China/US Relations

[quote]orion wrote:

Gargl…

Austria began the war because Serbs murdered the crown prince.

[/quote]

Actually;

Kaiser Wilhelm II:

'I cannot imagine the old gentleman in Schonbrunn(Franz Josef) will go to war, and certainly not if it is a war over Archduke Franz Ferdinand."

…and so the Austrian ambassador is invited to lunch, and reports back to Franz Josef:

‘He (said he) quite understood (your Majesty’s) well-known love of peace…(and that you would) find it hard to march into Serbia (but) he would deplore our not taking advantage of the present moment, which is so favourable to us.’

Try to get a copy of ‘The Fall of Eagles by C.L. Sulzberger’ if you’re interested. Best work I’ve read on how the Great War actually started and why. Churchill’s The World Crisis is good too but that’s from an English perspective.

Only a small part of the story.

Not a funny matter.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Which was of course reason enough to starve a few hundred thousand civilians.

Alrighty then…

Did you enjoy our reaction to this?

[/quote]

Not a funny matter.[/quote]

No?

Well, there seems to be a thing you Anglo Saxons do not quite get about us.

When we go to war, we go to war.

Meaning, we are mean, unfair, brutish, assholish like you would not believe and all around savages.

Because, that is war, the illusions that you harbor are childish.

Kicking footballs over our lines, trying to chase them?

Well, say hello and goodbye to our new machine gun.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Which was of course reason enough to starve a few hundred thousand civilians.

Alrighty then…

Did you enjoy our reaction to this?

[/quote]

Not a funny matter.[/quote]

No?

Well, there seems to be a thing you Anglo Saxons do not quite get about us.

When we go to war, we go to war.

Meaning, we are mean, unfair, brutish, assholish like you would not believe and all around savages.

Because, that is war, the illusions that you harbor are childish.

Kicking footballs over our lines, trying to chase them?

Well, say hello and goodbye to our new machine gun.

[/quote]

Oh, I believe the Anglo-Saxons understand that perfectly. The Slavs as well.

Because it is understood so well you’ve had your asses thoroughly kicked twice now.[/quote]

Yes, by the Russians.

But, unless we invade them, we should be fine.

[quote]orion wrote:

No?

Well, there seems to be a thing you Anglo Saxons do not quite get about us.

When we go to war, we go to war.

[/quote]

Germany’s war led to the fall of her own dynasty, that of her ally Austria’s and that of Russia’s. It led to the rise of the greatest menaces of the 20th century: Nazism and Communism.

Not true. The vast majority of Germans before the Nazi era were decent people(as they are today.) And the Yids were more German than the Germans. German nationalism was perverted by militantism at first;

‘War is an element of the world order established by God. It fosters the noblest virtues of man; courage, self-denial, obedience to duty and the spirit of sacrifice; the soldier gives his life. Without war the world would stagnate and sink into materialism.’ - Helmuth von Moltke(von Moltke the elder - author of the Schlieffen plan.)

And later by anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism had seen a resurgence in Germany, Austria and France from the 1880’s. Vienna was particularly anti-Semitic. Hitler played on this and on German bitterness from the defeat and Versailles treaty.

Whatever dude.

The Bois-Carre British Cemetery in Thelus - a small village North of Arras. My father’s father’s father is buried here - Infantry, 2nd Battalion Canadian Expeditionary Force(Eastern Ontario Regiment.) He was killed a few weeks after Vimy Ridge at the Battle of Arleux when my grandfather was 3-years-old.

Just out of interest, note the Jewish headstone.

I don’t know much about the politics, but I do know that Chinese leadership has always had far less respect for human life than American. That doesn’t mean we’re angels; it just means they are far worse. Leaders have regularly stated that their own citizen’s deaths don’t matter, as there are so many more to replace them. No president of ours would dare say that publicly.

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

No?

Well, there seems to be a thing you Anglo Saxons do not quite get about us.

When we go to war, we go to war.

Meaning, we are mean, unfair, brutish, assholish like you would not believe and all around savages.

Because, that is war, the illusions that you harbor are childish.

Kicking footballs over our lines, trying to chase them?

Well, say hello and goodbye to our new machine gun.
[/quote]

So, we kicked your ass twice, and that was when we weren’t even serious about it?

You guys are pretty pathetic.[/quote]

Depends on who “we” is and what “kicked your ass” is.

If you mean that you defeated a worn out army twice due to vastly superior resources, yes.

Thank God for Russias sacrifices and the British navy.

Also, the whole ass kicking deal is highly questionable when it comes to WWI.

[quote]ironcross wrote:
I don’t know much about the politics, but I do know that Chinese leadership has always had far less respect for human life than American. That doesn’t mean we’re angels; it just means they are far worse. Leaders have regularly stated that their own citizen’s deaths don’t matter, as there are so many more to replace them. No president of ours would dare say that publicly.[/quote]

Well, maybe the Chinese leadership has more respect for peoples intelligence.

I think the amount of respect regarding human life is roughly the same.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

No?

Well, there seems to be a thing you Anglo Saxons do not quite get about us.

When we go to war, we go to war.

[/quote]

Germany’s war led to the fall of her own dynasty, that of her ally Austria’s and that of Russia’s. It led to the rise of the greatest menaces of the 20th century: Nazism and Communism.

Not true. The vast majority of Germans before the Nazi era were decent people(as they are today.) And the Yids were more German than the Germans. German nationalism was perverted by militantism at first;

‘War is an element of the world order established by God. It fosters the noblest virtues of man; courage, self-denial, obedience to duty and the spirit of sacrifice; the soldier gives his life. Without war the world would stagnate and sink into materialism.’ - Helmuth von Moltke(von Moltke the elder - author of the Schlieffen plan.)

And later by anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism had seen a resurgence in Germany, Austria and France from the 1880’s. Vienna was particularly anti-Semitic. Hitler played on this and on German bitterness from the defeat and Versailles treaty.

Whatever dude.[/quote]

An important factor in the rise of anti-semitism in Germany and Austria was the Czar’s pogroms in Russia. The German Jews had lived in Germany for generations and had become assimilated into the culture. Many had interbred with the Germans so they looked and dressed like Germans.

The Russian Jews who were being driven out of Russia into the west were very Semitic looking and Orthodox. So to the Germans they looked like space aliens had just invaded. Even the German Jews saw themselves as different from the Russian Jews.

Because the Russian Jews looked so alien it was easier to play upon peoples fears. The Polish were even more anti-semitic than the Germans and their leader was a dictator. Which was one of the reasons why Hitler didn’t believe the West would fight him over Poland.

Now back to China.

Here is an article about China’s involvement in Africa that makes some very good points about people like Orion. China is the new colonial power in Africa and they are raping the continent. If America was doing to Africa what the Chinese are doing, Orion and his ilk would be crying us a river and lecturing us about how horrible America is.

The Chinese plan on sending three hundred million of their people to Africa where they will be the new upper class, while the Africans will be at the bottom doing the most dangerous, menial jobs that are beneath the Chinese.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100119769/china-builds-its-african-empire-while-the-anti-colonialist-left-looks-the-other-way/

From Saturday’s Daily Telegraph

Imagine what would happen if America barged its way into a developing country, buttered up its homicidal dictator and agreed a back-of-the-envelope deal in which he signed over his nation?s mineral wealth in return for roads, railways and sports stadiums. Everyone would benefit, no?

No. The problem is that the infrastructure turns out to be worth a hell of a lot less than the minerals. Fortunately, Washington has had the foresight to top up the dictator?s Swiss bank account. Problem solved! As for the mining operation, the Americans really don?t want to be bothered by minimum wages or trade unions. They?re banned. And no complaints from the workforce, please, because no one wants a repeat of that ?misunderstanding? in which an American mine supervisor opened fire on stroppy employees.

If the United States embarked on this sort of colonial experiment, it would produce a furious ?Occupy Grosvenor Square? camp outside the US embassy and a withering play by Sir David Hare at the National. But since these things are actually being done not by America but by the People?s Republic of China across the entire African continent, the ?anti-colonialist? Left just yawns.

Ordinary Africans care, of course. The subject of China will loom large in Monday?s election in Congo, though since President Joseph Kabila has arranged to be re-elected, it won?t affect the result. It was Kabila who approved a $6 billion copper-for-infrastructure barter deal with China. Unfortunately, the sale of state mines has left Congo with a $5.5 billion black hole in its budget. Meanwhile, The Economist reports: ?The sale of mining licences at below-market value to firms associated with friends of the president has raised eyebrows.?

I can?t say it raised my eyebrows. How else do you think China does business in Africa? It suffered a setback in Zambia last year when President Michael Sata was elected on an anti-Chinese ticket. But Sata hasn?t fulfilled his promise to regulate Zambia?s Chinese-run copper mines, branded ?dangerously unsafe? by Human Rights Watch. And this week none other than ex-president Dr Kenneth Kaunda was in Beijing?s Great Hall of the People to discuss ?deepening substantial co-operation?.

There?s a school of thought which says that China?s modus operandi, however brutal, at least gets things built. In contrast, Western aid is tipped into dictators? pockets without anything to show for it. But the benefits of Beijing?s ?investment? are elusive, because the Chinese don?t usually employ Africans to perform anything but menial tasks. Chinese construction engineers build motorways and hospitals without passing on the skills to maintain them. The result: everything falls into disrepair within a decade, by which time the copper is safely out of the ground.

From a moral point of view, China?s policy towards Africa is despicable. But it?s ingenious, too. Beijing has worked out that, by virtue of being a non-Western power, it can pose as a ?developing country? while creating its sub-Saharan satrapies. The anti-racism lobby in the United Nations makes sure that the finger of guilt is pointed firmly at the former colonial powers, who are always happy to put on a display of breast-beating by, say, the Archbishop of Canterbury. Meanwhile, something close to slavery is being quietly reintroduced to the dark continent (which is how China thinks of it).

For 50 years, it?s been unclear in which direction Africans were heading. Now the question is almost irrelevant: the decision has been made for them.