Budget Excitement in Canada

[towner24]

[quote]vroom wrote:

Interesting points. However, nowhere was I suggesting that Ontario needed to be cut some slack. I was referring to the discussions concerning Ontario and Quebec, such that Quebec should not feel that it is shouldering an unfair burden.
[/quote]

gotcha

Nobody is ever going to get everything they want. People need to stop crying about how much everyone else is getting and focus on defining a fair way to distribute funds that are above and beyond existing agreements.

I totally agree with you, and no matter what you do people will complain…but to brush off present complaints as whining/unreasonable is the flip side to this and goes to far.

Canada is amongst the most heavily taxed of all the G7 nations, yet the provinces are still cry’n for money. My opinion is that the situation is in part caused by the feds by taking too much of the pie. They then give pieces back, haphazardly, inconsistently and of coarse with strings.

Look, take in money, divide it up fairly and make the provinces responsible to their voters. They won’t come cry’n to the feds if the feds have nothing to give…but they do…so the provinces will.

The provinces have a hard time raising taxes or generating new revenue when too much of the already high taxes are going somewhere else.

Personally, I’d like to see the excess funds used to pare down the national debt and at the same time to see ongoing minor decreases in taxes as that happens.

Fair enough, but this goes to my point…paying down the debt should be PLANNED and BUDGETTED. This is being honest with Canadians about where their money is going.

I’m surprised that everyone is outraged that the federal government is now finally running a surplus when only a few years ago everybody was crying that Ottawa had to curb its spending and stop running a deficit.

This is where I’m hoping to change your thinking a bit, you’ve been duped into thinking a surplus is a-ok good management by our government. The surplus is planned, and then presented as a photo op. It’s manipulation, and don’t think for one second it’s “prudent planning”.

The purpose of a budget is to plan spending, and budgets can take into effect natural disasters,paying down the debt, SARS etc. That is prudent planning. Taking more money above and beyond the “planning” is called a slush fund, and has no planned purpose.

This bothers me because of the problem I cited with the provinces needing more money that they can control, and I don’t appreciate paying high taxes for their slush fund.

… but quit looking for excuses to jump down my throat or blame Ontario for whatever Ottawa is doing.

Don’t mean to jump down your throat, you were just the first person to post something I strongly disagreed with but actually knew a tiny bit about.

And Ontario has to take some of the blame for the gov’t it keeps putting into power

[JPBear]

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1119983109626.Tweedle2.jpg

Our heroic leaders…

[JPBear]

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1119983171811.Tweedle3.jpg

And their long lost triplet

[Zen_warrior]

I agree to a lot of what Towner said, especially about budgeting. It can be a tricky thing. You ever done your own tax report, and then have it done by someone more competent, Vroom? There’s a world of difference, and politicians got agendas that make it even more difficult to see the why’s of their decision. On Ontario, I think you might lack a bit of perspective, as you live there. Don’t take it the wrong way, I know it’s probably the same with me up here, lacking perspective about Quebec. But Ontario has always been more cared-for, had more fundings, etc, than any other province. I’ll admit to a bit of jealousy from Quebec to this treatment. But I’ve always seen it, always will. Remember a couple of post back, where I mentionned that the Conservatives were more fair? Where do you think it comes from? The Liberals are power-based, and one of their strenght is not to make the best decision, but the one that will bring the biggest political dividend in the futur, and most of the time that means giving Ontario the lion’s share of their budget.

Another very true thing Towner said, is that the fed have always have too much power compared to province. Even despite the budget iniquities, provinces have different needs, and covering them equally just isn’t a good way to be fair toward everyone. The federal spend a like amount, in proportion, for all provinces on the area they take responsibility for, but that do not means it should be the way.

One thing to consider, is that of the ten provinces and three territories, only three bring in the revenu and thus support all the others: BC, Ontario and Quebec. I’m all for giving them what they need to survive, but not if it means having a pass when our turn comes. Developping local resources and industries should be done in partnership province/fed, but right now, it’s more of a pissing contest about who gets to fund what, with every parties looking for the cheapest implication possible. not that I don’t understand that mentality, but there always is a losing sides, and more often then not, people tends to gets the small end of the stick. The fed isn’t willing to invest in the province. Rich provinces makes for a rich Canada, but too often of late, Fed tend to want a rich Canada, province fare however they can. That’s a no-win situation in the long run, and the federal government needs to have a very necessary change of mind sooner or later about this.

[redswingline]

I?m sorry Zen, but what you say about Ontario is just factually and demons ratably untrue. Ontario has paid more than it receives, this year to the tune of $23 billion.

Quebec on the other hand regularly receives more than it pays, in addition to having control over it?s own immigration policies and some healthcare exemptions. None of which I think is wrong per se; I just wish Quebec would hurry up and separate; the fiscal reality is that the ROC is the funding source for all of Quebec?s nanny state programs.

Vroom, educaton, housing the environment are indeed worthy causes. However, a $1billion HRDC fiasco, a $2.2 billion gun registry, the propping up of companies with close ties to the liberal party, the fact the resigding PM has CSL registered offshore so he doesn?t pay taxes; the fact that the residing PM has a private doctor (while espousing public waiting lists for all of us peons); the graft and corruption in and among Quevbec Liberals (buying of judge seats, envelopes of money ? I mean all it?s missing is a pauly walnuts character); the liberals continued soft on crime stance, etc; all combine to make the current liberal party one of the worst governing parties in the world ? they?re close to a dictatorship, they?re answerable only to themselves, and their friends in the media and the government controlled media propagate da liberal values.

I?m not saying Harper great ? far from it, and the recent parliamentary procedural runaround the libs completed shows he should be replaced.

I just happen to think many voters buy the massive liberal spin machine; how else can a comment stating ?Harper is against the whell? or whatever, be construed? So the liberals who vote against gay marriage are all Neanderthals? It?s typical liberal spin ? agree with us, or you?re a racist/sexist etc.