did anything change (supplements, medication, etc.) between the last two blood tests?
Hankr: thanks but I’m pretty muxh recovered from the TC, aside from hormones. The chemo, if I go through it, will basically be as preventative measure in conjunction with follow jup to make sure it doesn’t come back. According to my CT Scan and pathology, I am cancer free.
PC: only change was 12.5 mg E3D of Aromasin, which explain the improvement in E2 and likely the slight increase in T as welli would imagine. I don’t THINK I started the pregnenolone until after the blood test, but I’m not 100% positive. I don’t think I absorb it anyway, and it wasn’t for more than a couple days if at all, so I think its probably safe to ignore it.
I’m wondering if my problem lies in starved DHEA and not in the testicle. Can’t produce T without the building blocks. But at this point I’m ready to just say fuck it and jump on HRT. Too much frustration to this pointand I just want some resolution!
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
But at this point I’m ready to just say fuck it and jump on HRT. Too much frustration to this pointand I just want some resolution![/quote]
I hear ya man. I read this thread last night and I can see how you can be frustrated. I am in the same frustration boat as you. Looking for the real reason to my idiopathic hypogonadism and was jus’ diagnosed with sleep apnea. I have a follow-up appointment to determine how mild or severe it is. But again, I’ve been dealing with these issues since Feb 2010. While I know it was the best thing to look for the culprit instead of going on TRT, I jus’ want to feel better. I commend you for your patience! Hang in there!
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
It is just impossible to get into a Quest in DC at 8 am though unless you book weeks in advance.[/quote]
Hey man, I don’t know about Quest, but at the LabCorp I went to, I booked an 8:30 (in advance) but showed up when they opened the door at 8 - there were actually only 2 people there when they opened so I got my cortisol right at 8am. Even though their 8am slot was booked.
I don’t know if that would work for Quest but it might.
Unfortunately that’s all I can help with at the moment. I am just getting into this hormone/thyroid/test stuff and so far am only moderately knowledgeable about thyroid and much less so about testosterone/adrenals.
OK, I’ve read through all 5 pages now and have a couple questions (forgive me if one of your posts answered them - I am going off the cuff remembering 5 pages at once)
-
You mentioned a while back you had a biopsy for Celiacs. Considering you just said you are moving to a gluten-free diet to “rule out the possibility of gluten sensitivity”, I am assuming the biopsy came back negative? I didn’t see you post the results.
-
What prompted you to look for Celiacs in the first place? Do you have noticeable GI issues that is potentially causing malabsorption? Or did you become suspicious simply because of lab values with no noticeable issues (I haven’t seen this talked about)?
-
I would test TSH after you’ve been off the iodine. Maybe it wasn’t the reason your TSH was high, or maybe it was. Easy way to know for sure is to retest. You are probably sick of testing by now though, and I don’t blame you. I don’t really have an explanation for why your TSH is high despite great FT3 levels, except for potentially…
-
Your RT3 is a bit high. As noted on thyroid-rt3.com and STTM at Reverse T3 (also called Reverse Triiodothyronine) - Stop The Thyroid Madness , the ratio you’re shooting for should be 20:1 or higher (yours is 18:1). This can be caused by poor adrenal function and/or low ferritin, both of which have been talked about in your thread. I will stress that I do not know if being slightly under 20:1 is a high concern or a low concern - all I know is that healthy individuals should be over 20:1.
In general, your thyroid labs aren’t overly concerning, but it couldn’t hurt to take body temps for a week or two to see what they look like (waking, and 3/6/9 hours after waking). I wouldn’t be surprised by wide variations day-to-day due to adrenals, but the average after several days of observations should be 98.6
Side note - is there a reason you use Quest over Labcorp in the DC area? You seem to have had several issues with Quest and my one experience with Labcorp went well.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
- You mentioned a while back you had a biopsy for Celiacs. Considering you just said you are moving to a gluten-free diet to “rule out the possibility of gluten sensitivity”, I am assuming the biopsy came back negative? I didn’t see you post the results.[/quote]
If I typed that, I misspoke…I was planning to get the biopsy, but after doing more research into Celiacs I decided it was unnecessary as my actual markers didn’t seem to be that high (aside from the sensitivity one)…so basically I just try to keep the gluten to a minimum and will keep this in the back of my mind
[quote]
2. What prompted you to look for Celiacs in the first place? Do you have noticeable GI issues that is potentially causing malabsorption? Or did you become suspicious simply because of lab values with no noticeable issues (I haven’t seen this talked about)?[/quote]
Simply because of lab values, but not just the celiacs panel…I have a lot of bloodwork that points towards crappy absorption (vit b-12, iron, Vit D, amino acids, etc.)…
[quote]
3. I would test TSH after you’ve been off the iodine. Maybe it wasn’t the reason your TSH was high, or maybe it was. Easy way to know for sure is to retest. You are probably sick of testing by now though, and I don’t blame you. I don’t really have an explanation for why your TSH is high despite great FT3 levels, except for potentially…[/quote]
I really don’t care about TSH all that much, just thought it was an interesting data point. I fully expect majority of my issues to go away once I start HRT (fingers crossed).
[quote]
4. Your RT3 is a bit high. As noted on thyroid-rt3.com and STTM at Reverse T3 (also called Reverse Triiodothyronine) - Stop The Thyroid Madness , the ratio you’re shooting for should be 20:1 or higher (yours is 18:1). This can be caused by poor adrenal function and/or low ferritin, both of which have been talked about in your thread. I will stress that I do not know if being slightly under 20:1 is a high concern or a low concern - all I know is that healthy individuals should be over 20:1.[/quote]
Yeah I suspect it is due to downregulated overall body metabolism…once I start HRT the thyroid stuff should correct itself, or at least improve…maybe supplement with some thyroid meds once I get the HRT dialed in is the goal…
[quote]
In general, your thyroid labs aren’t overly concerning, but it couldn’t hurt to take body temps for a week or two to see what they look like (waking, and 3/6/9 hours after waking). I wouldn’t be surprised by wide variations day-to-day due to adrenals, but the average after several days of observations should be 98.6[/quote]
I’ve bought a basal thermometer with the intention of doing just that…first day I tested my temp was 98.6 degrees at around 3:30 pm…this made me pretty happy as I can’t remember ever being at 98.6 unless I was running a fever–it has been low all my life…but I bought the crappy thermometer from walmart and the battery already died in it and I havent gotten around to going out to find a replacement yet…I will probably do that this weekend and take temps over the course of the next week…good suggestion…
[quote]
Side note - is there a reason you use Quest over Labcorp in the DC area? You seem to have had several issues with Quest and my one experience with Labcorp went well.[/quote]
Just the way the cookie crumbled…first lab I ever went to back when I didn’t know much about this stuff was Quest, so in the interest of keeping all the ranges the same for easier comparison, I just keep going back there…the only real problem I have with them is that they sometimes take too long to get my blood panels back, but other than that they are pretty good…if Labcorp can get stuff back quicker though, I would consider the change…
Update: I think I’ve almost got the uro ready to consent to me starting HRT with the other doc…to say that I am excited would be an understatement…
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Update: I think I’ve almost got the uro ready to consent to me starting HRT with the other doc…to say that I am excited would be an understatement…
[/quote]
Great news man. Be sure to keep us posted.
Had my yearly visit with the doc and PA on Friday…it went very well…finally got my urologist and oncologist on board with the TRT, and I jabbed myself for the first time tonight…pretty excited to see the improvements…
I have been beat down in the dirt for the past few weeks…recovery after workouts was terrible, and kept getting worse…strength dropped off…i haven’t even worked out in a couple weeks now…depressed…low libido…mentally and physically tired (would take a nap around 5 pm every day)…just miserable…
Protocol for now is:
-Test Cyp @ 100 mg/week (MWF injections)
-Arimidex @ 0.5 mg/week (M/Th dosing)
No hcg for now…may add it in later…
Stopped the prgenenolone for now (dont think I was absorbing it anyway)
Supplements are:
-Fish Oil (4 g/day)
-Biotest ZMA before bed
-Biotest Superfood
-Multi vitamin
-Vitamin B12 (1000 mcg/day)
-Vitamin D3 (8k iu/day)
-Ioddoral (25 mg/week)
Also have melatonin (5 mg) for sleep issues that I take occasionally…
Plan is to follow this for 6 weeks and retest, and then follow up appointment in 8 weeks…
Just an update, been on the protocol for about 3 weeks now and feeling tons better:
-Energy is coming back (was rough for the first week still)
-I’m able to do stuff in the evenings since Im not tired
-been back to the gym this week and had some awesome workouts–strength didn’t seem to suffer all that much from the layoff
-Able to get in bed at a decent time at night due to actually being tired at normal people times and not up all night, which helps me getting out of bed int he mornings as well
-Look like I’m starting to lean up around the waist but that could just be in my head
Not all good news though as I’m still having some erection issues…libido seems good though
Increased my arimidex dose to 0.25 mg MWF as of this week…interestingly I took 0.5 mg on Monday and that seemed to increase my mood and erections…may eventually move up to 0.5 mg MWF…going to test in a couple weeks after the 0.25 mg MWF protocol and see where things are at, but at this rate I’m expecting E2 to still be too high…
I think we may end up increasing my test dosage as well…guys my size usually end up in the 150-200 mg range from what I understand, which I’m on board with…
Will make decision about hcg at a later time–dont appear to need it yet…
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Just an update, been on the protocol for about 3 weeks now and feeling tons better:
-Energy is coming back (was rough for the first week still)
-I’m able to do stuff in the evenings since Im not tired
-been back to the gym this week and had some awesome workouts–strength didn’t seem to suffer all that much from the layoff
-Able to get in bed at a decent time at night due to actually being tired at normal people times and not up all night, which helps me getting out of bed int he mornings as well
-Look like I’m starting to lean up around the waist but that could just be in my head
Not all good news though as I’m still having some erection issues…libido seems good though
Increased my arimidex dose to 0.25 mg MWF as of this week…interestingly I took 0.5 mg on Monday and that seemed to increase my mood and erections…may eventually move up to 0.5 mg MWF…going to test in a couple weeks after the 0.25 mg MWF protocol and see where things are at, but at this rate I’m expecting E2 to still be too high…
I think we may end up increasing my test dosage as well…guys my size usually end up in the 150-200 mg range from what I understand, which I’m on board with…
Will make decision about hcg at a later time–dont appear to need it yet…
[/quote]
Awesome news man.
Now that you’re back in the gym we should get a lift in one of these weekends.
Glad you are doing well, Increasing T may not be the answer, but managing estrogen will be. We will not rule it out as we are flexible if it helps symptoms. We really need to look at what factors are driving that e2 upward if there are any that exist.
That is f*cking awesome man! I’m really happy to hear you are doing better and it gives me some inspiration. Keep us updated!
Great results! this is truly an inspirational thread full of tons of great info! congrats!
quick question, have you noticed an improvement in your absorption from june once you started the TRT and got your e2 better dialed in? i fight that same absorption issue.
^^^ I guess you are talking about absorbing food? Truthfully, I can’t tell a bit of a difference, but its not like I could before either…I truthfully didn’t know I even had absorption issues until I came back with low vitamins and amino acid levels, indicating at least a degree of malabsorption…
My body comp hasn’t changed all that much since I started TRT, but its only been a few weeks now and I’ve stopped all my supplements going into my first round of bloodworks to get a true baseline…
I’m getting bloodwork done on Monday and just wanted to capture some of my thoughts going into that so I can refer back to them without bias once I get the tests back.
Week 1: Felt tons better. Much higher optimism and life outlook, to the point where I decided not to go through with chemo therapy because I thought it was overkill. Significant improvement in libido, erection quality, and orgasms, but still know it wasn’t like it was when I was younger. Was still very tired in evenings after long nights of sleep. Huge improvement in confidence and dealing with people. Very long fuse as opposed to my previous short temper.
Weeks 2-3: Started feeling a bit worse. Libdio and erection quality dropped off. Still tired in evenings. Adjusted arimidex dose at the end of week 2 (0.5 to 0.75 mg/week). Still don’t think this is enough and a lot of my issues are still tied to high E2. Started back to the gym at end of Week 3 and was barely sore the following days, which was a great improvement over a month prior where I would be sore for 3 days after every session. Confidence and stupidity tolerance still pretty high.
Week 4: Increased Adex made a good difference. Again slight improvement sexually. Evening lethargy/tiredness seemed to go away. Gym sessions were excellent. But I was a moody bitch a great deal of time. Shorter fuse and would go off pretty easily, but would return to normal in very short order. Basically I would throw temper tantrums, which is really gay and annoying.
Week 5: Started off great, but kind of fell off as the week has gone on (leading up to today). Erection quality is hit or miss, but orgasms have been incredible and libido still seems high. Also I have been in training all week and had to get up about an hour and a half earlier than my normal waking time, so that has taken a toll on my energy and sleep. I’ve taken naps pretty much every night this week, which has cut into my gym sessions and made me more lethargic. Gym sessions have been so-so, but it is the hardest week of my current routine so that is taken with a grain of salt. Confidence is low-normal, for whatever reason. I think a big part of that is my gym sessions taking a toll on the confidence and not seeing the drastic drop in fat loss/muscle gain that I was for whatever reason expecting with TRT despite eating less calories and following the MAG-10 Pulse Feasts.
That said, I wouldn’t be surprised to see that I am still having issues with E2 and DHT. The good news is that those can be pretty easily overcome with increased adex for E2 and maybe some topical androgel applied to the nutsack. Doc has said he is open to both of these options if warranted.
One thing I am concerned about is my thyroid. My body temps when I’ve taken it randomly have not been near 98.6 (can’t remember the values) and the fact that I am eating in a calorie deficit and not lost any weight is a bit concerning to me. I was diagnosed originally with a degree of hypothyroidism (subclinical) and if I can’t improve greatly with managed T, E2, and DHT, I will probably push for a 6 week trial of T3. Only issue is that my fT3 is already pretty good (upper 80% of the range, or higher) but my TSH was still high as of last bloodwork.
All of this currently is speculation and we will have to go with the real blood tests, but this is what I am expecting based on current symptoms and what I understand on these hormones.
Any advice is appreciated, but this may be way too far in the weeds for anyone to really care about.
How long do you wait to train after donating 18 vials…jesus
Given that your FT3/RT3 is not concerning, the only thing I can think of that would cause your highish TSH and low body temps is poor ferritin/iron (which can cause both those symptoms). One of these threads had a link to a good site telling you what to look for in iron labs (TIBC, saturation percent, etc. etc.) but I forget where I saw the link.
There is a chart on this link which shows an interpretation matrix, though I haven’t spent much time vetting the site itself (just found it off STTM page) - Transferrin and Iron-binding Capacity (TIBC, UIBC) - Testing.com
Thankfully you didn’t have a mood swing when I loaded the wrong plate on your bar for that squat set…good thing we weren’t at MTW yet hahaha
Spreadsheet updated based on 8/1/11 tests
Not all tests have come back at this time (cortisol, DHT, lipids most notably)
The Good:
-Test is good (Free and Bio could be higher?)
-E2 is pretty decent (adjust arimidex to shoot for E2=20?)
-Thyroid is pretty damn near perfect (no ioddoral in the weeks leading up to test)
-Vit D is pretty good (can’t remember my Vit D dose leading up to test, don’t think I was using it)
The Bad:
-Ferritin and DHEA-S still pretty low (not sure this really matters since thyroid is good and test is exogenous)
-AST, Hemoglobin, and Hematocrit were elevated in range or above range, as usual
The Ugly:
-LH and FSH did not go to Zero as they should. In fact, FSH is still double the upper end of range and LH is mid range. These should be ~0 since I am on TRT, so what gives???
Elevated LH/FSH are explained either by:
-My body wants way more T even though I am providing it plenty (doubtful?)
-I have a growth on my pituitary secreting LH/FSH (doubtful?)
Other than these two options, I really am at a loss…
So pretty happy with the sex hormones (still need DHT) and thyroid (also still need cortisol but I have no reason to suspect it will be an issue), still baffled by my pituitary output…
Also need to start writing down my supplements on the day’s I get blood tests…I’m pretty sure I had eliminated all my supps leading up to this test for a couple weeks, but just don’t remember for sure…oops
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
-E2 is pretty decent (adjust arimidex to shoot for E2=20?)
[/quote]
E2 is solid but I’d think a little lower might help
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
The Bad:
-Ferritin and DHEA-S still pretty low (not sure this really matters since thyroid is good and test is exogenous)
[/quote]
Are you feeling fatigued or any hypothyroid symptoms? If not then low ferritin doesn’t matter. If you feel hypo despite good thyroid labs, then iron/ferritin needs to be scrutinized in more detail.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
-LH and FSH did not go to Zero as they should. In fact, FSH is still double the upper end of range and LH is mid range. These should be ~0 since I am on TRT, so what gives???
[/quote]
We talked about this… does FSH typically go to zero as well? I would think this would be elevated since your surgery and you aren’t taking exogenous sperm injections
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
(also still need cortisol but I have no reason to suspect it will be an issue),
[/quote]
Don’t write this off totally… even your highest cortisol labs were still short of what I’d call optimal. Your lab shows 14.4 total cortisol and 12.3am cortisol on your last test… why the 2 different values?
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
The Bad:
-Ferritin and DHEA-S still pretty low (not sure this really matters since thyroid is good and test is exogenous)
[/quote]
[quote]
Don’t write this off totally… even your highest cortisol labs were still short of what I’d call optimal. Your lab shows 14.4 total cortisol and 12.3am cortisol on your last test… why the 2 different values?[/quote]
All those blood tests were taken at around 10 am, so I can only assume they were a bit higher at 8 am. I’m really not concerned at all with my cortisol anymore–it seems to have rebounded nicely.
Not sure the discrepancy between the two. My only guess is they were analyzed at different sites with slightly different measurements.