Charlie Brown Kwanza

[ALDurr]

[quote]Ren wrote:
Wow, you dislike Kwanzaa because it is not directly tied to still ongoing African heritage/customs? Someone needs to get a clue, and as someone who was born and raised in Africa for 16 years, I shall enlighten you.

#1) South Africa alon has 13 or so “official” languages, 11 of which come from native tribes. So that’s 11 tribes with their own language and culture, in 1 country, that isn’t even the most heavily populated. Let’s multiply this by a continent. Once that is done you can divide most african languages into a few tribes that are different.

#2) As Prof. X pointed out, how the hell are black people in America gonna trace their roots to use a real holiday/custom/tradition or whatever. Despite the fact that this is downright impossible, you have the irreversible mingling of bloodlines and tribes that almost certainly at 1 point in time were more than happy throwing spears at each other. So theoretically, they could pick a real tradition, but it would be offensive to some black people because odds are their ancestors weren’t of the same tribe, or some such bullshit. Yeah, good call on that idea.

#3) Pull the stick out of your ass. This one should be self explanatory. While I have no problem with Kwanzaa itself (coming from Africa I find it rather silly to be honest), who the hell do you think you are to attack a group of people that DON’T have a ancestral heritage they can relate to. I can track my family tree practically to the 1200s, how many black people in America can do that? How many can see where they came from or what their ancestors achieved?

If some people wanna celebrate it, let them. I really see no harm in letting them make an attempt at showing something to do with the ancestry that runs through their veins.[/quote]

Well said, my friend. Well said.

[Lorisco]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:

There is one born every minute!

Thanks Pro for proving my point that Kwanzaa is meaningless in regards to any black person as it doesn’t and CAN’T relate to your actual heritage. (See how getting you to say what I wanted leaves you nowhere to go as it was your idea! Dam this is easy!)

So thanks to Pro, we have established that Kwanzaa doesn’t and can’t relate to anyone’s actual heritage. As such it is irrelevant to Africa.

Since it was created by an American perhaps it’s more American than anything. So since it doesn’t relate to African culture it would probably be a better idea to change it to relate specifically to the black experience in the US. So changing it to relate to some civil rights act or something of that nature would make more sense.

Thanks Pro, always a pleasure to converse with you.

Your point was not proven, you retarded jackass. All you have proven is that you can’t understand one simple concept…that if no “african american” truly knows their heritage if they are the product of American slavery, looking to Africa and combining the best of many cultures WOULD be a way of connecting with a part of the world that conceived you. I personally don’t celebrate Kwanzaa and don’t personally know anyone who does. I will, however, not degrade those who choose to.

Thanks for showing the depth of your mentality. I am assured that I could never drown.
[/quote]

Do you think calling me names helps your position or makes your points more valid? Seems to indicate the opposite my friend. Makes you look as if you have nothing else to contribute.

Now tell me what the “best of many cultures” means? What actual African practices or things from these many cultures is part of Kwanzaa? If it does actually contain any actual factual practices from an African State or region I will change me view and support Kwanzaa. But so far no one (including you) has been able to produce one actual practice of anyone in Africa to actually help Blacks of African descent to connect back to their roots.

When did I ever denigrate people who celebrate Kwanzaa? I didn’t. I think the practice is meaningless, but people who choose to keep it for whatever reason is a separate issue. People who are celebrating it are just trying to connect with their roots, which is great. I just think that if that is truly the meaning behind Kwanzaa it should actually contain some actual factual practice from anyplace in Africa.

[Lorisco]

[quote]Ren wrote:
#2) As Prof. X pointed out, how the hell are black people in America gonna trace their roots to use a real holiday/custom/tradition or whatever. Despite the fact that this is downright impossible, you have the irreversible mingling of bloodlines and tribes that almost certainly at 1 point in time were more than happy throwing spears at each other. So theoretically, they could pick a real tradition, but it would be offensive to some black people because odds are their ancestors weren’t of the same tribe, or some such bullshit. Yeah, good call on that idea.
[/quote]
Dude, you have to use some logic in your posts.

Let’s work this through, shall we.

If Kwanzaa contained a specific practice of some region in Africa, how would that upset some people? Remember bro, Pro X has been repeatedly stating that Blacks in America don’t know their heritage (which is the entire freaking reason for Kwanzaa according to Pro). So if blacks don’t know their heritage they won’t know that any particular practice was not from their region of origin. And if they don’t know that they have no reason to be upset do they!

Try again! You guys are talking in circles.

#3) Pull the stick out of your ass. This one should be self explanatory. While I have no problem with Kwanzaa itself (coming from Africa I find it rather silly to be honest), who the hell do you think you are to attack a group of people that DON’T have a ancestral heritage they can relate to. I can track my family tree practically to the 1200s, how many black people in America can do that? How many can see where they came from or what their ancestors achieved?

Don’t attribute things to me that I have not indicated. I’m not attacking anyone.

I also think Kwanzaa is silly. But also think it should be better and actually give Blacks some valid things to hold on to support their cultural heritage. Without that it just looks anti-American.

So be clear, I support Blacks trying to connect with their roots. I just think Kwanzaa does not help them do that the way it is currently constructed.

[Lorisco]

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
This seems to happen a great deal on here and in America in general. Black people (or African-American if you prefer. I’m old-school, so either is fine with me.) try to have something that is specifically for them alone to do something positive and make their community feel good about themselves and people who are outside of the community feel this need to comment, criticize and belittle their efforts. It shows that idiotic, racist feelings have no bounds.

Generally, there are two types of people that feel the need to be this way, those that have a deep seeded racist viewpoint, whether they want to admit it or not, and those who are jealous that their own cultures aren’t doing the same things here in America. Usually these people are in denial and want to convince others of their perceived logic around their jealousy. You should really pity them.
[/quote]

Hi Al, you left out the third kind of people, those who feel that any celebration of national origin outside the US takes away from this nation. Why do you need to celebrate where you came from unless it is so great you want to go back? Why is not being American good enough? Why do you have to be “(fill in the blank)-American” and can’t just be American?

I totally support anyone coming to the US to take advantage of what this country has to offer. But if you do that, be freakin American. News flash! America does have a distinct culture of it’s very own. No one needs to search outside our boarders for a culture, because we have one right here.

I was born in the US and don’t give a crap about where my ancestors may have lived before. So I’m NOT anything - American. I am American, and that is better than any other country in the world. I’m proud of that and you should be also.

So my question is why can’t Blacks just be American and feel good about that? I mean shit, as you stated, they built this country. It is more their country than Africa is.

[Professor_X]

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Do you think calling me names helps your position or makes your points more valid? Seems to indicate the opposite my friend. Makes you look as if you have nothing else to contribute. [/quote]

I think calling you names shows that I am tired of the bullshit spilling from your keyboard. You aren’t arguing this because of some deep desire for “world wide unity”. You are arguing because you want to degrade an activity conducted by some Blacks in this country. I have contributed all that I needed to. I doubt anyone else has a difficult time understanding the points made.

[quote]
Now tell me what the “best of many cultures” means? What actual African practices or things from these many cultures is part of Kwanzaa? If it does actually contain any actual factual practices from an African State or region I will change me view and support Kwanzaa. But so far no one (including you) has been able to produce one actual practice of anyone in Africa to actually help Blacks of African descent to connect back to their roots. [/quote]

This is a lie. Al Durr just listed to you the concept of community and self improvement that is at the heart of, not just African culture, but is the seat of many existing cultures in the world. How did you miss this? Out of 100 different cultures, you are pissed because the actions chosen to uplift are self improvement and communal harmony? You can’t be this disconnected.

When did I ever denigrate people who celebrate Kwanzaa? I didn’t. I think the practice is meaningless, but people who choose to keep it for whatever reason is a separate issue. People who are celebrating it are just trying to connect with their roots, which is great. I just think that if that is truly the meaning behind Kwanzaa it should actually contain some actual factual practice from anyplace in Africa.

Again, this simply shows your own ignorance. There are MANY cultures in Africa. How am I to know which one I came from ancestrally? I should just pick one to make you happy? You are stupid. It shows. That is not just an insult thrown at you, you keep proving it as fact by ignoring basic concepts and then pretending as if no one ever told you. Have fun trying to degrade the act. It really makes you look like a winner. Have a great one.

[Varqanir]

A group of people are transported to a strange continent, far across the Atlantic ocean. They are in cultural limbo, ignorant of the languages, customs and traditions of the hostile new land, and are utterly alienated from the mainstream culture of their native land.

Through many hardships and privations, many suffer and die, yet many more prevail. They decide to celebrate their good fortune and solidarity in the face of adversity, not through any of the traditional religious celebrations from any of their home countries (even assuming they could agree on, or indeed remember any such traditions) but rather in a simple harvest festival, expressing their gratitute at the fact that they are still alive and together as a people, with their faith and their families intact.

Kwanzaa?

No. Thanksgiving: the first American national holiday.

Of course, Thanksgiving is not directly connected with any specific tradition practiced in any country in Mother Europe, so perhaps we should denigrate and abolish this made-up holiday, too.

[Professor_X]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
A group of people are transported to a strange continent, far across the Atlantic ocean. They are in cultural limbo, ignorant of the languages, customs and traditions of the hostile new land, and are utterly alienated from the mainstream culture of their native land.

Through many hardships and privations, many suffer and die, yet many more prevail. They decide to celebrate their good fortune and solidarity in the face of adversity, not through any of the traditional religious celebrations from any of their home countries (even assuming they could agree on, or indeed remember any such traditions) but rather in a simple harvest festival, expressing their gratitute at the fact that they are still alive and together as a people, with their faith and their families intact.

Kwanzaa?

No. Thanksgiving: the first American national holiday.

Of course, Thanksgiving is not directly connected with any specific tradition practiced in any country in Mother Europe, so perhaps we should denigrate and abolish this made-up holiday, too.[/quote]

Ouch.

[Lorisco]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Do you think calling me names helps your position or makes your points more valid? Seems to indicate the opposite my friend. Makes you look as if you have nothing else to contribute.

I think calling you names shows that I am tired of the bullshit spilling from your keyboard. You aren’t arguing this because of some deep desire for “world wide unity”. You are arguing because you want to degrade an activity conducted by some Blacks in this country. I have contributed all that I needed to. I doubt anyone else has a difficult time understanding the points made.
[/quote]

I’m also tired of your self-righteous condescending bullshit, but I have the class to not engage in the childish name-calling that you appear to resort to when you have no responsible response.

Must be nice to be able to read minds and know someone’s motivation. Your response just shows you have no idea what I’m talking about. The fact is that I am trying to unite the US. Not the world, just the good old USA.

Now tell me what the “best of many cultures” means? What actual African practices or things from these many cultures is part of Kwanzaa? If it does actually contain any actual factual practices from an African State or region I will change me view and support Kwanzaa. But so far no one (including you) has been able to produce one actual practice of anyone in Africa to actually help Blacks of African descent to connect back to their roots.

This is a lie. Al Durr just listed to you the concept of community and self improvement that is at the heart of, not just African culture, but is the seat of many existing cultures in the world. How did you miss this? Out of 100 different cultures, you are pissed because the actions chosen to uplift are self improvement and communal harmony? You can’t be this disconnected.

How does Kwanzaa support these concepts of community, self-reliance, etc? Just saying that it means that without some relevant related practice or observance doesn’t really get the point across. So what practice is part of Kwanzaa that embodies those ideals?

When did I ever denigrate people who celebrate Kwanzaa? I didn’t. I think the practice is meaningless, but people who choose to keep it for whatever reason is a separate issue. People who are celebrating it are just trying to connect with their roots, which is great. I just think that if that is truly the meaning behind Kwanzaa it should actually contain some actual factual practice from anyplace in Africa.

Again, this simply shows your own ignorance. There are MANY cultures in Africa. How am I to know which one I came from ancestrally? I should just pick one to make you happy? You are stupid. It shows. That is not just an insult thrown at you, you keep proving it as fact by ignoring basic concepts and then pretending as if no one ever told you. Have fun trying to degrade the act. It really makes you look like a winner. Have a great one.

And again you show that you have no reasonable answer and have to results to name calling.

You are correct that there are many regions of Africa with many different cultural practices. And picking some of these practices may not do justice to all the Blacks in America from a heritage perspective, but then what is the point?

How can you sit there and say it relates to Africa and then turn around and say it can’t relate to anything real in Africa because the cultures are too diverse? At best Kwanzaa relates to some romanticized view of Africa, which is fine, but how does that really help Blacks understand and relate to their roots?

[Lorisco]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
A group of people are transported to a strange continent, far across the Atlantic ocean. They are in cultural limbo, ignorant of the languages, customs and traditions of the hostile new land, and are utterly alienated from the mainstream culture of their native land.

Through many hardships and privations, many suffer and die, yet many more prevail. They decide to celebrate their good fortune and solidarity in the face of adversity, not through any of the traditional religious celebrations from any of their home countries (even assuming they could agree on, or indeed remember any such traditions) but rather in a simple harvest festival, expressing their gratitute at the fact that they are still alive and together as a people, with their faith and their families intact.

Kwanzaa?

No. Thanksgiving: the first American national holiday.

Of course, Thanksgiving is not directly connected with any specific tradition practiced in any country in Mother Europe, so perhaps we should denigrate and abolish this made-up holiday, too.[/quote]

Unlike Kwanzaa, Thanksgiving relates to practices or events from this group of people that occurred in THIS country, NOT the country of their origin. THAT is the point.

Thanks for sharing!

[ALDurr]

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
How does Kwanzaa support these concepts of community, self-reliance, etc? Just saying that it means that without some relevant related practice or observance doesn’t really get the point across. So what practice is part of Kwanzaa that embodies those ideals?
[/quote]

Lorisco, this statement you made illustrates a point about you. You have a true lack of knowledge of Kwanzaa and how it is practiced. How can you have such issues with Kwanzaa when it is clear that you do not understand anything about it? You need to do some research on the topic. Not just reading online, but actually talk to people that practice Kwanzaa. If you do that, then these questions will be answered. Maybe then, you will be less likely to jump to conclusions about topics related to black people, which is something you do on a regular basis.

If you do decide to do this, make sure to go with an open mind. Otherwise you will be treated much like you are being treated on here.

[Lorisco]

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
How does Kwanzaa support these concepts of community, self-reliance, etc? Just saying that it means that without some relevant related practice or observance doesn’t really get the point across. So what practice is part of Kwanzaa that embodies those ideals?

Lorisco, this statement you made illustrates a point about you. You have a true lack of knowledge of Kwanzaa and how it is practiced. How can you have such issues with Kwanzaa when it is clear that you do not understand anything about it? You need to do some research on the topic. Not just reading online, but actually talk to people that practice Kwanzaa. If you do that, then these questions will be answered. Maybe then, you will be less likely to jump to conclusions about topics related to black people, which is something you do on a regular basis.

If you do decide to do this, make sure to go with an open mind. Otherwise you will be treated much like you are being treated on here.[/quote]

Al, while we don’t always agree, I respect your views and opinions. Unlike others here, you seem to think for yourself and are not just another person going along with the crowd because it is popular.

As you have seen, I don’t go along with the crowd and am not afraid to ask the hard questions. However, you are mistaken it that it is on all issues, not just those that involve Blacks.

As you suggested I will talk with a few Black people I know about this to see what they feel about it. However, my issue is with Kwanzaa’s design, not those who keep it or don’t.

Now, I would like to ask you something; you are supporting Kwanzaa but appear to be unable to answer the specifics about the practice. Why is that?

Are you supporting the design of Kwanzaa as being helpful to Blacks purely because it was a Black guy that made it up, or because you personally have seen the benefit it provides?

Frankly, since you and X have stated you don’t observe it that leads me to think that you are supporting it for no other rational reason than it was designed by a Black guy.

So based on your responses I could also conclude that your position is not based on facts about Kwanzaa, and you therefore should also do some research to know what exactly you are defending. Maybe then you will change your view, or not. At least then you will also have some rational basis to defend it.

[ALDurr]

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
How does Kwanzaa support these concepts of community, self-reliance, etc? Just saying that it means that without some relevant related practice or observance doesn’t really get the point across. So what practice is part of Kwanzaa that embodies those ideals?

Lorisco, this statement you made illustrates a point about you. You have a true lack of knowledge of Kwanzaa and how it is practiced. How can you have such issues with Kwanzaa when it is clear that you do not understand anything about it? You need to do some research on the topic. Not just reading online, but actually talk to people that practice Kwanzaa. If you do that, then these questions will be answered. Maybe then, you will be less likely to jump to conclusions about topics related to black people, which is something you do on a regular basis.

If you do decide to do this, make sure to go with an open mind. Otherwise you will be treated much like you are being treated on here.

Al, while we don’t always agree, I respect your views and opinions. Unlike others here, you seem to think for yourself and are not just another person going along with the crowd because it is popular.

As you have seen, I don’t go along with the crowd and am not afraid to ask the hard questions. However, you are mistaken it that it is on all issues, not just those that involve Blacks.

As you suggested I will talk with a few Black people I know about this to see what they feel about it. However, my issue is with Kwanzaa’s design, not those who keep it or don’t.

Now, I would like to ask you something; you are supporting Kwanzaa but appear to be unable to answer the specifics about the practice. Why is that?

Are you supporting the design of Kwanzaa as being helpful to Blacks purely because it was a Black guy that made it up, or because you personally have seen the benefit it provides?

Frankly, since you and X have stated you don’t observe it that leads me to think that you are supporting it for no other rational reason than it was designed by a Black guy.

So based on your responses I could also conclude that your position is not based on facts about Kwanzaa, and you therefore should also do some research to know what exactly you are defending. Maybe then you will change your view, or not. At least then you will also have some rational basis to defend it.

[/quote]

Just to clarify, I don’t regularly practice Kwanzaa but I do know about it and understand the principles of Kwanzaa and try to practice them throughout the rest of the year. I also have participated in Kwanzaa celebrations. I just don’t make a habit of doing it every year, thus my statement about not observing it. You are wrong in your assumption that I am supporting it purely because a black person invented it. I support it because these are principles that my family tried to instill in me as a child.

If you are truly going to take the time to learn about it, then you need to understand the 7 principles. They are:

Umoja - “Unity” This stresses the importance of togetherness for the family and the community.

Kujichagulia - “Self-Determination” This requires that we define our common interests and make decisions that are in the best interest of our family and community.

Ujima - “Collective Work and Responsibility” This reminds us of our obligation to the past, present and future, and that we have a role to play in the community, society, and world.

Ujamaa - “Cooperative economics” This emphasizes our collective economic strength and encourages us to meet common needs through mutual support.

Nia - “Purpose” This encourages us to look within ourselves and to set personal goals that are beneficial to the community.

Kuumba - “Creativity” This makes use of our creative energies to build and maintain a strong and vibrant community.

Imani - “Faith” This focuses on honoring the best of our traditions, draws upon the best in ourselves, and helps us strive for a higher level of life for humankind, by affirming our self-worth and confidence in our ability to succeed and triumph in righteous struggle.

(*Note - I did steal the verbage of the principles from another source because it was easier than trying to type it out myself)

As you can see, you don’t have to practice Kwanzaa to support it. My family raised me by these principles and I try to put them in practice daily. My support has nothing to do with it just being created by a black person. The actual practice of Kwanzaa is something that you should be doing throughout the year. The celebration from Dec. 26th to Jan. 1st is to celebrate the successes, reflect on past year, and to promise to improve in the coming year. The celebration is a small part of the whole.

Now as far as the design of Kwanzaa, it was done this way to make people realize that these principles are a part of our heritage that pre-dates slavery and by following the principles that it links us to our pasts. You have a problem with this because you can’t see a direct correlation. That is because the connection is not one of specific dates, times, locations or even tribes. It has to do with the spirit of the principles. Do the trappings accurately reflect each individual tribe and custom? Most likely not. But that doesn’t matter. It is the spirit of the celebration that is important, not the trappings. If you can’t understand that, then you will never understand.

Don’t just talk to black people about it. Find some that practice it and participate yourself. It’s not closed to anyone just because it has African trappings. Everyone can be a part of it. Like I said before, these principles are present in many cultures around the world.

[doogie]

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
It’s not closed to anyone just because it has African trappings. Everyone can be a part of it. Like I said before, these principles are present in many cultures around the world.[/quote]

Originally it WAS closed to people. It was originally specifically anti-Christian:

"…Kwanzaa is not an imitation, but an alternative, in fact, and oppositional alternative to the spookism, mysticism and non-earth based practices which plague us as a people . . . " pg 14, Kwanzaa: origin, concepts, practice. 1977 (spookism Karenga defines as “belief in spooks who threaten us if we don’t worship them and demand we turn over our destiny and daily lives…” p 27. Kawaida Theory)

Karenga later changed his mind (when it became more commercially advantageous for him):

“Kwanzaa was not created to give people an alternative to their own religion or religious holiday. . . . For Kwanzaa is not a reaction or substitute for anything.” p. 117 Kwanzaa: A Celebration of Family Community and Culture, M. Karenga, 1997.

I don’t think anyone has a problem with the 7 principles. It’s the origins (and the racist criminal who started the holiday) that most see as a problem.

[Lorisco]

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
How does Kwanzaa support these concepts of community, self-reliance, etc? Just saying that it means that without some relevant related practice or observance doesn’t really get the point across. So what practice is part of Kwanzaa that embodies those ideals?

Lorisco, this statement you made illustrates a point about you. You have a true lack of knowledge of Kwanzaa and how it is practiced. How can you have such issues with Kwanzaa when it is clear that you do not understand anything about it? You need to do some research on the topic. Not just reading online, but actually talk to people that practice Kwanzaa. If you do that, then these questions will be answered. Maybe then, you will be less likely to jump to conclusions about topics related to black people, which is something you do on a regular basis.

If you do decide to do this, make sure to go with an open mind. Otherwise you will be treated much like you are being treated on here.

Al, while we don’t always agree, I respect your views and opinions. Unlike others here, you seem to think for yourself and are not just another person going along with the crowd because it is popular.

As you have seen, I don’t go along with the crowd and am not afraid to ask the hard questions. However, you are mistaken it that it is on all issues, not just those that involve Blacks.

As you suggested I will talk with a few Black people I know about this to see what they feel about it. However, my issue is with Kwanzaa’s design, not those who keep it or don’t.

Now, I would like to ask you something; you are supporting Kwanzaa but appear to be unable to answer the specifics about the practice. Why is that?

Are you supporting the design of Kwanzaa as being helpful to Blacks purely because it was a Black guy that made it up, or because you personally have seen the benefit it provides?

Frankly, since you and X have stated you don’t observe it that leads me to think that you are supporting it for no other rational reason than it was designed by a Black guy.

So based on your responses I could also conclude that your position is not based on facts about Kwanzaa, and you therefore should also do some research to know what exactly you are defending. Maybe then you will change your view, or not. At least then you will also have some rational basis to defend it.

Just to clarify, I don’t regularly practice Kwanzaa but I do know about it and understand the principles of Kwanzaa and try to practice them throughout the rest of the year. I also have participated in Kwanzaa celebrations. I just don’t make a habit of doing it every year, thus my statement about not observing it. You are wrong in your assumption that I am supporting it purely because a black person invented it. I support it because these are principles that my family tried to instill in me as a child.

If you are truly going to take the time to learn about it, then you need to understand the 7 principles. They are:

Umoja - “Unity” This stresses the importance of togetherness for the family and the community.

Kujichagulia - “Self-Determination” This requires that we define our common interests and make decisions that are in the best interest of our family and community.

Ujima - “Collective Work and Responsibility” This reminds us of our obligation to the past, present and future, and that we have a role to play in the community, society, and world.

Ujamaa - “Cooperative economics” This emphasizes our collective economic strength and encourages us to meet common needs through mutual support.

Nia - “Purpose” This encourages us to look within ourselves and to set personal goals that are beneficial to the community.

Kuumba - “Creativity” This makes use of our creative energies to build and maintain a strong and vibrant community.

Imani - “Faith” This focuses on honoring the best of our traditions, draws upon the best in ourselves, and helps us strive for a higher level of life for humankind, by affirming our self-worth and confidence in our ability to succeed and triumph in righteous struggle.

(*Note - I did steal the verbage of the principles from another source because it was easier than trying to type it out myself)

As you can see, you don’t have to practice Kwanzaa to support it. My family raised me by these principles and I try to put them in practice daily. My support has nothing to do with it just being created by a black person. The actual practice of Kwanzaa is something that you should be doing throughout the year. The celebration from Dec. 26th to Jan. 1st is to celebrate the successes, reflect on past year, and to promise to improve in the coming year. The celebration is a small part of the whole.

Now as far as the design of Kwanzaa, it was done this way to make people realize that these principles are a part of our heritage that pre-dates slavery and by following the principles that it links us to our pasts. You have a problem with this because you can’t see a direct correlation. That is because the connection is not one of specific dates, times, locations or even tribes. It has to do with the spirit of the principles. Do the trappings accurately reflect each individual tribe and custom? Most likely not. But that doesn’t matter. It is the spirit of the celebration that is important, not the trappings. If you can’t understand that, then you will never understand.

Don’t just talk to black people about it. Find some that practice it and participate yourself. It’s not closed to anyone just because it has African trappings. Everyone can be a part of it. Like I said before, these principles are present in many cultures around the world.[/quote]

Al, you are a gentleman and a scholar. I appreciate you outlining these principles.

I do have a question; Blacks or anyone celebrating these principles in the US would then apply those to the community they live in. Correct? So Kwanzaa could be stated to be supportive of the community of the US, or whatever country those observing it lived in?

[Mr_Bear]

[quote]
Lorisco wrote:

Unlike Kwanza, Christmas is celebrated around the world by people in most all counties. It is a Christian holiday. And yes my little rocket scientist, the US is a Christian Country. Why do you think it states “In God We Trust” on our money? Retard!

[quote]

Apparently you didn’t used to be so opposed to “name calling”