I still find it funny that if the Olympics weren’t going to be held in China, no one would know about Tibet.
[quote]ukrainian wrote:
I still find it funny that if the Olympics weren’t going to be held in China, no one would know about Tibet.[/quote]
this is quite the claim, considering that the tibet situation has been all over the international news, without reference to the Olympics.
Siting the games in China is merely a case of the IOC going back to the games’ ancient roots. After all, Greek city states often featured a very small minority of citizens who enjoyed the fruits of the labor of slaves who comprised majority of the populous. In this respect China is probably actually freer and more democratic than were the societies that founded the Olympics in the first place.
Boycott? Please. We should be celebrating a return of the old ways!
[quote]ukrainian wrote:
I still find it funny that if the Olympics weren’t going to be held in China, no one would know about Tibet.[/quote]
What. The. Fuck?
I certainly won’t be watching this year, not that I ever really watched them to begin with. I’ll call it a protest this time though, will be fun!
[quote]ukrainian wrote:
I still find it funny that if the Olympics weren’t going to be held in China, no one would know about Tibet.[/quote]
That is so ignorant, it’s ignant.
Fuck off about the athletes, if you trained your whole life for 4 days that were going to happen, then they got canceled how the hell would you feel about yourself?
The China-man is not the issue here. The chinese economy is growing ridiculously fast. They’re working on improving production and quality control in what they produce for us. In the next 10 years, nearly all of the major players in chinese government will change, we’ll get a better feel for where they’re going then. Things should get better, but it doesn’t happen in a year like the IOC would hope it did.
I assume anybody that supports boycotting the Olympics has already rid their home of every product made in China, refuses to buy from any company that sells to China and actively campaigns against the sale of corporations in his/her native land to Chinese corporations…oh wait that would actually take discipline and commitment to a cause.
Don’t get me wrong. Most of the leaders of China are totalitarian douche-bags. However, let’s not get the boycotting thing started again. There were a series of these in the 80s. US boycotts Moscow Olympics. Soviet Block boycotts US Olympics, etc. They were ridiculous. I dont think the US boycotts did the Soviets any harm, nor did the Soviet boycotts do the US any harm. But lots of athletes on both sides who had devoted their lives to their sport were hurt.
What I am hoping will happen is that everybody will show up and the Chinese will fuck up the Olympics on their own.
Basically the Chinese think that their shit doesn’t stink and that the rest of the world is populated by barbarians (You probably think I am exaggerating…I’m not).
Needless to say, a number of “BARBARIAN” countries have created a science that China has had to imitate and created democracies while China has never had anything but a string of despots over the course of its history.
Basically a boycott of the Olympics will do nothing, except hurt the athletes.
[quote]entheogens wrote:
Basically a boycott of the Olympics will do nothing, except hurt the athletes.[/quote]
That is what I was saying, but people still did not happen to realize that.
You can’t please everyone. They complain about China and justify their actions by stating all the problems China has, internally. It’s just crap, they’re going to whine no matter what. We already have the anti-poverty groups trying to boycott the 2010 winter games. This with B.C. in an economic boom and businesses everywhere begging for workers and these lazy ass shitheads still won’t get a job. A job after all might get in the way of them getting stoned.
[quote]ukrainian wrote:
entheogens wrote:
Basically a boycott of the Olympics will do nothing, except hurt the athletes.
That is what I was saying, but people still did not happen to realize that.[/quote]
And the other thing it will do is to give the Chinese rulers a chance to drum up even more nationalism. Any criticism against the Chinese rulers will be framed as an attack on Chinese pride.
I say, play judo with the bastards. Go to the games and let them-the Chinese- fuck it up. The moment anyone unfurls a tibetan flag-and they will-the Chinese police will be all over that person and it will be recorded.
Mind you, as I have written before on here, the Tibetan issue is a lot more complicated than the “Free Tibet” crowd would have us believe, but still people should have the right to air their opinions.
[quote]stokedporcupine wrote:
I see the Chinese PR machine hasn’t totally failed. [/quote]
China has a PR machine??
Let the whole world boycott the olympics, then in Chinese newspapers they can tell their fellow chinamen about how they swept the Olympics and how great they are.
[quote]Scrotus wrote:
Let the whole world boycott the olympics, then in Chinese newspapers they can tell their fellow chinamen about how they swept the Olympics and how great they are.[/quote]
And that is EXACTLY what I expect would happen. Even if there is no boycott, Olympic officials better keep their eyes open, because the Chinese will CHEAT and BRIBE. Look for this particularly in sports that require subjective judgements on form. Diving is one of these (although, admittedly the Chinese are damn good at that one sport anyway).
Who in the hell is the US fielding for basketball at the Olympics??? I am tired of us not putting our best athletes out on the court for these international competitions. We need to kick some ass!!!
[quote]entheogens wrote:
ukrainian wrote:
entheogens wrote:
Basically a boycott of the Olympics will do nothing, except hurt the athletes.
That is what I was saying, but people still did not happen to realize that.
And the other thing it will do is to give the Chinese rulers a chance to drum up even more nationalism. Any criticism against the Chinese rulers will be framed as an attack on Chinese pride.
I say, play judo with the bastards. Go to the games and let them-the Chinese- fuck it up. The moment anyone unfurls a tibetan flag-and they will-the Chinese police will be all over that person and it will be recorded.
Mind you, as I have written before on here, the Tibetan issue is a lot more complicated than the “Free Tibet” crowd would have us believe, but still people should have the right to air their opinions.
[/quote]
I know how fucked up the Tibet situation is (I used fucked up because that’s what describes it the best). But if the Chinese do actually manage to mess with the games, then it’s just going to reassure the world of how messed up the Chinese Government really is.
In my opinion, the Olympics, if not already, are going to demonstrate the problems with China to the rest of the world. Therefore, boycotting them will actually hinder the “Free Tibet” movement.
Here is how it pans out:
Boycott and stop Olympics = Everyone loses
Don’t stop Olympics = China loses in the eyes of the rest of the world
Anyways, the economic situation in China is forcing much of the world to reconsider their relationship with China. As the standard of living goes up in the country, so the the wages. And as labor is one of the three most important costs to consider for any business, then the companies need to check their labor costs coming for staying in China. Everyone knows that the only reason companies stay in China is for the benefits of cheap labor and the subsidies that the Chinese government provides. Once those are gone, there is no more need for China in the eyes of the Transnational Corporations.
The Olympics are going to be one of the events that allows China to procede closer to the title of an MDC.
It’s nice to see something of conscience and outrage over Tibet. Americans and Europe tend to be real good about that sort of thing when the target is not one of their own. 62 western bloc Nations boycotted the Russian Olympics in 1980 because Russia invaded Afghanistan.
Not one of these nations boycotted the 1984 Olympics in LA – even though the US invaded Grenada with much less political motivation than the USSR had with Afghanistan.
And even as the Chinese Government was attacking Tibeten protesters, NYC police were screaming “I’ll kill you. I’ll fucking kill you!!” as they proceeded to beat up the “free tibet” protesters in New York City in front of the UN last march.
China has been oppressive of Tibet for centuries, with stated US endorsement, but it wasn’t until the Communist Revolution in 1949 that the rhetoric out of Washington even began to speak of human rights in Tibet.
[quote]Gael wrote:
China has been oppressive of Tibet for centuries, with stated US endorsement, but it wasn’t until the Communist Revolution in 1949 that the rhetoric out of Washington even began to speak of human rights in Tibet.[/quote]
Yes, Gael, you are right. That is why I say it is complicated. Actually before Chinese intervention (China has had suzerainty over Tibet for a long long time) there was outright slavery in Tibet. All with the explicit or implicit blessings of the Lamas. So, anyone that wants to put the Lamas on a pedestal in regards to this is fooling themselves.
However, it would also be wrong to overlook the Chinese “invasion” of Tibet…populating it with tons of the Han minority and atrocities. Also killing and incarcerating people who oppose their policies in Tibet,
That needs to be opposed. Some people who oppose Chinese aggresiveness in this instance would have no problem agreeing with what you have said about other countries agressive policies.
I agree that it is kind of hypocritical for some countries to criticise China when their foreign policy is not exactly squeaking clean.
However, this is one reason why the games should go on. Nobody is clean. We could envision each Olympics being boycotted, if a precedent were set here. Not a good thing in my opinion.
[quote]entheogens wrote:
However, this is one reason why the games should go on. Nobody is clean. We could envision each Olympics being boycotted, if a precedent were set here. Not a good thing in my opinion.
[/quote]
Thank you for understanding what I was saying and putting it into words that I couldn’t.