Canadian Election

[quote]blam wrote:
Any comments now that the platforms have been released for the liberals and NDP? I am waiting to see how the economics of the conservative plan pan out personally.

Everyone makes a bunch of promises but what I care about is were the MONEY TO PAY FOR THOSE PROMISES will come from.

Personally I like the Liberal plan better then the NDP. It gets a lot done but still leaves us w/ enough surplus to cover our ass if something goes wrong and not screw over future goverements/generations. I wish they wouild give a few more dollars to greening up our economy and such but I can’t really complain.

From my understanding the NDP is planning to use every dime of the surplus buffer that the liberals have created to pay for their promises. This just doesnt seem smart as deficits are a slippery slope once you go down that road.

Like I said, any input would be cool as I am still deciding.[/quote]

First of all what fucking surplus, we spend about half of all collected tax revenue SERVICING our debt, meaning paying the interest accrued by our debt without even touching the principle, so you tell me how we can have a “budget surplus”? seems to me we should be tightening our belts even more.

Secondly every party promises the moon this time of year and how often have these promises been fulfilled? remember Jean Chretiens little red book? People need to stop voting on the grounds of what benefits them personally and think about the good of a nation, if our debt was lower a larger proportion of monies collected could be actually put to use or we could lower taxes but thats more of a pipe dream.

For instance in the eighties when albertas economy wasnt so hot and Ralph cut and slashed all sorts of spending, got us balanced and implemented a debt repayment plan, now we’re all but debt free and our newfound financial windfalls can be used to beef up social services.

In case you couldnt guess im voting conservative, and please could all other voters ignore the scare tactics. This isnt Germany circa 1930’s so give the hard issues more weight than the soft ones; gay marriage (I support by the way) is a non-issue, abortion wont be touched and kyoto is meaningless (the U.S has reduced their emissions more than we have and they havent ratified).

The only way to keep a government honest is to have them fear for their jobs. MAKE THE LIBERALS PAY

[quote]J.Boogie wrote:

People need to stop voting on the grounds of what benefits them personally and think about the good of a nation, if our debt was lower a larger proportion of monies collected could be actually put to use or we could lower taxes but thats more of a pipe dream.

[/quote]

I say this exact thing every election. Unfortunately, everyone seems to have a “me” issue that takes precedence.

The country needs a balanced budget, with accumulated debt paydown, it needs some unity or at least amity between regions and it needs to inculcate guiding principles that lead to honest and ethical government by both elected officials and the permanent career employees within all the various departments.

I don’t know that any party is going to deliver this, but one of these days I’m either going to run for office within one of the current parties or I’ll found a new one that would.

[Edit: I toyed with this idea during my university days, founding the mythical Canadian National Party, complete with a small platform.]

If I wasn’t a woman I would pursue politics as well. Provincial though, not federal.

[quote]CaptainLogic wrote:

[…]

Oh and btw, the liberals are running an Islamist candidate with sympathies for the terrorist groups Hizbollah and Hamas in the Mississauga riding, just thought you should know. He’s also in favour of implementing Shari’a law for Muslims in Ontario.

Have a nice day![/quote]

  1. The state of Hizbollah and Hamas as “terrorist groups” is highly oversimple – not to mention completely irrelevant, unless this guy is bound to be Foreign Minister.

  2. However, his support for Shari’a law is certainly relevant and scary. Considering the “Shari’a law” bill was struck down in Queen’s Park, I find Harper’s overt support for the Iraq war, his irrational objection to same-sex marriage, and his determination to dismantle the highly-effective Liberal budget plan [1] and health care system to be even scarier.

-Glee


[1] I thought the right wing was supposed to be good at managing the economy?

[quote]towner24 wrote:
JPBear wrote:
No matter what happens on election night, I will go to bed happy if Stronach looses her riding.

Agreed[/quote]

Why? The Canadian parliamentary system is designed to allow MPs to represent their constituencies in a national forum. Stronach was elected because her constituents wanted her to represent them. If she decided that she needed to switch to the Liberal party to best represent her constituents, that was her decision.

Practically, we Canadians vote for a party, but we’re meant to vote for individual MPs.

-Glee

[quote]blam wrote:
Any comments now that the platforms have been released for the liberals and NDP? I am waiting to see how the economics of the conservative plan pan out personally.

[/quote]

Martin seems intent to keep the current Liberal plan on track, which is a pretty sound idea overall. The NDP is playing the role it always has – moral conscience of the parliament. However, with increased popularity, Leyton’s doing a decent job of becoming a little more realistic, IMO.

This is one of the reasons I’m personally hoping for another Liberal minority – the Liberals have done a fantastic job of cleaning up Mulroney’s giant mess in the economy, while moving the budget into positive balance WHILE supporting the typically-Canadian slight-left ideals.

Agreed. What I like about the NDP is that, as a party that hasn’t been in power for a while, they represent the Canadian wish-list of sorts, from which the Liberals can pick and chose what they can afford in their (debatably) reasonable budget.

See above. I wouldn’t want an NDP majority, but I definitely like the NDP in the role of opposition in a majority, swing party in a minority. Since it’s doubtful that the NDP is going to win the majority this time around, they’re getting my vote.

[quote]

Like I said, any input would be cool as I am still deciding.[/quote]

HTH!

-Glee

[quote]Nigglit wrote:
Conservative all the way, but they’re all corrupt IMO … might as well vote for a NEW kind of corruption :wink: [/quote]

I can respect that kind of cynicm =D However, the connies aren’t only new corruption – they’re a threat to the budget and to Canadian sovereignty. The idea of MORE conservatism in North America than already exists scares the CRAP out of me. If you want some conservatism, you should borrow some from the surfeit in the USA :wink:

-Glee

[quote]FlawlessCowboy wrote:
Well, I’ll throw it out there, I guess…

Ralph Goodale is from my neck of the woods, and I do like the guy. He’ll most likely be getting my vote again. I wouldn’t mind if he was running the show, but I don’t think that will ever happen.

-FC[/quote]

Sadly, I agree with you. I’ve always been a Liberal at heart, but Paul Martin is a slimeball. I wish John Manley was the Liberal leader – he’s one of the few politicians I believe is/was a genuinely good person.

-Glee

[quote]towner24 wrote:

Minority governments are still fairly new to Canadians, but we better get used to making them work.[/quote]

I certainly hope we would. Majority governments are nothing more than mob rule. I wish we had dozens of poitical parties and perpetual coalition governments like the Netherlands.

-Glee

I like Paul Martin. I score full marks for being in power during a budget surplus and paying down of debt. Besides, he knows Bono. Game over.

As far as choosing amongst possible evils, I go for the known ones first. I’d like see someone determine who the lesser of the evils really is. Besides, Paul Martin knows Bono. The game is over.

[quote]Gleemonex wrote:
towner24 wrote:
JPBear wrote:
No matter what happens on election night, I will go to bed happy if Stronach looses her riding.

Agreed

Why? The Canadian parliamentary system is designed to allow MPs to represent their constituencies in a national forum. Stronach was elected because her constituents wanted her to represent them. If she decided that she needed to switch to the Liberal party to best represent her constituents, that was her decision.

Practically, we Canadians vote for a party, but we’re meant to vote for individual MPs.
[/quote]

I don’t agree with your assessment of what we’re “supposed” to do. How can you vote for an individual MP if you don’t know them?

If you don’t know them personally, you have to get a feeling for what they stand for from the positions they state that they hold. The party they are running with tells you something about the canditate - and if you run conservative, conservative people will want to hear what you have to say.

When Stronach ran conservative, and stood in front of the cameras agreeing with the party ideals, many conservatives voted for her. Not because she was personally known to them, but because they liked what she said she stood for (something they also believed).

You stating that Stronach switched sides to better represent the ideals of her constiuents is ludicrous. She switched sides for her own personal benefit.

The only arguement that makes any sense was that her constituents didn’t want an election (in truth, who really does?). She could have opposed the conservatives by becoming an independant - not leaving for a cabinent position.

She ran for the conservative leadership, lost, and switched into a liberal cabinet position when one was offered. She stands for nothing but self interest.

Out of curiousity, you know what she picked up in her cabinent portfolio? Cleaning up the Gomery mess in Quebec - she does not speak french.

If she loses, which I hope she does, it means that she betrayed her convertative minded constituents - which I believe she did.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Hey, I saw a negative ad from the liberals finally.

They suggested that since Harper won’t reveal the sources of his funding, that perhaps it came from the US!

Heh. Nice. Was it you Boston?[/quote]

Nah, I’m just a fan in this show.

Though it would be good to get $1.16 of influence for every $1 contributed…

[quote]towner24 wrote:
I don’t agree with your assessment of what we’re “supposed” to do. How can you vote for an individual MP if you don’t know them?
[/quote]

You should either get to know them, or not vote :wink:

I don’t claim that she’s 100% right or good – of course I can understand why people would be dismayed by Stronach’s changing of her stripes.

What I object to is that she’s demonised as if she’s the only politician ever to have done something selfish. As an attractive woman who isn’t necessarily the brightest bulb in the box, she makes an easy target. Surely there are more important matters to attend to?

-Glee

[quote]JPBear wrote:
CaptainLogic wrote:

PS Why do they annoy you?

Because the crux of their platform is this: we will reduce taxes on pedal bikes and tax everything that pollutes.

It sounds like something a ten-year-old came up with. Either that or a university student.[/quote]

I thought thats what most of their candidates were!

[quote]

First of all what fucking surplus, we spend about half of all collected tax revenue SERVICING our debt, meaning paying the interest accrued by our debt without even touching the principle, so you tell me how we can have a “budget surplus”? seems to me we should be tightening our belts even more. [/quote]

I can guarantee all future govts will have a “budget surplus”. They over-estimate the required money in their budget and voila “we didn’t spend it all”.

Thats great for a resource rich province like Alberta but I very seriously doubt it will work for the entire country. Where is all the money going to come from? Plus I don’t see any indication that the Alberta govt intends to “beef up” social programs. They’ll most likely give more tax breaks for companies to encourage industry. Albertans pay for health care, more in fact (if you are single) then the money good old Ralphie is giving back this year.

[quote]
gay marriage (I support by the way) is a non-issue, abortion wont be touched and kyoto is meaningless (the U.S has reduced their emissions more than we have and they havent ratified).

The only way to keep a government honest is to have them fear for their jobs. MAKE THE LIBERALS PAY[/quote]

I completely agree with this.

The only I don’t like about the Conservatives is the fact that they only offer tax breaks or credits. That lets the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Do you think someone on social assistance collects income tax, I don’t think so. And if your income is low there is only so much you can claim back. I’d probably vote for conservatives if they found a way to give the money to people up front. Like free transit, free health care, free gym memberships, etc. That way the benefit isn’t limited to people with income.

[quote]calgarynewf wrote:

The only I don’t like about the Conservatives is the fact that they only offer tax breaks or credits. That lets the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Do you think someone on social assistance collects income tax, I don’t think so. And if your income is low there is only so much you can claim back. I’d probably vote for conservatives if they found a way to give the money to people up front. Like free transit, free health care, free gym memberships, etc. That way the benefit isn’t limited to people with income.

[/quote]

The GST cut will benefit everyone who spends money.

[quote]JPBear wrote:
calgarynewf wrote:

The only I don’t like about the Conservatives is the fact that they only offer tax breaks or credits. That lets the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Do you think someone on social assistance collects income tax, I don’t think so. And if your income is low there is only so much you can claim back. I’d probably vote for conservatives if they found a way to give the money to people up front. Like free transit, free health care, free gym memberships, etc. That way the benefit isn’t limited to people with income.

The GST cut will benefit everyone who spends money.
[/quote]

But it won’t balance out with privatized healtcare. Plus its only a novel amount in NFLD where the total sales tax is currently 15%.

I think that the Greens, ndp and liberals will slice up the leftist vote and Harper will get in.

I like the NDP but they don’t have a chance to win. I dislike the Liberals but I hate the conservatives. This being said I think a small minority conservative government wouldn’t be that terrible. If they fuck up they will get toasted like the liberals did. It would be great if all the sides were forced to work together.

If Gils Ducieppe weren’t a seperatist I think he would make a great leader. From what I’ve heard of the leaders debates he is defanitely the most intelligent of the bunch.

http://www.nationalreview.com/jos/osullivan200601191410.asp

January 19, 2006, 2:10 p.m.
“I?m a Lumberjack and I?m Okay”
The upcoming election in Canada.

Canadian politics is often said to be boring. Maybe this widespread American belief can be set down to the fact that Canada is America’s least-threatening neighbor. When Mexico, Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Cuba are your other neighbors, then Canada is bound to seem like the nation-state equivalent of a maiden aunt ? prissy and disapproving but no real trouble.

There is something in this, but it is not the whole story. In 1945 Canada was the world’s fourth-largest military power. Its soldiers, sailors, and airmen had played a major part on D-Day and in finally defeating Nazi Germany. And its national image was that of a tough, self-reliant, stand-up guy whom you would like on your side in a barroom brawl.

From 1945 to the present, the history and changing national image of Canada were brilliantly summed up in the Monty Python song that begins “I’m a lumberjack and I’m okay” and gradually develops into “I put on women’s clothing and hang around in bars.” In other words, not necessarily someone you would like on your side in a barroom brawl.

Trudeaupian Candadians

This new Canada was the child of Pierre Trudeau and the Canadian Liberal party. As the sprawling octopus of the government in power for most of the postwar period, they remade Canada in their own image: left-liberal in politics, tightly regulated in economics, welfarist in social policy, officially bilingual and multicultural as regards national identity, allied to the United Nations and the third world in foreign policy, and therefore self-consciously different from (and sometimes even hostile to) the U.S.

In one significant respect, however, the new Trudeaupian Canadians imitated America: They ditched their British-style parliamentary constitution and introduced an American constitution with both a Charter of Rights and Freedoms, broader and more collectivist than America’s Bill of Rights, and a U.S.-style Supreme Court to adjudicate and enforce it. By making the courts the all-but-final political authority, the Liberals were hoping to ensure that like-minded judges could continue to impose Trudeaupian liberal policies on Canada even during the brief intervals when they were out of office.

Such an interval may just be about to occur. Canada is holding a federal election next Monday, and most opinion polls show a lead of around 10-12 percent for the opposition Conservative party. In Canada’s multiparty system, that might not ensure a majority for the Tories. The opinion scores for the three main national parties ? 40 percent for the CPD, 30 percent for the ruling Liberals, and 16 percent for the left-wing National Democratic party ? could produce a range of results. But there is a strong prospect of a minority Tory government, and a lesser but real chance of an outright majority one.

“I’m a Scary Conservative with a Hidden Agenda”

The Liberals are going into overdrive to prevent this ? hurling a series of charges against the rising Tories. Their all-purpose portmanteau slander is that the Tories are a sinister force and are secretly planning a series of radical attacks on Canada’s current multicultural-welfare state. My distinguished columnar colleague, Mark Steyn, parodies this critique by offering Canadian visitors to his website t-shirts that read: “I’m a Scary Conservative with a Hidden Agenda.” But the Liberals have outdone even Mr. Steyn’s satire. Their latest television ad warned that the Tories intended to deploy the Canadian armed forces in urban areas, implying that they would be used not to help in Katrina-style emergencies but to impose martial law. This invited a raucous response from, among others, the Canadian military: “Where would we get the soldiers? Where would we get the guns?” asked one officer, who asked not to be named [by Canada’s National Post.] “Haven’t these guys been reading their own policies?” The ad was quickly withdrawn amid Liberal embarrassment. A Liberal flunkey remarked that “some idiot” had approved it. The Liberals’ embarrassment deepened when it became known that the “idiot” in question was the prime minister, Paul Martin.

The next Liberal tactic was to exploit Canada’s rich vein of anti-Americanism. Martin picked up a favorable reference by the Tory leader, Stephen Harper, to American conservatives ? and proceeded to embroider it darkly: “That’s what Stephen Harper means when he says it’s time for a change in Canada. Well, let me tell you something, Mr. Harper. That’s not the kind of change that Canadians want. America is our neighbor. It is not our nation.” Martin also picked a silly quarrel with the U.S. ambassador in order to be seen “standing up” to the U.S.

No Traction with Harper Horrors

Such posturing has left the voters unimpressed. They know Martin doesn?t really mean it since his and previous Liberal governments have happily cooperated with the U.S. on serious matters such as defense and cross-border trade. They also think it would be a bad thing if Martin did mean it since it might alienate Canada?s largest trading partner ? especially since the first faint signs of American irritation at these pinpricks have been lately observed.

As defeat has loomed, Martin?s Liberal party has unleashed a third and more interesting attack ? that Harper and the Tories might one day use the “notwithstanding” clause of the Canadian constitution that allows parliament in the last resort to overrule the Supreme Court by exempting a law from its constitutional review. Martin promises to abolish the clause in order to protect such recent judge-made law as same-sex marriage.

The issue is certainly important. Removing the notwithstanding clause would make the Supreme Court the sovereign political authority in Canada, outside the control of the voters. It would then be impossible for an elected government to repeal any Liberal policy of which the courts approved. Democracy would be replaced by judgeocracy.

It is usually hard to get the voters to pay regard to such apparently theoretical risks. On this occasion, however, a report commissioned by Ottawa has just pointed out, with exquisitely bad timing, that the courts might well interpret the Charter rules on marriage so as to legalize polygamy. Without a notwithstanding clause, no Canadian government could prevent such legalization. It is now the Liberals? turn to look “scary.”

At any rate, whatever the reason, their campaign of scares is visibly failing today. The Liberals, still reeling from a massive financial scandal of influence-buying in Quebec, are simply not a credible source for scares ? at least about other people. The voters ? who last year were frightened away from voting Tory by a similar last-minute scare campaign ? have had twelve months to become accustomed to the possibility of a Tory majority. It looks a good deal less “scary” than legalized polygamy.

Above all, the Tory leader, Stephen Harper, is not a very good candidate for demonization. He is a cerebral politician who has kept cool under the Liberal onslaught. He has fought a controlled campaign on a distinctly moderate conservative manifesto.

Too moderate, some would say, since the Tory manifesto concentrates on cleaning up government after the Liberal scandals, offers only modest tax cuts, is willing to offer the U.S. a “free vote” in parliament on joining a missile defense system (rather than supporting it outright), and proposes raft after raft of government assistance programs rather than a smaller state.

That said, the Tories also propose to rebuild Canada?s shrunken military, to retain the democratic safeguard of the notwithstanding clause, to strengthen border security against terrorists, to advance Canada?s interests by better relations with the U.S. rather than by pointless insults, and in general to revive the more vigorous Canada that existed before Trudeau.

Harper?s moderation is a recognition that the Canadians have become accustomed to the easy chair of subsidies and regulation. He knows that massive change would be rejected. So he is inviting modern Canada to take the first small steps back to economic independence, self-reliance, and national pride ? perhaps with more to follow as the patient grows stronger.

But is there still a lumberjack under all that mascara?

? John O’Sullivan