Blood Work Results - Some Opinions Needed

Pharma TRT
121

[quote]iroczinoz wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
In addition to antibodies, you may have a large amount of RT3 blocking T3 receptors. However I’m not sure why on the recent labs, your TSH would go down with a similar FT4 score. This is what makes me think of hashi’s… you shut down your thyroid production because your exogenous intake was high enough to give you most of whta you need, and your body stopped attacking your thyroid.

Having more FT3 labs would be a big help…alas [/quote]

Maybe I am starting to get confused but my last blood draw still showed antibodies present. So the attack is still continuing I think, or am I missing something?[/quote]

Disclaimer - I have not done extensive research on hashi’s, I only know what I’ve come across while researching general thyroid disorders.

As far as I know, they’ll always be present and you’ll always have hashi’s, you’ll be on thyroid meds the rest of your life if you have it (or at least for a very long time).

122

[quote]iroczinoz wrote:
Saw urologist today. Went in because of my Varicocele but left with a host of other tests.
In short…

Urologist was sound in her knowledge of male hormones. She had a look at my blood work and the 1st thing she said was that my testosterone is low. She went on to say that if I was 70 years old that would be acceptable but not at 33. WOW did she really just say that I thought I was dreaming for a second.

I did not really say anything and let her do the talking. She went over all the hormones and explained how it all works. Sounded like she was a member of Tnantion hahaha…

Had ultrasound done right there on the spot and she looked at my kidneys. She is concerned with the elevation markers. She also noted on the ultrasound that I have fluid left over on the kidney which should not be there 13mm. There was actually another spot with fluid she noticed. So she referred me onto someone else to have that checked.

She also referred me to have a CT scan to check passages where hormones pass through or something like that. Supposed to drink heaps, take a tablet the night before and a tablet in the morning before the CT. Also not to eat much at night before the test.

She also sent me to get my sperm counts checked since we plan on having another baby.

She said to hold off for the time being on my Arimidex and just wait for all the tests to come through. She does not want me to take Arimidex yet because it may interfere with other values. But she noted that she knows what I was planning in taking arimidex, good point but to hold off.

The Varicocele she said at the moment should be the least of my concerns. The stuff above is more important. The Varicocele should have no effect on being Hypo she said.

She said I am out of whack and something funky is going on. Will be seeing her in mid September and by then would have results for all my other referrals. After that we will see what happens if anything, but got my fingers crossed she seems to be a little more switched on then the rest I have seen.

[/quote]

I agree with your doc on getting a pre-arimidex baseline. Sounds like you found a winner.

123

Thought I would post a short update.

Saw Kidney specialist as Urologist wanted me to get checked out to be sure everything okay. The alarming thing was my higher creatine levels. I told her that I supplement this and it might just be that, either way I was told better to be safe then sorry. Kidney specialist checked me out nothing on ultrasound no signs of damage, prostate small and everything looked good on Ultra sound. 21.9.2011 I am supposed to collect a days worth or urine. I have stopped all supplementation of creatine to see what kind of results I get ( I assume it will be normal) Kidney specialist said that along with the supplementation if I am training it can also raise creatine levels. She had a cyclist come in after a long ride and his measured 280 double off the chart.

Had CT scan couple days ago will pick up results probably next week and they will be sent off to the urologist. So I will probably know by the end of September where I stand.

Off topic a little I persuaded my wife to get some blood tests done as she had never had them before. Local GP only ran TSH and none of the others(ft3,ft4) because she is stubborn as shit.

TSH 2.8 (.5 - 5.6)

She does tend to feel cooler than others, and at time she feels tired. Since I have some T4 meds available I was going to tell her to try and take some for a month and see how she feels if any better…

But since we don’t have Ft4 and Ft3 values maybe not a good idea for her to try T4 meds? Maybe might have to get her to try a different doctor for the blood tests…

124

Called today to check up on my fertility test results. Results were back with urologist and she said they are excellent. More than 60% motile, good shape etc… So all good there. Reason she sent me there was because of my high FSH and LH, Varicocele and that we plan on having a another child soon. So that was some good news.

Yesterday I double checked my E2 value to convert it to pg/ml from pmol/l which is more common on these boards. 107 pmol/l = 29 pg/ml. So that is reasonable, I just don’t understand their ranges here 28-156 pmol/l since having 28 pmol/l would equal 7.6 pg/ml and that can’t be considered normal.

DHEA has not arrived from the US losing hope now. Last check was last week and it was in customs waiting for clearance. Have another lead where to source DHEA from UK so being in EU might have better chance.

125

[quote]iroczinoz wrote:
I just don’t understand their ranges here 28-156 pmol/l since having 28 pmol/l would equal 7.6 pg/ml and that can’t be considered normal.

[/quote]

That is the lower limit of the LABCORP range here in the states–its fine

126

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
That is the lower limit of the LABCORP range here in the states–its fine[/quote]

Cool so that seems to be fine.

I have had a few things on my mind that I have wanted to ask.

  1. How important is testosterone for recovery? If we take normal ranges and say you are 300 and on the other hand you are 800 will you have much better recovery?

Reason I ask is simple. I have been doing a new routine for the last 2 months. 2 weeks ago I was doing 231 lbs for 5x5 comfortably. Last week I only managed 220 lbs for 3 sets of 5. Just a couple of days ago I could only complete 1 set of 220lbs for 5 reps. The next set I only managed 4. Friggin down right pathetic… This seems to be the way with me for the last several years. 3 steps forward 4 steps back. So over the coarse of 2 weeks (while training normally) I have basically dropped 15 - 20 lbs of my 5x5.

I am convinced if I did not train from January to September. Then trained from October to December I would be lifting exactly the same weights come December 31st. I love training but when you put it into perspective, it really becomes depressing.

So I am interested to hear personal experiences if having double the testosterone (still within normal range) helps with recovery and strength. On paper it would seem like yes but personal experiences would paint a better picture.

  1. 13.7.2011 VT recommended that I try and eliminate milk from my diet. I thought it was a good idea to give it a shot, why the hell not if it makes me feel better. So yesterday was my last day of milk free. It has been almost 2 months and really did not notice any difference in how I feel during that period. So I am pretty confident that milk is not causing me any grief.

  2. Customs in Czech sent me a letter about my DHEA. They want to know if it is for commercial use (310 pills), what the pills contain, how I take them etc… Bunch of BS questions when they have the papers that came with the parcel saying it is DHEA. I don’t know if this is some joke or what so I sent them a letter with the information they requested. I expect them to respond well sorry these will be sent back to USA as they are banned, or if I am lucky for what ever reason they will be delivered.

  3. I got my CT scan results back and not sure how to translate it all into English since my Czech is not 100% and the terms they use in the summary are foreign to me. But from what I gather I have some enlarged Mesenteric Lymph Nodes up to 12mm. I also have 2 enlarged lymph nodes near the renal vein 25 x 9 mm. I called the doctor who did the scan and asked about this and he said he suspects maybe an infection of some sort. But said to talk to the urologist about this as they specialize in this.

So this could also be another thing that is making me fatigued.
Other then that the CT scan showed no other abnormalities.

I need to get my TSH and FT3 and FT4 checked since I have been on my new protocol for over 2 months now. But I ain’t going back to the Endo. 29th I have an appointment with my Urologist and maybe she can help me with my Thyroid stuff, so will wait till then.

On the 21st I am supposed to collect urine for the whole day. I have cut my creatine supplementation to have a accurate measure on how my kidney’s are functioning.

That is all for now.

PS. Maybe the creatine was helping me push a lot more weight, while now off it down goes the strength. Also magnesium and zinc supplementation not really seeing any benefits yet on how I feel.

127

Regarding recovery & strength: Testosterone levels play an incredibly large part of that. I guarantee that doubling your T levels will make a huge impact.

When my T was in the shitter, I would be sore for days after workouts. Leg day would leave me sore for at least 3 days. Strength was also going down. Now that I am on TRT, I literally NEVER get DOMS…no matter how hard I train or even throwing in new exercises which used to have an effect, I am still fine the next day recovery wise. Strength is also moving up.

128

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Regarding recovery & strength: Testosterone levels play an incredibly large part of that. I guarantee that doubling your T levels will make a huge impact.

When my T was in the shitter, I would be sore for days after workouts. Leg day would leave me sore for at least 3 days. Strength was also going down. Now that I am on TRT, I literally NEVER get DOMS…no matter how hard I train or even throwing in new exercises which used to have an effect, I am still fine the next day recovery wise. Strength is also moving up.[/quote]

That is promising news and I take your word for it. Funny you mention DOMS and muscle soreness. I always attributed muscle soreness to progress and knowing that I did a good workout. But from what I gather this literally means body is not coping well and results will be minimal and severely hampered. It kind of gives the answer to why strength goes down when you think it should be going up.

129

Ha my DHEA arrived today. Had to pay duty cause it was over the $50 value max. So surprised they let it through guess they needed the money more :slight_smile:

Anyway I have to give a urine sample on tuesday collect urine all day and then take a sample of it. So I figure I will wait till after then and jump on the dhea. I want to be sure nothing is effecting my kidney results just to be safe. I am also not supposed to train very hard either within the 3 days leading up to the sample as this can skew the results.

I have had to cut back on training to eod max since my last leg workout had my legs sore for 6 days. Plus also being absolutely drained noticed mainly by decreasing poundages and feeling like shit.

130

Just got back from the kidney specialist.

They ran a pretty thorough panel of tests. Creatine was in range with blood test but at the higher end of the scale. Creatine in urine was above range. However nothing else was found to hint any sign of kidney damage or any sign of issues.

She said she suspects because of my good muscle mass that is the reason I have creatine levels elevated. There was no sign of protein being found in the urine or anything else. So that is some good news.

The bad news is that she said I should start doing something with my cholesterol. It looks like it has gone up again and she said that I am at an increased risk of heart disease and heart attack when I reach my 50’s. I gave her the run down of my diet and how I have done trials really concentrating on lowering cholesterol with no effect.

She went on to say that I am one of the few that probably has genetically higher cholesterol. I will not be able to lower it with diet which I have tried and zero change. So she said she recommends a statin drug 20mg daily at night. I remember seeing a few posts about statin drugs how they are pretty bad… I asked about the side effects and she mentioned extreme muscle weakness.

Since I already feel like that it might make the situation worse. I don’t know what to do, take them for a month trial or what. But probably something needs to be done with my cholesterol. Any advice or recommendations? I am actually a little hesitant to take them but if I am at a high risk of heart disease not taking them, do I have an option?

TSH came back at .5 so that is on 90mcg t4 and 10mcg t3. She asked why am I taking t3 probably unnecessary and t4 would be enough. I explained why I wanted to try t3 since I was not feeling that great on t4 but it could be because of lowish testosterone. I think I will stay at this dose for now.

Do you think I have gone too low with my tsh? I don’t feel any real side effects, and I must say I have really ripped up a lot. Weight has stayed roughly the same which is good.

I am going to see the urologist on Thursday with all my results and see what she has to say.

Been a week on dhea 100mg daily and sleep has been very good. I’ll ask the uro if we can check dhea-s, test,e2,lh and fsh levels in a month for the last time. If the dhea shows to have helped my test levels that would be great. Hard to say at the moment other than the sleep improvement no other change noticed.

Anyway here are the results which are important for discussion.

Ft4 - 21.5 pmol/l (11.5 - 23)
Tsh - 0.54 mU/l (.17 - 4.05)
Prolactin - 110 mU/l(85 - 333)
Testosterone - 10.61 nmol/l ( 6.1 - 27.1)
Psa - 0.39 ug/l ( 0 - 1.5)
Fpsa index - 38.5% ( 25-100)
Cortisol - 446 nmol/l (185 - 624)
Cholesterol - 6.48 mmol/l ( 2.9 - 5 )
Hdl - .92 mmol/l ( 1.2 - 2.5)
Ldl - 5.04 mmol/l ( 1.2 - 3.0)
Index cholesterol/hdl - 7> (0-5)
Trig - 1.13 mmol/l ( .45 - 1.70)
Iron - 14.7 umol/l ( 10.6-28.3)
C-reactive - 3.9 mg/l ( 0-5)
Glucose 4.63 mmol/l ( 3.5-5.6)

Blood was drawn at 10am.

The statin drug I have been prescribed is called sortis 20mg.

Should I be checking anything else to rule out the need for TRT?

Would TRT help with cholesterol metabolism?

Found this while looking at cholesterol:
It’s not cholesterol. It’s the small dense pattern B oxidized LDL particles whos origin lies in sugar and starch consumption.

Then after reading this article high cholesterol and heart disease is not linked.

What to believe…

For people who are more used to different value measurements here are my results

Total Cholesterol - 250 mg/dl
HDL - 35.5 mg/dl
LDL - 194 mg/dl
Testosterone - 305 ng/dl
Trig - 100 mg/dl

131

I am not a cholesterol expert but I do know there are basically two “types” of LDL based on how big the particles are. One is bad and one isn’t. I’m sure you can find threads on here with search function (I think MODOK in particular has talked about it).

The “perfect” TSH value is different for everyone, .5 seems fine, it’s really something you need to dose by feel. If you are feeling great, keep it there and don’t worry about the lab value unless it comes back real funky in a future test.

I don’t see how TRT would help breakdown of cholesterol (other than your body would need less of it). Your body may suck at breaking CHOL into pregnenolone, causing CHOL to pool in the blood. Not sure there’s much you can do about this - other than taking a pregnenolone supp and hoping it will eventually reboot your natural production line. Low chance of success from what I’ve read but if you want to test preg and give it a go, it couldn’t hurt.

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[quote]scj119 wrote:
I am not a cholesterol expert but I do know there are basically two “types” of LDL based on how big the particles are. One is bad and one isn’t. I’m sure you can find threads on here with search function (I think MODOK in particular has talked about it).

The “perfect” TSH value is different for everyone, .5 seems fine, it’s really something you need to dose by feel. If you are feeling great, keep it there and don’t worry about the lab value unless it comes back real funky in a future test.

I don’t see how TRT would help breakdown of cholesterol (other than your body would need less of it). Your body may suck at breaking CHOL into pregnenolone, causing CHOL to pool in the blood. Not sure there’s much you can do about this - other than taking a pregnenolone supp and hoping it will eventually reboot your natural production line. Low chance of success from what I’ve read but if you want to test preg and give it a go, it couldn’t hurt.[/quote]

Okay, I’ll ask about pregnenolone at the uro tomorrow to double check the endo was not bs me last time. DHEA sometimes also works to lower cholesterol but probably not all that common.

After reading all the negative facts about statins really makes me want to avoid them. If that article I mentioned is in some way the truth then statins are a money spinner only.

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Read Modok’s posts and it sure likes like he knows what the deal is.

Saw Uro, she took some more blood for another test, something to do with my gonads to rule this last thing out. Told me that my CT scan shows that the tube that leaves the kidney is slightly inflated where it exits out of the kidney. Not too concerning at this stage, ordered another CT scan in December to check up on it.

Creatine levels are high for my age, I should monitor these.
Statin drugs she said I should take and again pointed out all the stuff that can go down with high cholesterol as I age…
Pregnenolne she was not sure about and said to see an Endo and told me who the best one is. But he is apparently all booked out and does not take anyone new on board. Will try anyway.
Told me my kidneys are tired and probably need a rest. To limit protein intake and don’t take any supplements etc…

End of the day I have to eat something can’t live off lettuce and carrots.

Read some impressive articles on cholesterol… I will ditch the statin meds and try a 6 - 8 week diet eliminating all simple sugars and high GI carbs. Substitute my potatoes and rice with massive amounts of green beans. Will make a list of the best low GI foods and make up my meal plan.

High LDL with High Trigs means small particle size (bad)
High LDL with Low Trigs means large particle size (good)

Small particle size weighs less and thus can be deceiving having low LDL cholesterol (making you think your are healthier)

While Large particle size weighs more raises LDL in blood but being of larger size they are better and in effect deceiving you are worse off.

So from what I have read and understood, look at Trigs more than cholesterol and if they are low and cholesterol LDL is high you more than likely have large particle sizes (VERY GOOD)

Seeing as my trigs are not majorly high but could be lower will concentrate on that and see what happens. If I make it past 50 time will tell.

Going to increase Vitamin D3 to 2500 IU daily
Vitamin C 1000mg
Selenium 200mg daily
Cinnamon 1/2 teaspoon daily
50 grams of walnuts daily
And few more vitamins/minerals.

Will probably keep the oats as my source of carbs and take during the day. I mix them in water and just drink them. Still have to plan everything.

Stick with Tuna, chicken, lean beef. Basmati rice if it checks out okay.

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Sounds good. Let us know about new developments. You did your research quickly.

135

Did you feel any different once you introduced milk back into your diet after the elimination phase?

No discussions recently on your current symptoms–what are they?

You were going to get the LH/FSH rechecked to rule out lab error–you have not yet done so,. Why not?

How long have you been taking DHEA? Get blood tests, including the ones I mentioned, about 6 weeks later.

Why aren’t you going back to your switched on urologist to get your E2 and other tested? She seemed like your best option.

Get the required blood tests done and discuss your symptoms instead of your bloodwork and we will talk.

136

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Did you feel any different once you introduced milk back into your diet after the elimination phase?

No discussions recently on your current symptoms–what are they?

You were going to get the LH/FSH rechecked to rule out lab error–you have not yet done so,. Why not?

How long have you been taking DHEA? Get blood tests, including the ones I mentioned, about 6 weeks later.

Why aren’t you going back to your switched on urologist to get your E2 and other tested? She seemed like your best option.

Get the required blood tests done and discuss your symptoms instead of your bloodwork and we will talk.[/quote]

After milk back in no change, though I am drinking a little less of it now than before.

Next week will be about 4 weeks of DHEA usage. 3 weeks of diet and I plan to go to the gp and get blood work done. Cholesterol,E2,LH,FSH,Test,Dhea-s and try and get cortisol. I did have cortisol checked at the kidney specialist which was 3 weeks ago. At least I should see if anything has changed with dhea supplementation. Dhea has a half life of 10hrs so 4 weeks should be plenty to see if any improvement (but doubt it since i feel the same).

GP is a bitch and if I can’t get it there I will call my Uro and ask if she can do it. But last visit with her was a bit of a cold shower, she did not have much time for me. They are really tight with blood tests here.

I am still seeing the uro, she ran some genetic test on testicles to rule that out as a last thing. Not sure of the result yet.

I think she wants to supplement testosterone. If I go through her game plan, but if she does that is another matter. She wants to wait until we have success with pregnancy, not sure why! I guess she is playing it safe. I don’t want to push her too hard so she does not get scared and runs off. I also want to rule out anything else that could be causing my issue without relying on trt, but the list is running out and nothing comes to mind other than lowering e2.

Symptoms- very much lack of motivation to do anything. Muscle weakness and fatigue and low libido are really my biggest symptoms. If I also add in what pisses me off is the fact I can progress in weights for 6 weeks and after that I regress rapidly. Elbow pains in both elbows, probably not test related could just be slight injuries.

Double checking lh and fsh is a good idea and needs to be done. Hope I can get it all next week.

I initialy wanted to stay on this diet for 6 weeks. But as it stands 2 weeks have passed and I am down 6.6lbs. My protein intake is high, carbs are really only coming from oats in the morning and then just beans, tuna,chicken, special cheese which is 27% protein with 0.1% fat. Apples,white yoghurt and cinnamon and walnuts and whey, along with vit d3 2500iu and 30grams of the flora active spread which is supposed to reduce cholesterol by 10% in 3 weeks. So I want to test next week and if no change stuff it and just go back to eating normal.

Last year I was on a 10week diet not as strict and anal as now and had zero improvement, but it was a pretty clean diet.

Now I have had zero sugar (simple sugar) and really cut the bread out and high GI foods.

Will see.

137

Depending on your blood tests, if LH and FSH are still elevated and DHEA is adequate, but no change in low Test, then I would have no problems going on T injections if I were you. That would be a pretty clear sign that your body is screaming for more T, but your boys just arent responding despite providing adequate precursors. I imagine this will be the case as I have not seen anyone report back that DHEA took their test levels to any noticeably higher level.

138

Okay saw the GP she only did cholesterol. Called Uro and she said to come in on the 1st to get the tests I wish. Test, DHEA-S,LH,FSH,E2, might ask for cortisol also since I will get there at 7.30am and last time I had cortisol taken it was 10am.

So in short 3 weeks ago Cholesterol values were:

Cholesterol - 6.48 mmol/l ( 2.9 - 5 )
Hdl - .92 mmol/l ( 1.2 - 2.5)
Ldl - 5.04 mmol/l ( 1.2 - 3.0)
Index cholesterol/hdl - 7> (0-5)
Trig - 1.13 mmol/l ( .45 - 1.70)

3 weeks later

Cholesterol - 4.99 mmol/l ( 2.9 - 5.0)
Hdl - 1.02 mmol/l ( 1.2 - 2.5)
Ldl - 3.12 mmol/l ( 1.2 - 3.0)
Trig - 0.85 mmol/l ( .45 - 1.70)

Diet consisted of the following:
100grams of oats
80grams of protein with 600ml milk
2 apple with 1 teaspoon cinnamon, 100grams of walnuts,350grams of white yoghurt no flavour.
30grams of Active flora (Margarine spread type thing which has been proven to reduce cholesterol by 10% in 3 weeks)
120grams of cheese (special Czech cheese) 0.1% fat with 27% protein per 100g
300grams of Green Whole beans
250grams of Chicken breast
Tuna 130grams in vegetable oil

Along with

1.5grams of vitamin C
2500IU Vitamin D3
100mg DHEA (50mg morning, 50mg at night)
Multi Vitamin B

So it was a Carb restricted diet very much and it really did have a major effect on cholesterol values in just 3 weeks. I originally planned to go for 6 weeks but after losing 10lbs in 3 weeks, I wanted to check without losing any more weight.

So I think this tells me that CARBS contribute to cholesterol values - Because last year I did a diet for 10weeks very similar except I ate Basmati rice during the day with my meals or potatoes and a lot more oats during the day. Very rarely I had a cake. But this time around I went full anal and had zero grams of sugar no condiments or anything and rely restricted the carbs.

Now the margarine also may have helped combined with the walnuts and cinnamon. But I think that carbs played the biggest role.

Found some great articles at THINCS/The Cholesterol Myths - some astonishing facts

especially this article - The Statin Scam | Spacedoc.com

In January I will be back in Australia I have resumed a pretty normal diet now but not gonna eat any sugar. With every meal that contains carbs I am drinking a teaspoon of Apple Cider ( vinegar at the moment) to reduce the GI index of the carbs by 20-40%. This was something I read up. Get cholesterol checked in Januray and see what’s up. Will keep eating the walnuts and cinnamon.

On the 1st I will get blood taken from the Uro to confirm what is happening with test and lh and fsh. But my only concern at the moment taking DHEA.

I have a feeling my nipples are starting to become slightly itchy at times ( but not all that much in the context of things)and I am noticing them for some reason. Never noticed them before so it might be E2 related. But I have no idea what kind of itchiness I should be looking for. Is it a constant itch that makes you scratch like a mozzie bite or is it just subtle itches throughout the day that come and go?

But what to do? Blood draw is 10 days away, do I continue with DHEA or am I now at a risk of getting Gyno if I continue? Should I lower down to maybe just 50mg or 25mg daily from now till blood draw? No doubt DHEA-S levels should be elevated after taking 100mg daily for the last month.

Cholesterol test was good at least it told me I can lower it naturally and don’t need no statins if I ever want to have lower levels. Upon reading the links above I don’t think there is any concern unless you have high levels of c-reactive protein (low grade inflammation) present which then causes cholesterol build up in arteries. It was a good experiment though.

139

Cool to hear about the change in CHOL numbers. Have you looked into Niacin for improving your HDL? You really need to bring that up out of the tank, IMO.

As far as DHEA, I would be very surprised if you are getting E2 levels high enough to cause gyno from it. But would probably be a good idea to cut it back to 50 mg/day for the next couple weeks until your blood test.

140

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Cool to hear about the change in CHOL numbers. Have you looked into Niacin for improving your HDL? You really need to bring that up out of the tank, IMO.

As far as DHEA, I would be very surprised if you are getting E2 levels high enough to cause gyno from it. But would probably be a good idea to cut it back to 50 mg/day for the next couple weeks until your blood test. [/quote]

Just the info I needed, awesome thanks. Will drop down to 50mg. Niacin have read threads mentioning it. Will have to buy some asap and start supplementing it good reminder.