual orientation.

My point is that you don’t have the right to create civil laws legislating your belief on others, unless you are willing to let others with very different belief systems legislate their beliefs on you. That is why we have a separation of church and state.

The same way I don’t tell you what to do, you should not tell me either.

When you vote for laws that blatantly discriminate against me because of my sexual orientation, you tell me what I can and cannot do. As the saying goes, your right to swing your fist ends where the other man’s nose begins.[/quote]

Because in another thread, you mentioned that there is no such thing as gay, only people AFFLICTED with same sex attraction. If you feel that this is an affliction, then maybe it isn’t as moral as you might like it to be? Remember these are your words, and I will sure as fuck show you where you said this.

200

In a nutshell, the link you posted argued that gays are incapable of being monogamous, so the benefits of marriage don’t apply to them.

Of course, it also notes that 25% of straight men cheat on their wives, but somehow that doesn’t invalidate the benefits of straight marriage.

If it comes down to monogamy, I’m assuming you support gay marriage for people that actually are monogamous, like my partner and me?

201

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Because in another thread, you mentioned that there is no such thing as gay, only people AFFLICTED with same sex attraction. [/quote]

Lol, you didn’t understand that I was being sarcastic? I was referring to the religions, like my own former religion, that refer to homosexuality as SSA (Same Sex Attraction).

Hilarious.

202

But of course, because someone could tell you were joking. And you wonder why people don’t take you seriously. I’m out.