[quote]Mufasa wrote:
It was bad because it was dependent on almost totally destroying a country, it’s infrastructure and bringing a people and culture to it’s knees…
Mufasa[/quote]
Yes… the same culture that brutally murdered the folks at Pearl Harbor. Oh, and I can see that in the long run what we did over there really had a detrimental effect. I’m not saying here that if you walked up to some dude in Japan and asked him if he was glad that we nuked them, he would say yes… but come on! They friggin started it! You bomb us and swear to destroy us, we will kick your ass!
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I personally don’t think North Korea will sit back and take the ass whoopin’ like Iraq. Everyone is cheering for this until that nuclear bomb is headed straight for L.A.[/quote]
Unless China steps in and does something, North Korea will fold like a crappy poker hand. China is the ‘if’ factor. If they like their new found prosperity enough, N. Korea is but a memory.
But, if China believes in the communist principles it has completely bastardized in the last 30 years, there might be a fight.
Frankly, I’m not sure that the US version of democracy is pure freedom… just as they might suggest Canada’s version isn’t freedom… but compare the two constitutions of the country’s and then compare the practice of democracy in the two countries…
I personally think the US has chosen to liberate the world at an extremely and unpayable cost… while they are spending untold billions fighting the various non-democratic countries using their dubious methods of choice… ie… why Iraq and not North Korea… why Iraq and not Chile etc… their own infrastructure is crumbling around their feet. Hell… it’s happening here in Canada and we aren’t dumping millions into a war. The economy is suffering like never before in the US and Bush seems to have no intention of paying it or the infrastructure even a maintenance level of attention.
My suggestion is simply to clean up your own household before trying to force-clean others.
[quote]Dire wrote:
Frankly, I’m not sure that the US version of democracy is pure freedom… just as they might suggest Canada’s version isn’t freedom… but compare the two constitutions of the country’s and then compare the practice of democracy in the two countries…
I personally think the US has chosen to liberate the world at an extremely and unpayable cost… while they are spending untold billions fighting the various non-democratic countries using their dubious methods of choice… ie… why Iraq and not North Korea… why Iraq and not Chile etc… their own infrastructure is crumbling around their feet. Hell… it’s happening here in Canada and we aren’t dumping millions into a war. The economy is suffering like never before in the US and Bush seems to have no intention of paying it or the infrastructure even a maintenance level of attention.
My suggestion is simply to clean up your own household before trying to force-clean others.
[/quote]
The U.S. economy is hardly suffering. The best thing that could happen for us, trade-wise is a weak dollar. Just the thing to piss of the Euro’s.
The way I see it, the louder Europe and Canada bitches - the better we’re doing.
Dire: That’s a cool avatar. I paid two dollars and two cents per gallon of gasoline yesterday. We are not in exactly the boom times economically, but we aren’t exactly crumbling to pieces, either. I’d say things are about normal for the US right now. And that’s awesome, considering the quite expensive world-policing we’ve taken to lately. If it wasn’t for pissant dictators and terrorist assholes, we’d be rockin’ the economic hizzy right now. I say crush them – mercilessly and quickly – and let’s all of us get back to living the good life like we all should.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Dire: That’s a cool avatar. I paid two dollars and two cents per gallon of gasoline yesterday. We are not in exactly the boom times economically, but we aren’t exactly crumbling to pieces, either. I’d say things are about normal for the US right now. And that’s awesome, considering the quite expensive world-policing we’ve taken to lately. If it wasn’t for pissant dictators and terrorist assholes, we’d be rockin’ the economic hizzy right now. I say crush them – mercilessly and quickly – and let’s all of us get back to living the good life like we all should.[/quote]
Loth - I don’t know where you live, But I filled up for $1.77, and I live in BFE. God Bless Texas - unless you have a problem with God blessing stuff.
You seem to be the ONLY one that realized that my post was NOT a condemnation of our actions against Imperial Japan…OR an overlooking of the atrocities that they committed (including Pearl Harbor…)
Maybe I worded it wrong or something…but my point was the one that you stated so eloquently:
“If a culture is truly taken in by a cult of beliefs or personality and is willing to die rather then surrender…what alternative is left then to destroy it and start over”.
That is a sobering and bone-chilling thought…but most likely true…
The “spreading” of any ideology often comes at a VERY high cost both to the Victor and Vanquished…
RJ: Tallahassee isn’t known for gas bargains, it’s true. I’d like to think that we have close to the highest gas prices in the country over here. And why would I have a problem with God blessing anything? Isn’t He too busy burying dinosaur fossils to test the faith of his believers? I think it’s great when he and Jesus take a time-out to bless Texas, buddy! Send some of that over here to Florida, wouldja?
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
The “spreading” of any ideology often comes at a VERY high cost both to the Victor and Vanquished…
Mufasa[/quote]
I didn’t mean to come down on ya, bro. My bad. I think the snippet above illustrates your point quite well. And it is bone-chilling to contemplate the extermination of a particular culture, but look at what choice we had. When you face down a guy and you’re both holding pistols, if he’s declared that it’s him or you, you pull the damn trigger. It’s kinda like a societal version of natural selection. I don’t think that anybody here likes the idea of going on a bloody rampage of democratic “cleansing”, nor do we take this matter lightly. But if they bomb our citizens or commit other atrocities, sooner or later we’re going have to do something.
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Sure, we can invade them, destroy their homes, kill their family members and then put in a U.S. puppet regime. Isn’t that what democracy is all about?[/quote]
So the elections in Iraq and Afghanistan are a way of us installing a puppet regime?
Dude, are you gonna Bogart that joint, or are ya gonna pass it over here? Share as little, man.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Zeppelin795 wrote:
Sure, we can invade them, destroy their homes, kill their family members and then put in a U.S. puppet regime. Isn’t that what democracy is all about?
So the elections in Iraq and Afghanistan are a way of us installing a puppet regime?
Dude, are you gonna Bogart that joint, or are ya gonna pass it over here? Share as little, man.
[/quote]
Yeah dude, the U.S. does it quite frequently. Of course you don’t hear it from the corporate press of learn it in history class but it does happen.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
The U.S. economy is hardly suffering. The best thing that could happen for us, trade-wise is a weak dollar. Just the thing to piss of the Euro’s.
[/quote]
A weak dollar is not the “best thing” that could happen for us, trade-wise; it is something that, for right now, has more of a positive than negative on our economy, it is not a solution. Think really hard about the problem that a weak dollar is alleviating, and then think about whether or not flucuations in exchange rate are the optimal way to solve it.
To be clear, I agree with you that, short-term, the weakness of the dollar is helping our trade situation, but to call it the “best thing” is an indication of gratuitous kool-aid swigging.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Zeppelin795 wrote:
Sure, we can invade them, destroy their homes, kill their family members and then put in a U.S. puppet regime. Isn’t that what democracy is all about?
So the elections in Iraq and Afghanistan are a way of us installing a puppet regime?
Dude, are you gonna Bogart that joint, or are ya gonna pass it over here? Share as little, man.
[/quote]
What are you smoking? We most certainly have installed “puppet” governments in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Don’t believe me? Ask yourself, how can President Bush “declare” that the elections in Iraq wlill not be delayed when he is not the president of Iraq? Can he also declare what that date of France’s elections will be? Sounds like a puppet situation to me.
Does anyone in their right mind really believe Harmid Karzai was not hand picked by the United States?
My questions is, why is that a bad thing? As far as I’m concerned, using our influence to get Karzai and Allawi in power is one of the things we’ve done right over there; temporarily of course.
