Well, I have a question for you, do you think that all that Jesus did is in the Gospels? Or, do you think in the three years of his ministry and 33 years that the man may have done more than just what the Gospels say?
John 21:25 says, “there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.”
[/quote]
Well, that’s pretty curious given the lack of mention of the man named Jesus in then contemporary historical records. Remarkable.
Well, I have a question for you, do you think that all that Jesus did is in the Gospels? Or, do you think in the three years of his ministry and 33 years that the man may have done more than just what the Gospels say?
John 21:25 says, “there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.”
[/quote]
Well, that’s pretty curious given the lack of mention of the man named Jesus in then contemporary historical records. Remarkable.[/quote]
What I find fascinating about the Catholic Church is it’s complete role reversal. It went from defender of the West, to the exact opposite. It almost seems bent on destroying the West through it’s support of tidal waves of immigration, and promoting exploding birth rates in the non-Western world.
Well, I have a question for you, do you think that all that Jesus did is in the Gospels? Or, do you think in the three years of his ministry and 33 years that the man may have done more than just what the Gospels say?
John 21:25 says, “there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.”
[/quote]
Well, that’s pretty curious given the lack of mention of the man named Jesus in then contemporary historical records. Remarkable.[/quote]
Again, I don’t follow what you mean.[/quote]
Read again what you wrote, and the scripture you quoted. And then consider the utter lack of extra-biblical historical references to Jesus such that he did “many other things…that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.”
Perhaps it is better stated as “no such books (historical, extra-biblical) contain what Jesus allegedly did.” You never found it odd that 3 years of ministry and 33 years on this earth are with scant exception not noted anywhere except in the bible?
God created the entire universe in 6 days, rested on the 7th (because God needs rest right?). I’m assuming he gave the 10 commandments in what? A moment? But he wasted 33 years in earthly form, along with 3 years of “ministry” to give the tenets of the NT. Hmm.
Chris, I do apologize. It is not until I started participating in these threads that I fully understood why most people do not talk religion. It’s utterly pointless. But the topic interests me, and like a moth to a flame, here I come. However, I find your arguments utterly irrational - nothing personal against you, I find all dogmatic religious talking points utterly irrational.
I do not intend to be mean spirited. My impression is that your belief is earnest and faithful. I just disagree with you. So let’s agree to disagree. I’m not more going to make you reject the Catholic Church (not that that’s my goal) than you are going to have me attending Mass next Sunday. Fair enough?
[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:
What I find fascinating about the Catholic Church is it’s complete role reversal. It went from defender of the West, to the exact opposite. It almost seems bent on destroying the West through it’s support of tidal waves of immigration, and promoting exploding birth rates in the non-Western world.
Frankly, it’s as much an enemy as Islam is.[/quote]
Well, I have a question for you, do you think that all that Jesus did is in the Gospels? Or, do you think in the three years of his ministry and 33 years that the man may have done more than just what the Gospels say?
John 21:25 says, “there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.”
[/quote]
Well, that’s pretty curious given the lack of mention of the man named Jesus in then contemporary historical records. Remarkable.[/quote]
Again, I don’t follow what you mean.[/quote]
Read again what you wrote, and the scripture you quoted. And then consider the utter lack of extra-biblical historical references to Jesus such that he did “many other things…that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.”
Perhaps it is better stated as “no such books (historical, extra-biblical) contain what Jesus allegedly did.” You never found it odd that 3 years of ministry and 33 years on this earth are with scant exception not noted anywhere except in the bible?[/quote]
No, because I’m Catholic and we rely on Oral Tradition.
[quote]
God created the entire universe in 6 days, rested on the 7th (because God needs rest right?).[/quote]
No he created the Sabbath so that man could rest. And, I think you forgot…but I’m not a Protestant, I am a Catholic. Monsignor Georges Lemaitre, a priest from the Catholic University of Louvain proposed the idea of the Big Bang theory.
Lol…cereal? Maybe you should look but G-d’s revelation is more than the ten commandments in the OT. And, it took a long time to deliver it. Wasted? No, G-d doesn’t just drop down and with a booming voice explain himself. That maybe what everyone wants, but that’s a female trait to be honest (to want to be told what to do).
I think why some people say that is because they think the point is to win a debate. My motives are much less noble than that. So, I’m like a two-bit hustler on the street corners, I never get tired. And, I am addicted to the game.
[quote]
I do not intend to be mean spirited. My impression is that your belief is earnest and faithful. I just disagree with you. So let’s agree to disagree. I’m not more going to make you reject the Catholic Church (not that that’s my goal) than you are going to have me attending Mass next Sunday. Fair enough?[/quote]
No worry, I don’t think you do mean to. Again, I can’t agree to disagree. However, I do respect your opinion, I, in no way, intend to disrespect that or force you out of your opinion. No doubt, and I hope we can have further discussion.
One more word, just so it is understood. I wasn’t raised in the Catholic Church, I actually disliked the Catholic Church for awhile. However, I was open to the Catholic Church (I didn’t accept that it was, but if I could reason for myself that it was, then by all means I would intend to join) being the true Church of Jesus Christ. I studied, I talked to people, I prayed, and I came to an understanding that the Catholic Church was the true Church. And, I joined. My conversion didn’t happen until half way through my classes, so I was still a heathen (and am to a point, now) after I had made the choice to fully be part of the Church.
And, I still give credit to St. Mary to bringing me to the Church, I call her my broker.
And, I still give credit to St. Mary to bringing me to the Church, I call her my broker.[/quote]
Why do you give credit to Mary? Why not God himself?[/quote]
You think I do not give glory to G-d for the grace he gave me? Did G-d not create his own Mother? Isn’t it not because of his power, that he answers her requests?
[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:
What I find fascinating about the Catholic Church is it’s complete role reversal. It went from defender of the West, to the exact opposite. It almost seems bent on destroying the West through it’s support of tidal waves of immigration, and promoting exploding birth rates in the non-Western world.
Frankly, it’s as much an enemy as Islam is.[/quote]
What in the world are you talking about?[/quote]
Every time I see a report as it relates to illegal immigration into the US or Europe, there’s usually a Father, Bishop, whatever leading the charge.
[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:
What I find fascinating about the Catholic Church is it’s complete role reversal. It went from defender of the West, to the exact opposite. It almost seems bent on destroying the West through it’s support of tidal waves of immigration, and promoting exploding birth rates in the non-Western world.
Frankly, it’s as much an enemy as Islam is.[/quote]
What in the world are you talking about?[/quote]
Every time I see a report as it relates to illegal immigration into the US or Europe, there’s usually a Father, Bishop, whatever leading the charge. [/quote]
[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:
The point is the Church is a 5th Column in the West. [/quote]
5th column, you mean like ethnic groups inside Soviet Russia? How nice of you to use such a term.
As well, your point is based on anecdotal evidence? I am supposed to rely on your anecdotal evidence?
If anything the Church is the only thing that will save the West, after all we’re about the only one’s that hold to the dignity of humans and Natural Law anymore.
If you wish to know what the Church believes, I will show you:
[quote]
“The Church recognizes this right in every human person, in its dual aspect of the possibility to leave one’s country and the possibility to enter another country to look for better conditions of life” (Message for World Day of Migration 2001, 3; cf. John XXIII, Encyclical Mater et Magistra, 30; Paul VI, Encyclical Octogesima adveniens, 17). At the same time, States have the right to regulate migration flows and to defend their own frontiers, always guaranteeing the respect due to the dignity of each and every human person. Immigrants, moreover, have the duty to integrate into the host Country, respecting its laws and its national identity."[/quote]
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.
Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.
[/quote]I don’t think I can disagree with this as stated here. Certainly a Christian nation would voluntarily operate pretty much along these lines. A blessed nation should offer to share that blessing with those who would constructively integrate and perpetuate it. This does not mean casting their pearls before swine and throwing the gates open to those who would injure their society.
EDIT: I didn’t see your second post before posting mine Chris.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.
Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.
[/quote]I don’t think I can disagree with this as stated here. Certainly a Christian nation would voluntarily operate pretty much along these lines. A blessed nation should offer to share that blessing with those who would constructively integrate and perpetuate it. This does not mean casting their pearls before swine and throwing the gates open to those who would injure their society.
EDIT: I didn’t see your second post before posting mine Chris.[/quote]
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
5th column, you mean like ethnic groups inside Soviet Russia? How nice of you to use such a term.
As well, your point is based on anecdotal evidence? I am supposed to rely on your anecdotal evidence?
If anything the Church is the only thing that will save the West, after all we’re about the only one’s that hold to the dignity of humans and…[/quote]
That’s interesting, and thank you for posting that. Too bad it’s essentially ignored. Ex: Cardinal Mahony in LA who directed those under him to break the laws of the US and assist illegal invaders.
Save the West? By supporting the invasion of it by the 3rd World? The West will only survive by the way it was built. Guns, Germs and Steel.
5th Column: A group of people who clandestinely undermine a larger group, such as a nation, from within.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
5th column, you mean like ethnic groups inside Soviet Russia? How nice of you to use such a term.
As well, your point is based on anecdotal evidence? I am supposed to rely on your anecdotal evidence?
If anything the Church is the only thing that will save the West, after all we’re about the only one’s that hold to the dignity of humans and…[/quote]
That’s interesting, and thank you for posting that. Too bad it’s essentially ignored. Ex: Cardinal Mahony in LA who directed those under him to break the laws of the US and assist illegal invaders.
Save the West? By supporting the invasion of it by the 3rd World? The West will only survive by the way it was built. Guns, Germs and Steel.[/quote]
I’m not talking about those who go against what the Church teaches, I am talking about the faithful Catholics that stick to what has been taught the passed 2000 years. The hard thing about something that has been around basically 2000 years, or even since someone has been alive is that they take it for absolute granted.
I haven’t listened to the Church my whole life (likely reason I do not take it for granted), this is a new thing for me. So, I have studied almost exclusively in my spare time (to catch up for the two decades I never heard a word about it) what the Church teaches (what the Church teaches, not what progressive Catholic priests have to say). Those who listen to what the Church actually says (the Pope and those Bishops who are in union with the Pope) will stifle progressive movements and will keep conservative minds alive (after all we’re supposed to believe something 2000 years old, what’s more conservative than that).
I know, I giving a jab because of the racist connotations of the term 5th column by Soviet Russia.
The other day, I read about how Einstein would seem like a quack to a regular person in the Quotes thread. Well, I decided to do some reading on Einstein, and I found something very clear this famous Jew, who tussled with the G-d of Abraham and the Church itself, said about the Church:
[quote]Albert Einstein said this about the Church:
â??Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but, no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeksâ?¦.
Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitlerâ??s campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly.â??
Albert Einstein, Time magazine, 23rd December, 1940 p.[/quote]
I can’t help but think that you believe I have alterior motives. I do not. Obviously I disagree with the Catholic Church, but I do not have any ill feelings towards you.
I wanted to ask you:
It has been said by some Protestants that the Whore of Babylon in Revelation is the Catholic Church. As a Catholic I know you reject that idea. So do you have an idea who or what the Whore of Babylon is?
