[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Nevertheless, to be fully mother and wive it is meant spiritually. Children are necessary, but as I am sure you can figure out they don’t have to be your biological children. [/quote]
That’s good. Since it appears that it’s tied to the Catholic view of salvation, I wanted to make sure childless people weren’t pitied or outcast.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Oh, and here is another quote for realizing what today is, “Unless there is a Good Friday in your life, there can be no Easter Sunday.”[/quote]
Very true! And a good defense for Judas. He was just a necessary actor on the divine stage. Perhaps you’re right and it’s similar to the ‘womens place’ issue we are talking about. Maybe if we step back, we can see that its all part of the divine plan NOW for women to come into their own. The Biblical version is OK too of course…when it works and two are tango-ing.
I will be spending the rest of the day making sammiches…oh no…I’m making the Easter Feast for company tomorrow. Happy Easter! Peace! It’s all good!
[/quote]
Don’t say necessary, tirib might get upset.
There is no defense for Judas, by his own free will he choose to betray his friend. As it was said, better for him to never be born.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
See what you get for your efforts Chris? BTW, If folks will ever take my advice and look here http://forums.catholic.com/ they will find this lady’s very ungodly view well represented by the Catholic (almost forgot that big C again) women there.
Her view is certainly not the Catholic(got it first try that time) view, but that’s the point I’ve been trying to gently send to dearest Christopher who has thus far heroically resisted my every stalwart effort at advancing his understanding in the area of authority. I will not however be swayed or grow faint. Brother Chris is my homey and I will plod forward in my quest to see the purpose of the glorious risen Christ fully manifested in his life. (take this as very serious Chris, with a splash of tongue in cheek, stirred not shaken)[/quote]
To make a point, forums.catholic.com is not a primary source on the doctrines, dogmas, and disciplines of the Catholic Church. If you want a primary source of what Catholics believe, read this:
I know its long, but unless you want to go through all the documents for 2000 (encyclicals, councils, the Fathers, &c.) years it is a pretty good condensed resource for understanding what we believe. As a side note, the Catechism doesn’t have much in the way of argument. It’s basically, a Q&A document.
You ARE gonna get this Brother Chris and it ain’t gonna be pretty when you do. I stand 200% by my assertion that is the very best place on earth I know of to learn about CatholicISM until the Church begins to actually exist as more than some canons, catechisms, encyclicals and bulls. 2nd Corinthians 2:1-3 ESV [quote]1-Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? 2-You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. 3-And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. >>>[/quote]Tell me what the apostle is saying and if you get it right? I am asking you a simple, legitimate, non combative question. Please tell me on a scale of one to ten how faithfully your Church has and IS manifesting this ENORMOUSLY important principle from Nicea to the present. This is the “bride of Christ” Christopher isn’t it? By your own declaration your “mother” by command of the Son of God Himself. Should be an easy question to answer. I am not being sarcastic I assure you. Please give us a historical ten scale assessment of your mother’s parenting skills over the last 1700 years. I am asking you as one man who loves Jesus to another man who loves Jesus. (that’s not sarcastic either btw)
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
You ARE gonna get this Brother Chris and it ain’t gonna be pretty when you do. I stand 200% by my assertion that is the very best place on earth I know of to learn about CatholicISM until the Church begins to actually exist as more than some canons, catechisms, encyclicals and bulls. 2nd Corinthians 2:1-3 ESV
[/quote]
So, you’re saying that a secondary source is better than a primary source?
Your latter statements are non-sequitors, how is it relevant to the fact that forum.catholic.com is a much a source of what Catholics believe as T-Nation.com is a source of what Catholics believe?
It’s a place for civil discourse not catechesis.
As a Catholic, not a protestant, we believe what the Universal (Catholic) Church believes. Thus, we form our minds to the mind of Christ; not make up what we believe by our own private interpretation when reading only a partial piece of the deposit of faith given to us by Jesus Christ himself and his Apostles.
You are being evasive and I can only very calmly, and respectfully repeat “as one man who loves Jesus to another man who loves Jesus. Verbatim. (that’s still NOT sarcastic either btw)”:
You ARE gonna get this Brother Chris and it ain’t gonna be pretty when you do. I stand 200% by my assertion that is the very best place on earth I know of to learn about CatholicISM until the Church begins to actually exist as more than some canons, catechisms, encyclicals and bulls. 2nd Corinthians 2:1-3 ESV [quote]1-Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? 2-You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. 3-And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. >>>[/quote]Tell me what the apostle is saying and if you get it right? I am asking you a simple, legitimate, non combative question. Please tell me on a scale of one to ten how faithfully your Church has and IS manifesting this ENORMOUSLY important principle from Nicea to the present. This is the “bride of Christ” Christopher isn’t it? By your own declaration your “mother” by command of the Son of God Himself. Should be an easy question to answer. I am not being sarcastic I assure you. Please give us a historical ten scale assessment of your mother’s parenting skills over the last 1700 years. I am asking you as one man who loves Jesus to another man who loves Jesus. (that’s not sarcastic either btw)
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Once again Tirib, what and how you write is an abject lesson in misogyny. I stand by my statement 100%, and the more you protest how misunderstood you are, the deeper the hole you dig. No one has said men weren’t to blame for how things are at the moment, since men were in charge since the beginning of time to keep half of the world’s population under yoke with a variety of political and religious systems, till they said ‘no more’.
Your solution? More of the same. Funny how you can’t accept how men that don’t subscribe to your world view can espouse the same values towards women that you profess, along with the added bonus of seeing and treating them as equals. Funny how your whole diatribe doesn’t include one single word about how women may feel, how you don’t say whether you apologized to your wife for your behaviour and begged for her forgiveness FIRST. Which I certainly hope you did, and probably did do…but not a word.
It’s all about YOU. Even when you say we men are to blame, not one single word about women and how they may have seen the world, and wanted change. Not…one. Like I said, you’re invested in a chattel and property viewpoint.
Misogynistic and myopic. [/quote]
And it seems that this thread is being very selfishly hijacked for self promotion… Which pisses me off because there are good people asking good questions and engaging in good polite discussion. And that is being lost to hubris and self promotion. Grrrr.
Says the coward hiding behind the ignore button LOL!. Knock it off Pat. Be a man for a change and come out here and address me directly. GRRRR he says LOL!!!
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Once again Tirib, what and how you write is an abject lesson in misogyny. I stand by my statement 100%, and the more you protest how misunderstood you are, the deeper the hole you dig. No one has said men weren’t to blame for how things are at the moment, since men were in charge since the beginning of time to keep half of the world’s population under yoke with a variety of political and religious systems, till they said ‘no more’.
Your solution? More of the same. Funny how you can’t accept how men that don’t subscribe to your world view can espouse the same values towards women that you profess, along with the added bonus of seeing and treating them as equals. Funny how your whole diatribe doesn’t include one single word about how women may feel, how you don’t say whether you apologized to your wife for your behaviour and begged for her forgiveness FIRST. Which I certainly hope you did, and probably did do…but not a word.
It’s all about YOU. Even when you say we men are to blame, not one single word about women and how they may have seen the world, and wanted change. Not…one. Like I said, you’re invested in a chattel and property viewpoint.
Misogynistic and myopic. [/quote]
And it seems that this thread is being very selfishly hijacked for self promotion… Which pisses me off because there are good people asking good questions and engaging in good polite discussion. And that is being lost to hubris and self promotion. Grrrr.[/quote]
Sorry Pat my bad, I will leave you to your thread so you can argue (I mean discuss) with Trib.
[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:<<< Sorry Pat my bad, I will leave you to your thread so you can argue (I mean discuss) with Trib.[/quote]He won’t do that. He’s had me on ignore since last year when I caught him red handed in what was then his latest lie about me.
[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:<<< Sorry Pat my bad, I will leave you to your thread so you can argue (I mean discuss) with Trib.[/quote]He won’t do that. He’s had me on ignore since last year when I caught him red handed in what was then his latest lie about me.
[/quote]
And you guys will realize that this sort of pointless discussion does not not further Christianity when?
[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:<<< Sorry Pat my bad, I will leave you to your thread so you can argue (I mean discuss) with Trib.[/quote]He won’t do that. He’s had me on ignore since last year when I caught him red handed in what was then his latest lie about me.
[/quote]
And you guys will realize that this sort of pointless discussion does not not further Christianity when?[/quote]
Just couldn’t resist could ya Zeb, Oh well Happy Easter.
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Once again Tirib, what and how you write is an abject lesson in misogyny. I stand by my statement 100%, and the more you protest how misunderstood you are, the deeper the hole you dig. No one has said men weren’t to blame for how things are at the moment, since men were in charge since the beginning of time to keep half of the world’s population under yoke with a variety of political and religious systems, till they said ‘no more’.
Your solution? More of the same. Funny how you can’t accept how men that don’t subscribe to your world view can espouse the same values towards women that you profess, along with the added bonus of seeing and treating them as equals. Funny how your whole diatribe doesn’t include one single word about how women may feel, how you don’t say whether you apologized to your wife for your behaviour and begged for her forgiveness FIRST. Which I certainly hope you did, and probably did do…but not a word.
It’s all about YOU. Even when you say we men are to blame, not one single word about women and how they may have seen the world, and wanted change. Not…one. Like I said, you’re invested in a chattel and property viewpoint.
Misogynistic and myopic. [/quote]
And it seems that this thread is being very selfishly hijacked for self promotion… Which pisses me off because there are good people asking good questions and engaging in good polite discussion. And that is being lost to hubris and self promotion. Grrrr.[/quote]
Sorry Pat my bad, I will leave you to your thread so you can argue (I mean discuss) with Trib.[/quote]
No no… Your fine. You didn’t do anything wrong. You are more than welcome to stay…
[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:<<< Sorry Pat my bad, I will leave you to your thread so you can argue (I mean discuss) with Trib.[/quote]He won’t do that. He’s had me on ignore since last year when I caught him red handed in what was then his latest lie about me.
[/quote]
And you guys will realize that this sort of pointless discussion does not not further Christianity when?[/quote]
Just couldn’t resist could ya Zeb, Oh well Happy Easter.[/quote]
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
You are being evasive and I can only very calmly, and respectfully repeat “as one man who loves Jesus to another man who loves Jesus. Verbatim. (that’s still NOT sarcastic either btw)”: [/quote]
No you’re being subversive, you haven’t answered why something that’s function is civil discourse (which like this site, fails at–to a lesser degree) is a good place to know what the deposit of faith that we’re obliged to believe and hold is, since I couldn’t even bring myself to use it as a secondary source except to show the wide deficit that is called Catechesis in America (at least among non-Catholics). Tirib, you do not get to change the definition of Catholicism and they point and say its wrong. You have to actually take what Catholicism is, and show it from there. Otherwise, it is nothing more than a straw man.
I believe or hold everything in the Catechism. I can’t explain it all with deep intellectual rigor. Some of it I just have a few simple arguments to back it up. However, if you do not believe what the Church puts forth for you to believe and you do not hold what the Church puts forth for you to hold, that is called heresy (there is two distinct forms of heresy: formal or material).
If you do not believe what the Universal Christians believe, you have removed yourself from the catholicity of Christendom (that which is believed by Christians in all places, in all times, everywhere). By removing yourself from this, you have stepped into the shoes of Adam, choosing to believe that God really does what Satan talks about in Gen 3:4-5, he basically lied and doesn’t have our best interest in mind. Saying that God really didn’t give us a visible bulwark and pillar of a Church to witness and teach the Truth, which the gates (or the provinces) of hell will not prevail against because of the hand of Jesus. You’re saying that Jesus said this…then let the provinces of hell take over the Church anyway. Blaspheme!
[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:<<< Sorry Pat my bad, I will leave you to your thread so you can argue (I mean discuss) with Trib.[/quote]He won’t do that. He’s had me on ignore since last year when I caught him red handed in what was then his latest lie about me.
[/quote]
And you guys will realize that this sort of pointless discussion does not not further Christianity when?[/quote]
Just couldn’t resist could ya Zeb, Oh well Happy Easter.[/quote]
I continue to ask as one man who loves Jesus to another man who loves Jesus:
Corinthians 2:1-3 ESV[quote]1-Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? 2-You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. 3-And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. >>>[/quote]Tell me what the apostle is saying and if you get it right? I am asking you a simple, legitimate, non combative question. Please tell me on a scale of one to ten how faithfully your Church has and IS manifesting this ENORMOUSLY important principle from Nicea to the present. This is the “bride of Christ” Christopher isn’t it? By your own declaration your “mother” by command of the Son of God Himself. Should be an easy question to answer. I am not being sarcastic I assure you. Please give us a historical ten scale assessment of your mother’s parenting skills over the last 1700 years. I am asking you yet again as one man who loves Jesus to another man who loves Jesus.(that’s not sarcastic either btw)[/i] I am unequipped to ask this question in a more civil and sincere manner than I am now for the third time in two pages.
Here’s a clue. I KNOW that multitudes of the Catholics in those forums are abysmal representatives of Christ AND entirely unfaithful to your Church. Like Pat. THAT is the point. I have never seen so much division in my life. Stop trying to prove to me that they are not representative of Catholic doctrine and or dogma. I know that. What are you afraid of? Do you think I’m smarter than you are? Or a better debater? I don’t, but even if I were you have the holy mother Church and I’m a deceived heretic. God’s truth will prevail. Please answer my question. Any other Catholics are welcome to answer as well btw.
Jesus did say the Gospel would bring division even among family members. However, let it be known that you are either with us completely on doctrine or you’re not. Those who aren’t can fool themselves only for so long before the Gospel being preached will make them leave the Church. There is a reason why ex-Catholics are the second largest religious group in the United States after Catholics.
I continue to ask as one man who loves Jesus to another man who loves Jesus:
Corinthians 2:1-3 ESV[quote]1-Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? 2-You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. 3-And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. >>>[/quote]Tell me what the apostle is saying and if you get it right? I am asking you a simple, legitimate, non combative question. Please tell me on a scale of one to ten how faithfully your Church has and IS manifesting this ENORMOUSLY important principle from Nicea to the present. This is the “bride of Christ” Christopher isn’t it? By your own declaration your “mother” by command of the Son of God Himself. Should be an easy question to answer. I am not being sarcastic I assure you. Please give us a historical ten scale assessment of your mother’s parenting skills over the last 1700 years. I am asking you yet again as one man who loves Jesus to another man who loves Jesus.(that’s not sarcastic either btw)[/i] I am unequipped to ask this question in a more civil and sincere manner than I am now for the FOURTH time in two pages.
Here’s a clue. I KNOW that multitudes of the Catholics in those forums are abysmal representatives of Christ AND entirely unfaithful to your Church. Like Pat. THAT is the point. I have never seen so much division in my life. Stop trying to prove to me that they are not representative of Catholic doctrine and or dogma. I know that. What are you afraid of? Do you think I’m smarter than you are? Or a better debater? I don’t, but even if I were you have the holy mother Church and I’m a deceived heretic. God’s truth will prevail. Please answer my question. Any other Catholics are welcome to answer as well btw.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I continue to ask as one man who loves Jesus to another man who loves Jesus:
Corinthians 2:1-3 ESV[quote]1-Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? 2-You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. 3-And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. >>>[/quote]Tell me what the apostle is saying and if you get it right? I am asking you a simple, legitimate, non combative question. Please tell me on a scale of one to ten how faithfully your Church has and IS manifesting this ENORMOUSLY important principle from Nicea to the present. This is the “bride of Christ” Christopher isn’t it? By your own declaration your “mother” by command of the Son of God Himself. Should be an easy question to answer. I am not being sarcastic I assure you. Please give us a historical ten scale assessment of your mother’s parenting skills over the last 1700 years. I am asking you yet again as one man who loves Jesus to another man who loves Jesus.(that’s not sarcastic either btw)[/i] I am unequipped to ask this question in a more civil and sincere manner than I am now for the FOURTH time in two pages.
Here’s a clue. I KNOW that multitudes of the Catholics in those forums are abysmal representatives of Christ AND entirely unfaithful to your Church. Like Pat. THAT is the point. I have never seen so much division in my life. Stop trying to prove to me that they are not representative of Catholic doctrine and or dogma. I know that. What are you afraid of? Do you think I’m smarter than you are? Or a better debater? I don’t, but even if I were you have the holy mother Church and I’m a deceived heretic. God’s truth will prevail. Please answer my question. Any other Catholics are welcome to answer as well btw. [/quote]
What does this have to do with that forum.catholic.com is not a primary source of Catholic belief?
