[quote]Severiano wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Severiano wrote:<<< We are the ones who utilize reason and knowledge. >>>[/quote]You DO utilize reason and knowledge. EV REE BUDDY does. Couldn’t avoid them if you wanted to. Created in the image of the super logical God. That’s the point. [quote]Severiano wrote:<<< From an A priori standpoint there is no evidence for a God, AT ALL. >>>[/quote]From an A priori standpoint there is no particle of knowledge in all of existence, and ESPECIALLY man as created in His image, that IS NOT a clear and inescapable PROCLAMATION of not just any God, but my triune God of the bible. Trust me. You have not thought this through. The problem is not a lack of evidence. The problem is man’s blindness in sin. [quote]Severiano wrote:<<< though unless you want to take a position against the Catholic Philosopher Alvin Plantinga (who I am an avid fan of) >>>[/quote]My position is against every philosopher you ever heard of my friend. Couldn’t be otherwise. Laugh if you must. I’m used to it. [quote]Severiano wrote:<<< I’ll check out your thread, I have avoided it on purpose for a while. But if you say I should look at it, I will. [/quote]You should. It will take an investment of time though because, nuthin personal, but I am not typing all that over again. Take some time seriously. You might be surprised at how stimulating some of those exchanges are. I’m not saying that just because I’m in the middle of them. There are numerous far older threads and a couple thousand years of church history wherein this discussion has taken place.
My epistemology thread: The Secret History of Money - Politics and World Issues - Forums - T Nation
Brother Chris’s metaphysics thread: Metaphysics: The ACTUAL Key to Everything - Politics and World Issues - Forums - T Nation
Cortes free will thread: Free Will - Politics and World Issues - Forums - T Nation
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To me this makes absolutely no sense at all. You claim to be a metaphysics man, but then you follow none of the rules or that even Plantinga follows, who is THE Philosophical mental giant as far as Catholicism goes. If you don’t agree with him, we are playing on different ball fields. Completely different. To me, it looks like you are making excuses to hold your position, but I could be wrong. I’m saying it just does not follow (in my mind). [/quote]
Hmm I don’t think Alvin Plantinga is Catholic just because he necessarily taught at Notre Dame and considering his work on “the Reformed objection to natural theology”, “Reformed epistemology and corresponding foundation in ‘Calvin’s sensus divinitatis’” and he him self says came from a ducth reformed background(though what he says he is I am not sure). Tirib is a Calvinist Van Tillian presuppositionalist.
Anyways getting to what Tirib is getting at(i’ll use Plantinga even though Tirib isn’t a fan); here is a relevant quote
(Reasonable Faith 3rd Ed. p41-42) “The notion of warrant, that quality which differentiates knowledge from merely true belief, is philosophically controversial, and it is to the analysiss of this notion that Plantinga then turns. He first exposits and then criticizes all major theories of warrant which are offered by epistemologists today, such as deontologism, reliabilism, coherentism and so forth. Fundamentally, Plantinga’s method of exposing the inadequacy of such theories is to construct thougth experiments or scenarios in which all the conditions for warrant stipulated by a theory are met and yet in which it is obvious that the person in question does not have knowledge of the proposition which he believes because his cognitive faculties are malfunctioning in forming the belief. this common failing suggests that rational warrant inherently involves the notion of the proper functioning of one’s cognitive faculties. But this raises the troublesome question, what does it mean for one’s cognitive faculties to be “fuctioning properly”? Here Plantinga drops a bomb into mainstream epistemology by proposing a peculiarly theistic account of rational warrant and proper functioning, namely, that one’s cognitive faculties are functioning properly only if they are functioning as God designed them to.”(Warranted Christian Belief).
This is a part of what Tirib means by “You steal reason and knowledge from my bank in so doing and I have demonstrated why in the epistemology and metaphysics thread among others. Check those please.” even though I think he could presented his case more clearly in those threads. Descartes also hints upon this in his Meditations in where he says “the less powerful the author to whom they attribute my origin, the more probable it will be that I am so imperfect as to be deceived all the time.”
Anyways I have to go hit arms and then go to work synthesizing chemicals.
