[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
Let’s go back to this one though; you have big problem. And to answer the question of why the issue of the Peter not being the first pope is so important- Of course it’s because this mistaken belief is the foundation of the whole hierarchical structure.
No Jesus didn’t. Simon was already also called Peter when Jesus first met him:
And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. (Mat 4:18)
[/quote]
Ah, we are running into translation problems now:
“While walking by the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon (who is called Peter) and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea, for they were fishermen.
(Matthew 4:18 ESV)”
In the ESV translation, you see the “who is called Peter” in the present tense while the rest of the sentence is past tense.[/quote]
Do you know which Greek manuscript the ESV is based on? I can tell you that the KJV translators had it available, and rejected it.
Jesus was making a play on words. “thou art Peter[a small stone], and upon this rock[a huge rock] I will build my church;” But you don’t need to go back to the Greek to get this, just note the grammar. If Christ meant Peter is the rock His church was to be built on, he would’ve said- and upon thee I will build my church. One of the reasons the KJV translators used thee, thou, and -th endings, is because this form of English more accurately translates Greek tense. It was not because they lived in Shakespeare’s time, and everybody talked like that. If you read their dedicatory you can see this plainly. It does not contain this type of speech, though it was written during the same time period.
Do you think it’s possible Christ would make Peter the foundation of His church, and then, only a few verses later rebuke him saying- “Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.” (Mat 16:23KJV)???
[quote]pat wrote: Peter spoke first saying:
“And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, Ã?¢??Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
(Acts 15:7 ESV)”
James merely added to it. Acts 15 makes no indication what so ever, that James presided over Peter in the matter. He simply put the exclamation on Peter’s proclamation.
[/quote]
Yes, James let the others give their opinions first, just as anyone heading up a meeting might do, then he made is decision- “my sentence is this”.
[quote]pat and chen wrote: Once Paul even had to rebuke Peter:
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. (Gal 2:11)
Which means nothing. Why wouldn’t Paul or any other apostle be able to rebuke Peter? Peter was just a man after all, nor did he claim to be perfect. Peter did correct his mistake anyway, either by Paul’s rebuke or the dream he had in Acts.
Peter also warned about Paul’s letters being misunderstood and misused:
“as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
(2 Peter 3:16 ESV)”
Peter was the one who replaced Judas among the 12. He was also the first to speak and proclaim Jesus. Who but a person with the authority to do so, could do so?[/quote]
He did not replace Judas, Matthias did, see Acts 1:26.
He was not the first to proclaim Jesus. They all did together at Pentacost in Acts Ch 2:
But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: (Act 2:14 KJV)
Pat, you have made some mistakes that plain reading of the bible would correct. I’m really not trying to gloat at all, it does nothing for me to point out your errors above. I would have just as willingly written this info up for you as a PM that no one else would see. I sincerely recommend you simply read your bible by yourself, and stop reading Roman Catholic websites.
I wonder is this is by accident? LOL!!!