I never throw it away. I think guys put too much stock in that ‘loosing potency’ thing.
I use 450 IU E3D = 1050 IU per week. This is based on published research showing that about 1000 IU per week in split dosages is about the right amount to bring intratesticular testosterone back up to normal in healthy young men taking 200mg of T-eth per week (a large dose).
No, I do not use an AI and I do not recommend anyone use an AI unless you specifically have the proper labs to show that your E2 is out of range. By specific labs, it needs to be a sensitive assay designed for men that uses the LC/MS method of testing (not the direct method with antibodies).
I generally recommend that guys optimize their T before layering in HCG. Don’t worry, your nuts won’t atrophy overnight. It takes months before you even begin to notice. HCG is not going to bump up your T that much anyway.
I’ve actually been on for almost three months reason being I was concerned about getting it added.
I didn’t run those first set of labs until two months in coming back at the 1481 mark at 150mg a week. I was originally planning to add it at that time reason being I’ve had the bottle since then, but was advised to get it dialed in before adding it like you stated.
I then lowered my dosage to 100mg and waited one month to retest which was the botched test I just posted about. All in all it’s been three months. I’m planning to retest this week to prove it was a bad lab. Would you wait any longer with the HCG or just add it in assuming 100mg would be a strong target number.
As I’m doing half the amount you stated. Do you consider 250iu x2 weekly too low? (This was the amount prescribed) What would be the absolute lowest amount you recommend. I’m also doing E3.5D shots and was planning to match the HCG on those days meaning twice a week.
@pushathlete236
You lowered your dosage by a lot, added DIM and now going to add HCG?
Change one thing at a time and give it 12 weeks to know how it effects you or you’ll be here this time next year no closer to your goal. There’s quite a few folks that have issues on DIM & HCG separately so adding both while dropping your dosage is a great way to possibly have 3 negatives. If you don’t nail it on the first try then what do you do? Which do you change first? What if the thing you change doesn’t help? What if it would have helped but the other thing you added is negating it. I’ve been in pretty much your same scenario and I’m happy to say it only took me a year of this to give up and drop the other crap and focus on T dosage only. Then after a long ass time of starting at 100mg and doing small increments I found out the dosage I started at (200mg) actually was best. My SHBG was close to yours pre-TRT and eventually dropped to 40 after a while on 200mg. I feel pretty damn good. Just wish I would have known not to listen to some folks. Live & learn.
Appreciate your input from my original post months ago and now.
Just to be clear I have yet to add in HCG at all. I started with 150mg of test cyp twice a week split into two dosages came back a little higher then I wanted to be at knowing I was going to also add in HCG.
Only thing I’ve done is lower my dosage + add in DIM. I re-tested a month later and the lab was obviously not correct as stated above. Around the time of re-testing which was two+ weeks ago I’ve dropped the DIM completely and continued my dosage of 100mg split into two dosages.
I hear this a lot from guys, but the data I’ve gathered on myself would argue otherwise, at least for me. There are numerous factors that one needs to consider in dosing T. Frequency of injections and whether you are optimizing on Free or Total T are probably the most important. The more frequent the injections, the lower the overall dose you need to keep your free T within normal range at nadir. Also, one needs to consider battling side-effects (mostly E2 and DHT) that are caused by superphysiological levels of T at the peek when one uses large injection (e.g. 200mg) on a less frequent weekly dosing schedule.
Well given that data shows 600mg to be “well tolerated”… I don’t think E2 or DHT would be an issue at 200mg, women on the pill typically take dosages of hormones above what they’d naturally produce… the pill, despite tripling the risk of blood clots, inducing occasional mood swings etc. appears to be well tolerated
Men just complain far more
I’ve used 120mg, 150mg weekly, 100mg weekly weekly, 200mg 1x weekly 400mg 1x 2 weekly… 70mg weekly… and more
Felt best on 200mg weekly, still felt good on 400mg e2w… should be noted men tend to feel good/better on supraphysiologic dosages, not worse (in general)… barring the negative/detrimental long term effects, this subsection appears to think supraphysiologic dosages make men feel like shit… this typically isn’t the case, go up to a bodybuilder, ask him what he feels like on 500mg test weekly… 80% + of the time they’ll say “happy and horny all the time”
I’ve gone up to 300mg for like… a week in terms of test dosages, used 250mg for fairly prolonged 10 weeks + periods of time… I don’t like higher dosed test due to
water retention (RAAS alteration)
acne/cystic acne
body hair growth (genetically prone, my father is super, super hairy)… I’m slightly hairier
Change one thing at a time to understand its effect so that you are not wondering which variable had the greatest effect.
Focus on optimizing T first and then layer in the other stuff as needed.
Dropping from 200 to 100 is a large decrease. But then again, from my other posts, I recommend starting at lower dosages closer to 100mg and then slowly increasing if Free T labs indicate until you get into the optimal range for Free T. See the text in the green bar in my dosing experiment graph posted earlier.
SHBG levels can fluctuate over time and from lab to lab. They also can be influenced by androgens such as T and E2 levels. The Synthetic androgens stanozolol and oxandrolone are two very potent examples of having a SHBG lowering effect. E2 levels can increase SHBG, but if you dose frequently and keep the doses reasonable so that T does not go into superphysiological ranges, E2 should not need much (if any control).
Per prior responses. I don’t think HCG will influence your T levels all that much, particularly ar 500 IU per week. Then again, I usually recommend nailing the T dose down fist and then layering in HCG so there are no questions (see prior post on manipulating multiple variables at the same time).
Many (most) guys use the dose you are prescribed (500 IU per week). I did for my first 6 years. I increased it simply because my current prescription allows me to do so and there is published data that supports 1000 IU per week for normalizing testicular function while on TRT. Bottom line is that I don’t think it makes much difference. I did not feel any better at my current 1050 than I did 500 and there’s been no change in testicular size that I can notice.
If 500 is the max your prescription allows, then I don’t think you have much in the way of options. If you increase it to 1000, won’t you run out before the next refill?
I can actually ordered as needed, but what I was advised to use what the amount I mentioned. I have the option to use a larger amount if chosen too.
I will hold off adding HCG until the lab comes back where I need it to be using testosterone alone. It’s just looking like now HCG won’t be layered in until almost 4 months which is much later then originally planned as I was looking to avoid atrophy. Will HCG drive the end result it’s used for regardless of how many months you were using without it in an adequate time frame?
Yes, you will end up at the same place. Four months without HCG will not cause any harm permanent to your nuts. They will come back. If you can get 1000 IU and can afford it, I’d go with that. No need to go higher.
It’s been a while since I’ve been off of HCG for more than a week, but I seem to remember one time after a couple months break things came back rather quickly. A couple weeks?
Most guys do about 500 IU per week in split doses. It seems to be the going rate. The stuff is a bit pricey, so that’s probably why guys limit the dosing. I’m at the upper end of the TRT spectrum at 1050 IU per week (450 IU E3D), but I’m not price sensitive. Some guys seem to respond with more of a bump in T than I do, so you might want to consider it’s effect on your overall T levels…