Jason,
Stick to music.
Zeb
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
vroom wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
This stuff isn’t new. You are just late in realizing it. My guess would be because they weren’t publicizing it at the time it occured. That is the type of information control and outright propaganda you want to harken back to?
Sky, I think Zeb is just bitching because he feels like he is unable to exert the type of control he’d like to be able to.
Welcome to the club Zeb! 
Yea, I’ve had that thought on the back burner too. There are a couple of big red buttons that I’ve been having a hard time not pushing. Better sense keeps telling me NO.
[/quote]
I think that a certain loss of at least some control is certainly frustrating. Especially when you have children that you want to protect from certain things that you know are harmful.
I’m sure that you can relate to that in some way.
Have a good night,
Zeb
See? Allways to the porn.
Looks like Zeb has a serious hangup with a certain pet subject.
I’m bettin on reaction formation.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
See? Allways to the porn.
Looks like Zeb has a serious hangup with a certain pet subject.
I’m bettin on reaction formation.
[/quote]
Yes, I have a serious hang up when it comes to allowing 9 year olds to view porn…
I’m funny that way (eye roll).
Ok I can see where this topic is going. It started out as an actual debate over censorship, but it really has turned into a pseudo-political debate. There are always too sides. Those who want a little control (conservative types) and those who do not (liberal types).
I agree whole-heartedly that having an 9-year-old see porn is not going to scar him for life. What it will do is alter the course of his adolescence. It will mature him faster than he needs to be matured. It forces them to try and make sense of all of this and it’s just not something they need to have to think about at such an early age. This goes equally for violence, drugs, smoking, anything traditionally “taboo”.
We’re not all religious types (don’t get me started on that “fake” crap) so don’t pull the religion or moral card. There is an appropriate age for exposure to all things, and that age is usually not when it actually happens.
As parents, and for those who are not… do not try and tell me you actually understand- because you don’t and never will until you actually have children, you’re responsibility lies in shaping and guiding the lives of these kids to make them responsible adults. This includes allowing them some freedom, but “protecting” them from things that you feel are bad influences and can affect their development until they are mature enough to deciminate the information for themselves and make their own decisions.
I do agree with the earlier ascertation that by disallowing some things you only peak their interest, but so is life. If they take the initiative to seek out certain things- then most likely they have reached the maturity level to handle what they find.
It’s the things they don’t seek out that worry me.
[quote]The reason that you are NOT for this is because you understand quite well that little Sally, no matter how hard her parents try will eventually view at least some porn if it’s shown at 8pm. And that at the age of 9 Sally should not be watching such things.
That means that YOU believe in censorship of some kind. [/quote]
Zeb, sex and nudity aren’t “evil”. The world won’t end if a child sneaks a porn into the VCR when the parents are busy doing something elsewhere in the house.
In some societies, these things are much more visible than in ours.
Again, what I support is your right to choose how you want to raise your children – not your right to decide how the world should be structured so that you can find it easier to raise your children in the environment that you want.
However, as you’ve alluded to, there are things worse than sex and nudity, per se, out there and available for public consumption.
I don’t have any kids of my own yet, so the only thing I can contribute to this discussion is my oberservation of my own upbringing along with those of kids that were around me.
DISCLAIMER: I am not trying to convince anyone that I know how to raise kids; again, these are mostly just observations with a couple of ideas of my own.
I was raised in a house where I was allowed to do and see pretty much whatever I wanted. I was allowed to see R-rated movies as far back as I can remember and sex wasn’t made into that big of a deal (I did have to hide the Playboy still; that would just be embarrasing). About the only thing that was ever really impressed on me is that physical violence is bad. It was made very clear to me (somehow) that movies and TV are just movies and TV and that hurting other people is not nice. I was also raised going to church, but none of this was ever shoved down my throat. It was just something we did as a family. The most important thing I think I can say for my upbringing is that my parents gave me attention. They didn’t smother me with it, but when I needed it, it was there. From my own point of view, I think I turned out alright. But just to be clear, I’m not perfect and I don’t consider myself any better than anyone else.
Around me I saw what I could probably break down into three categories (I realize parenting is not that simple, but for the sake of this discussion I’m going to do it):
-
First was kids like me who were allowed to see whatever movies they wanted to see, play whatever games they wanted to play, listen to whatever music they felt like, etc., etc. The one thing we had in common was that our parents were fairly involved in our lives.
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Second was kids who were allowed to do and see pretty much whatever they wanted, as well. There was one big difference, however. Their parents weren’t around much, and when they were they didn’t seem to give a damn. They didn’t care if they got a phone call about Johnny skipping school today, they didn’t care if Johnny wanted to have all of his friends over to get wasted in the basement. Heck, sometimes they’d provide the alcohol and cigarettes.
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Last were the kids who weren’t allowed to see or do anything that was bad. They weren’t completely sheltered from the world. But their parents weren’t just involved in their lives; they were involved in every aspect of it. These kids weren’t allowed to see any bad movies, play any bad video games, listen to explicit lyrics, etc. A commonality between these families seemed to be the fact that religion was a big deal in the househould (unfortunately, this might be part of the reason I got a bad taste in my mouth for conventional religion while growing up, but that’s a whole other thread). This wasn’t the case in every house like that, but did seem to be common.
As anyone can probably see where this is going, the kids who generally turned out with more problems came from the last two groups. I’m not necessarily talking about financial and career success (though sometimes that was the case, too). No, I’m talking about kids that turned out with some serious mental issues. They just weren’t well-adjusted is the best way I can put it I guess. A lot of them even developed drug and alcohol problems. Again this isn’t how every kid in either of the latter two categories turned out. But it was definitely more common than kids from the first. And keep in mind, I’m still friends with people from all three backgrounds. I’m not judging them for how they turned out. It just happened, and that’s the way it is.
I guess the only thing I can offer from this, in my very limited wisdom on parenting, is just pay attention to your kids. Be interested in their lives. Make sure they understand that you will listen to them talk about anything they want (I could tell my parents anything growing up). But don’t try to hide them from everything. They’re going to get into trouble. They’re going to look at porn behind your back somewhere. They’re going to have that first beer or that first cigarette somewhere long before they should. They’re going to hear kids with the mouth of a sailor at school. But if you’re there for them, I would guess most of the time they’re going to make better decisions when it really comes down to the important things in life.
[quote]vroom wrote:
The reason that you are NOT for this is because you understand quite well that little Sally, no matter how hard her parents try will eventually view at least some porn if it’s shown at 8pm. And that at the age of 9 Sally should not be watching such things.
That means that YOU believe in censorship of some kind.
Zeb, sex and nudity aren’t “evil”. The world won’t end if a child sneaks a porn into the VCR when the parents are busy doing something elsewhere in the house.[/quote]
I will go one better: sex and nudity are beautiful things! 
It’s not a matter of good things vs bad things. It’s a matter of the maturity level of those who are involved.
I can use the examples of guns, automobiles and alcohol. Three things that adults have access to and should be allowed to have.
But…three very dangerous things in the hands of a child.
Let’s keep guns, cars, alcholo and porn away from kids! Let, kids be kids, growing up too fast is not a good thing.
I agree with you again. However, let’s make sure that society, or pop culture is not dictating to parents exactly when their child should be told about sex and other such topics.
As you say it should be up to the parents on how to raise their children.
I agree with you (for the third time on this post :).
But, just because some things are worse than porn, for a child, that does not negate the fact that porn is absolutely BAD for a child to view.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I will go one better: sex and nudity are beautiful things!
It’s not a matter of good things vs bad things. It’s a matter of the maturity level of those who are involved.[/quote]
Hahaha, this reminds me of an argument I’ve had in my head for years:
Why is it that content that is labeled “adult” or “mature” is, in actuality, geared toward and participated by adolescents at best?
This is not meant to partisan to either side. It’s just a question I’ve had that your comment above reminded me of.
OK, you guys can get back to your discussion now (which, as usual has gotten way outta hand…)