Can John Keep Drinking?

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]tmay11 wrote:
Cortes, I remember your posts from that thread.

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. John will definitely look into the program. [/quote]

I sure hope John finds what he is looking for in it. Please let me know if there is anything else you want to ask or talk about. I’m not around much, but I’ll keep an eye on this thread.

Good luck and God bless. [/quote]

You’re a good guy, Cortes. [/quote]

Not really.

He and I meet up occasionally, and he’s a real prick!

Ha ha ha!

Nah, Cortes is solid, and I’m happy to have him for a friend.[/quote]

Chushin just doesn’t like my old-man jokes. (^_^)v

My advice to John would be this:

Figure out (from past experience) what your point of ‘black-out’/oblivion is & start taking practical steps to help yourself never exceed (let’s say 75%) of that limit. This isn’t going to guarantee that you’ll never over do it on the booze, though, it can help to give you a certain layer of protection against yourself.

So…if you normally go out with 100 bucks, try going out with just 70, if you normally go to a house party with a full bottle of spirits try just going with two thirds of a bottle.

It’s easy, from the POV of a totally sober person to know just how drunk a certain amount of drink will likely make you, when you are drinking however, well, your inebriation gauge is DRUNK. Drunks give drunk advice!!! Find ways to remind yourself just how drunk you likely are, where that’s likely to lead you IE: BLACK-OUT!!! Falling over, not remembering if you did or said something stupid etc & regain contrrol.

Also, tell your main drinking buddies that you wanna cut down on the amount you chug through on the night, give yourself an additional layer of protection/pressure to help stop you going into: Eternal-optimist-fuck-it-another-one-won’t hurt-mode!

Good luck:)

Skysys- (mispelling your name I am sure)

I agree with your premise on AA. I also hate AA’s premise that you have to stop drinking. Its a shame there is not a program for those who want to drink less, but have no desire to quit.

I had a “friend” who was asked by his father in law to go to AA with him. My friend ended divorcing said daughter, and now drinks about 1/3 of what he did before.

My own personal experience is to figure out why you drink. I am sure the AA preachers would argue that you drink for the alcohol or what not. I drank to sleep, (80 hour weeks at work, 8 off between sixteens. Got home in the mornings to get screamed at, so my friend would burn a six pack to get 7 hours of rest, otherwise up all day only to risk falling asleep at work at night). For my friend, alcohol was an escape route. AA would suggest quiting drinking- My friend thought it was crap. My friend made changes in his life to remove stressors, and now doesn’t desire the bottle to escape reality.

My thoughts are that some people need the bottle for the bottle, and some people need a downer of some form, and the bottle is located at the corner store. My friend tried ambien, didn’t work, tried trazodone, and it was a worse feeling the next day then any hangover, and tried the bottle, worked good but would cause him to pay the piper in the end. Divorce for the win.

[quote]SHREDTODEATH wrote:
Damn I used to have Johns problem too. When i would blackout though i would do crazy shit fights, mad ramblings, police confrontation. I even “woke up” once hand cuffed to a hospital bed two police officers around me getting stitched up. How I finally got rid of johns problem was I quit drinking for like a year then when i drank again it didnt happen. I only drink once every 3-6 months now and i can drink as much as i want all night/morning without incident. I read somewhere about the chemicals in the body that metabolize alcohol and they are different chemicals depending on the frequency that one drinks, different chemicals change the affect of alcohol. Hope this helps john out. [/quote]

Similar here I gave up for 7 years and now have 1-2 drinks once a month or two at weddings etc or if a friend is cracking open a serious whiskey. For me a lot of it was that I just needed to grow up, hopefully OP this is the case with you. I recommend giving for up for something like 18 months then evaluate.

I also found that going to clubs and bars for a sustained period of time while sober gave me a big improvement in social perspective and confidence, and a healthy contempt for people who think they have to get shithoused on a regular basis.

[quote]ecjim wrote:
John was me many years ago, it will only get worse if he continues to drink. John needs AA / rehab what ever it take to quit drinking. I have now been 100% sober for 20+ years - no more blackouts[/quote]

Amen. 3 plus for me now. Couldn’t agree more. Take John to a meeting!

[quote]TheJonty wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Here is the expanded explanation. I certainly hope this helps you. If you WANT to quit, you CAN, and you DO NOT have to become a miserably sober wretch to do it.[/quote]

I’ve found I prefer myself sober to myself drinking, and I can still go out and have a reasonably good time (bit of an introvert and I dislike bars/clubs/etc, hence the “reasonably”). If anybody thinks they need to drink to be happy or to have a good time, I think that’s a sure sign of a problem.

Besides, I’m a weird enough person when I’m sober, I don’t need to compound it.[/quote]

Yeah I agree with that. Being sober should not be miserable! Tell DaMonty good for him for getting straightened out :slight_smile:

I think I had a couple of blackouts in the height of my party days but IMO it was a result of pure excessive guzzling. I read somewhere recently that black outs are caused by memories failing to be stored but in my case the memories eventually came back, piece by piece even if it was somewhat fragmented. Might have been the LSD and weed too :stuck_out_tongue:

Let me tell you all a little story about a guy I know…

He was a lot like the guy the OP described… at first. He was never very good at controlling his drinking, but didn’t usually get too far. But then it got worse. Started blacking out all the time, but didn’t give two shits. Not even when he was too shitfaced to remember losing his virginity. Not even when his borderline alcoholic friends started to tell him he’d gone too far. He got worse and started meddling with other things too. He vomited blood and had something resembling a seizure from drinking.

He started drinking every day, and would often measure his drinking by bottles instead of drinks. He did some things he would come to regret while drunk. Despite this, he was pretty functional and did good at school and work. But eventually something had to give. Significant life changes, partly relating to his addictive lifestyle forced changes. An addict always gets worse until it seriously comes back to bite him in the ass. Then he might just have a chance.

Luckily, he was willing to embrace the changes when the time came. He became friends with a lot of serious lifters who encouraged him to be his best self and achieve his potential in everything he could. He threw himself into his work and his workouts with great success. He became happier with his simple life than all the chemical happiness he’d ever had before could give him. He channeled his addictive nature into academics and the gym, and found it more intrinsically rewarding. He could even drink in actual moderation now! Things looked great, but unbeknownst to him, alcohol would hurt him again.

One night, he was randomly attacked by a couple of drunks with a weapon. He was not expecting to be attacked, but he fought them off. However, he sustained such serious injuries that he would probably have died if he had not received medical attention. His face is now scarred for life. What irony… He is presently keeping himself busy again. He likes this new, clean lifestyle.

I hope his story will help you come to a decision. He suffered a lot from alcohol, some at his own hands, and some at others. He does not regret anything, but I think his story is a testament to just how damaging of a substance it can be.

Can I just ask why we’re all talking like we’re SWIMmers on Bluelight? Alcohol abuse is still legal in most cases, so far as I am aware.

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Can I just ask why we’re all talking like we’re SWIMmers on Bluelight? Alcohol abuse is still legal in most cases, so far as I am aware. [/quote]
The name thing? OP started it. You and I have both linked to that thread I started a few years back so there’s not exactly a lot of ambiguity there, for me, anyways.

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]TheJonty wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Here is the expanded explanation. I certainly hope this helps you. If you WANT to quit, you CAN, and you DO NOT have to become a miserably sober wretch to do it.[/quote]

I’ve found I prefer myself sober to myself drinking, and I can still go out and have a reasonably good time (bit of an introvert and I dislike bars/clubs/etc, hence the “reasonably”). If anybody thinks they need to drink to be happy or to have a good time, I think that’s a sure sign of a problem.

Besides, I’m a weird enough person when I’m sober, I don’t need to compound it.[/quote]

Yeah I agree with that. Being sober should not be miserable! Tell DaMonty good for him for getting straightened out :)[/quote]
I’ll let him know.

I want to have sweet sensitive e-sex with the Avatars of DebraD & Apok~

[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
Skysys- (mispelling your name I am sure)

I agree with your premise on AA. I also hate AA’s premise that you have to stop drinking. Its a shame there is not a program for those who want to drink less, but have no desire to quit.

I had a “friend” who was asked by his father in law to go to AA with him. My friend ended divorcing said daughter, and now drinks about 1/3 of what he did before.

My own personal experience is to figure out why you drink. I am sure the AA preachers would argue that you drink for the alcohol or what not. I drank to sleep, (80 hour weeks at work, 8 off between sixteens. Got home in the mornings to get screamed at, so my friend would burn a six pack to get 7 hours of rest, otherwise up all day only to risk falling asleep at work at night). For my friend, alcohol was an escape route. AA would suggest quiting drinking- My friend thought it was crap. My friend made changes in his life to remove stressors, and now doesn’t desire the bottle to escape reality.

My thoughts are that some people need the bottle for the bottle, and some people need a downer of some form, and the bottle is located at the corner store. My friend tried ambien, didn’t work, tried trazodone, and it was a worse feeling the next day then any hangover, and tried the bottle, worked good but would cause him to pay the piper in the end. Divorce for the win.[/quote]

Thats good that your friend found a solution. I hope I wasn’t misleading in my post though. The intention was to direct him toward evaluation, not away from AA.

I will put meetings out there as an option 7 days a week and twice on Sunday for people who need to stop and stay sober, but can’t. It still works for me and I still attend meetings on a regular basis after 10+ years.

In that time I’ve just seen too many people who could use some help in one form or another turned off completely by people who were overzealous or heavy handed in delivering some news that virtually nobody wants to hear or accept.

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
Let me tell you all a little story about a guy I know…

He was a lot like the guy the OP described… at first. He was never very good at controlling his drinking, but didn’t usually get too far. But then it got worse. Started blacking out all the time, but didn’t give two shits. Not even when he was too shitfaced to remember losing his virginity. Not even when his borderline alcoholic friends started to tell him he’d gone too far. He got worse and started meddling with other things too. He vomited blood and had something resembling a seizure from drinking. He started drinking every day, and would often measure his drinking by bottles instead of drinks. He did some things he would come to regret while drunk. Despite this, he was pretty functional and did good at school and work. But eventually something had to give. Significant life changes, partly relating to his addictive lifestyle forced changes. An addict always gets worse until it seriously comes back to bite him in the ass. Then he might just have a chance.

Luckily, he was willing to embrace the changes when the time came. He became friends with a lot of serious lifters who encouraged him to be his best self and achieve his potential in everything he could. He threw himself into his work and his workouts with great success. He became happier with his simple life than all the chemical happiness he’d ever had before could give him. He channeled his addictive nature into academics and the gym, and found it more intrinsically rewarding. He could even drink in actual moderation now! Things looked great, but unbeknownst to him, alcohol would hurt him again.

One night, he was randomly attacked by a couple of drunks with a weapon. He was not expecting to be attacked, but he fought them off. However, he sustained such serious injuries that he would probably have died if he had not received medical attention. His face is now scarred for life. What irony… He is presently keeping himself busy again. He likes this new, clean lifestyle.

I hope his story will help you come to a decision. He suffered a lot from alcohol, some at his own hands, and some at others. He does not regret anything, but I think his story is a testament to just how damaging of a substance it can be.[/quote]

Respect to your “friend.”[/quote]

It is very much appreciated. A lot of people, especially those who haven’t experienced it in some way, have little sympathy for the addict and have no conception of just how difficult it can be to remove yourself from that mindset and begin the slow process of building a more positive environment. It’s already a big step to realize that the drinking habits of you and the people you know are NOT normal and ARE a problem.

A wise friend once told him (and perhaps the only wise drinking buddy he had), “we all fall into a mud puddle at times. Some people fall in deeper than others. But no one will stand at the edge and help pull you out forever. You have to pick yourself up out of the mud puddle. Are you someone who will pick yourself up or will you wallow in the puddle forever?”

He really took that to heart.

Perhaps an update is in order:

He doesn’t hate alcohol, people who drink too much, or even the people who ruined his face. He bounces back well and believes that hate’s a wasted emotion that will only bring you down. We all have our scars, be they psychological, physical, or our past. But dwelling upon them will not help us heal. If you let your scars get you down, maybe it means that you don’t feel that what’s left is good enough. It’s important to remember that there’s always something worth fighting for.

He’s happy with who he is, glad that he has supportive family and friends, and working his ass off accruing a top-notch GPA at a very respectable school, trying to get into one of the best medical schools in the country. Despite incredible stress at all times, he loves what he is doing and is on track to achieving his goals.

I hope you use this story as an inspiration. I’m sure that there are many people who weren’t fortunate enough to have the same support, and know that there are many out there who have picked themselves up from much worse depths.

Some things from his story that I thought might be helpful to anyone who wants to get out of their puddle:

-Create a positive supportive environment. This is a lot of work, but ever so helpful. Learning the difference between “fun” friends and friends who push each other to reach their potential is critical. Most “fun” friends won’t be there for you when you fall.
-Do some soul searching, and look at the root of your problem. Try and look at it (and yourself) in an unbiased way. You don’t want to spare your feelings, but you don’t want to be too harsh, either. Just try and be realistic. Find what you think is valuable about yourself, and what parts should be changed. Develop a concrete plan to reshape the things you don’t like and fix any underlying psychological issues.
-Set goals. There’s always something worth fighting for, so set short-term and long-term goals with set time periods (REALISTIC time periods).
-You will not make yourself perfect overnight, or ever. Don’t beat yourself up over your failures. Learn from them, and focus your mind on strategies you can try to be more successful next time.
-Take up a hobby, preferably one that’s incompatible with substance abuse. It has to be something you’re passionate about. Lifting is great for this because abstaining or moderation rewards you in terms of gains.
-Don’t be afraid to seek help if you need it. Not everyone (and probably most people) can do it alone. Be practical. If seeking help means you have a better chance of success, then do what will help you achieve your goals, and leave your ego at the door.
-Confidence in your ability to achieve your goals is key to realizing them.
-Don’t go cold turkey. It’s better to introduce gradual change to wean off slowly while building a more positive environment.
-There will be times when you will crave. This is a test of your mettle. Try seeing if you can wait an hour. If you are still craving badly, and can’t hold off, don’t feel bad. As time goes on, the cravings will get better and an hour will be long enough for it to go away.