[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
You may be allergic/intolerant to milk…it is one of the most common intolerances on the planet…[/quote]
I have never even remotely considered this to be a problem. Never really had any signs of it to be a problem. But damn, if this is the case I would be lost for words.
I’ll eliminate it right now and give it a test run for 3 or 4 months.
You should be able to tell a difference in 2-3 weeks. Google “elimination diet” and see what comes up that you are normally eating…
Cool I’ll see how the milk thing goes in a month or so. Be interesting if I notice a change for the better.
Went to the hospital to see my endo and get my results. Looks like I am going to be stressing till the 4th of August because the endo has ordered a ultrasound for my gonads. She asked if I want to have it done I said sure as we need to get to the root of the problem. Oh damn I hope everything okay with them.
I did not fast for this test so I had my 100grams of oats with milk before this was done. Probably 1-2 hrs before the blood draw. Blood was also drawn at midday. So maybe my cholesterol levels are elevated because of this but doubt it since they have been like this forever.
Test results:
Glucose - 4.9 mmol/L (3.9 - 5.6)
Urea - 9.6 mmol/L (1.7 - 8.3)
Creatine - 109 umol/l (59 - 104)
Bilirubin - 6.0 umol/l (2.0 - 21)
Cholesterol - 5.89 mmol/l (2.9 - 5)
HDL - 1.05 mmol/l (1.0 - 2.10)
LDL - 4.0 mmol/l (1.20 - 3.0)
Total cholesterol - 5.6 (1.0 - 5.0)
non-HDL cholesterol - 4.8 (1.0 - 3.8)
Trig - 1.87 mmol/l (0.45 - 1.70)
Vit B12 - 415 pmol/l (141 - 489)
Folate - 17.6 nmol/l (10.5 - 42.4)
25-OH Vit D3 - 116 nmol/l (37.5 - 200.0)
25-OH Vit D2 - <2.6 nmol/L
Blood minerals all mid range wont type them all out.
AST - 0.77 ukat/l (0.00 - 0.67)
ALT - 0.79 ukat/l (0.00 - 0.68)
GGT - 0.89 ukat/l (0.17 - 1.19)
TSH - 2.30 mU/L (0.27 - 4.20)
Ft4 - 23.02 pmol/l (9.00 - 25.00)
T3 - 1.53 nmol/l ( 1.3 - 3.10)
Prolactin - 150.5 mU/l (86.0 - 324.0)
FSH - 16.6 U/l
Ref range for FSH:
Women:
Follicular phase 3.5 - 12.5 U/l
Luteal Phase 1.7 - 7.7 U/l
Ovulation 4.7 - 21.5 U/l
Post Menopausal - 25.8 - 134.8 U/L
Men: 1.5 - 12.4
LH 23.0 U/l
Ref range for LH:
Women:
Follicular phase 2.4 - 12.6 U/L
Luteal Phase 1.0 - 11.4 U/L
Ovulation 14.0 - 95.6 U/L
Post Menopause - 7.7 - 58.5
Men:
1.7 - 8.6 U/l
E2 - 107 pmol/l
Ref range for E2
Women:
Follicular phase 46 - 607 pmol/l
Luteal Phase 161 - 774 pmol/l
Ovulation 315 - 1828 pmol/l
Post Menopause - 0 - 201 pmol/l
Men: 28 - 156 pmol/l
Testosterone 10.74 nmol/l (7.57 31.40)
DHEA-s - 1.58 umol/l (4.34 - 12.20)
SHBG - 30.1 nmol/l (15.4 - 63.8)
Index of free Androgens 35.7% (24 - 104)
Cortisol - 263.5 nmol/l (171 - 536)
Growth Hormone (hSTH) - 3.78 mU/l (0.15 - 24.00)
IGF1 - 173 ug/L (115 - 307)
Looks like my Gluten intolerance test came back negative, thank god.
So just some of the things the endo had to say:
Yes test levels are on the low end. But her major concern now are my FSH and LH levels. She said that she sees such levels in women post menopause. So really she is not sure what the problem is. She took some more blood and said she wants to test some genetic test or something.
She ordered me in for the Ultra sound on my gonads to make sure they are alright.
So it looks like my gonads are failing in producing what is required or what the pituitary gland wants.
So testosterone sucks (309 ng/dl), DHEA-S sucks badly. To me it seems like my E2 is rather high when I take into account my lower testosterone. 10.7 nmol/l = 10,700 pmol vs 107 pmol/l. So roughly 100 times more test than E2, that does not sound too bad or does it?
UREA - she said to drink more water
creatine I said I supplement probably why I am over.
Cholesterol she said if I am eating right, and doing everything that I can then not much else I can do. She said this is genetic and at the moment my levels are not of major concern as they are slightly elevated. In the future I may need drugs to combat it. That kind of sucks since nobody else in the family has cholesterol issues. Maybe eliminating milk might help - she said maybe worth trying,
DHEA-S she was not really going into that she was so struck up on my LH and FSH values today. We will see what the ultrasound says and what the other test shows up that she planned.
Liver values slightly elevated always have been, it is just a tiny amount.
Time to do some more research. By the looks of it primary might be the issue I hope not. I hope there is a resolution to my problem. I just hope the endo does not trow me into the too hard basket. But at the moment she seems like she genuinely wants to help me so gotta be happy with that. Only took 3 years to find someone that will listen.
Any thoughts on my results?
PS. I divided my E2 value by 3.6 to convert into the value you guys are more frequent with. The Value comes out to 29 so going by that, that is a pretty good value in regards to E2. But when I take into account only 300ng/dl of Testosterone divided by 29 I get a factor of 10. Which is pretty pathetic right?
Been doing some reading on DHEA and found a nice little article on it
Have a read of it as it has a lot of great information.
Here are some of the good points since it is a long read.
1.Your adrenal glands are responsible for manufacturing DHEA. Actually, the cascade of adrenal hormones starts with cholesterol, from which the brain hormone pregnenolone is made. Pregnenolone is then transformed into DHEA. And DHEA serves as the raw material from which all other important adrenal hormones–including the sex hormones estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone and the stress hormone cortisol–are synthesized.
2.A host of studies suggest that the lower a person’s level of DHEA, the greater his risk of death from age-related disease. DHEA levels in 242 men between the ages of 50 and 79 were tracked for 12 years in a study by noted hormone researcher Elizabeth Barrett-Connor, M.D., professor and chairperson of the department of preventive medicine at the University of California, San Diego. The study found a close correlation between higher DHEA levels and reduced risk of death from all causes. The men who survived had three times the DHEA levels of the men who died.
3.The hormone has been implicated as a contributing factor in a host of health problems, including Alzheimer’s disease, autoimmune disease and other immunological disorders, cancer, chronic fatigue syndrome, diabetes, heart disease, high cholesterol, memory problems, obesity, osteoporosis, and stress disorders.
4.Commercial DHEA products are made from diosgenin, an extract from the Mexican wild yam of the Dioscorea family. Biochemists can convert diosgenin to DHEA by engineering a series of chemical conversions.
The market is flooded with encapsulated yam products claiming to be “DHEA precursors” or “natural DHEA.” Unfortunately, the human body–or any living system, for that matter–cannot convert diosgenin to DHEA. It happens only in the laboratory.
The ingestion of Dioscorea plant extracts can’t possibly lead to the formation of DHEA in the body, according to prominent DHEA expert Seymour Lieberman, Ph.D., of St. Luke’s - Roosevelt Hospital Center in New York City. Products containing Mexican yam or unconverted diosgenin may produce other beneficial hormonal effects, but they will not raise DHEA levels.
The research studies revealing DHEA’s therapeutic effects were all done with real hormone, not yam extracts. Read labels and insist on 99 percent pharmacologically pure DHEA.
After reading the page on DHEA I have to go an get me some and like the article says, buy the genuine stuff that works.
Could all my issues be related to DHEA-S. Like my Hashimoto’s, higher cholesterol, lower testosterone etc… I think I need to find out and start supplementing this.
I would definitely start supplementing DHEA…it is very low and is no wonder why your nuts aren’t producing–they have no building blocks!!!
I would try this for a month or so and see what happens…when you retest, be sure to get:
-Test
-E2
-LH
-FSH
-DHEA-S (obviously)
-Cortisol
If DHEA-S has imrpoved, but others haven’t, look into supplementing pregnenolone or progesterone to increase cortisol…this may help raise your body’s metabolic rate so your body ramps up cholesterol conversion into hormones…
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I would definitely start supplementing DHEA…it is very low and is no wonder why your nuts aren’t producing–they have no building blocks!!!
I would try this for a month or so and see what happens…when you retest, be sure to get:
-Test
-E2
-LH
-FSH
-DHEA-S (obviously)
-Cortisol
If DHEA-S has imrpoved, but others haven’t, look into supplementing pregnenolone or progesterone to increase cortisol…this may help raise your body’s metabolic rate so your body ramps up cholesterol conversion into hormones…[/quote]
VT any idea what causes low DHEA-S? Why would the body be deficient in this or is it common for people to supplement DHEA-S?
Endo is going away on holiday on saturday for a week. I will try and send her an email now and see if she can write me up a script for it. I’ll get those tests done you suggested and maybe progesterone along with it.
If DHEA-S fixes all this I will be the happiest.
thanks man.
Truthfully I am not entirely sure what the cause of low DHEA is…but normally when it is low, the rest of the downstream hormones seem to be significantly impacted…
If I had to guess, I’d say it had to do with the body’s ability (or desire) to synthesize cholesterol into pregnenolone, and consequently the rest of your body’s hormones…the reason’s for this I am unsure of, but it probably has to do with many factors common in today’s society including:
-low energy requirements (we sit for most of our lives nowadays, rarely get significant exercise, take the elevators, etc.)
-environmental toxins
-daily stress
shrugs
It’s hard to tell really…
Got thrown a spanner into the works. Endo sent me a message no pharmaceutical grade DHEA available in the Czech Republic.
I’ll have to order online and hope it makes it through.
[quote]iroczinoz wrote:
Got thrown a spanner into the works. Endo sent me a message no pharmaceutical grade DHEA available in the Czech Republic.
I’ll have to order online and hope it makes it through.[/quote]
Good luck… given your high cholesterol and OK cortisol scores, it seems like DHEA is most likely the weak link (if pregnenolone was the problem, I think your cortisol would be lower). Hopefully it is that easy.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]iroczinoz wrote:
Got thrown a spanner into the works. Endo sent me a message no pharmaceutical grade DHEA available in the Czech Republic.
I’ll have to order online and hope it makes it through.[/quote]
Good luck… given your high cholesterol and OK cortisol scores, it seems like DHEA is most likely the weak link (if pregnenolone was the problem, I think your cortisol would be lower). Hopefully it is that easy.[/quote]
I ordered some DHEA so hope it gets here. Probably start on 150mg a day for a month or so and then drop down to 100mg. From what I have read 100-150mg is probably a good dosage to get some results.
Just not sure should I hit it hard with the 150mg dose right from the start or should I work my way up to it. Like 50-100-150mg over a couple of weeks?
I would go with the 50-100-150 option…take minimal amount to get the desired benefits…
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I would go with the 50-100-150 option…take minimal amount to get the desired benefits…[/quote]
Still waiting to see if my DHEA makes it through. I have found out that it is banned here in Czech. I kind of hope I have some luck and it makes it past customs and I can give it a shot.
If the DHEA does not make it through I am kind of stumped what to do or try next. In my last post I think my calculations in regards to E2 and the number 29 is not accurate. I have had a look at my results again and on Friday when I see the Endo after my ultrasound ( which I predict will be fine) I want to have some kind of game plan to give to her.
I went over my latest results and the E2 to Testosterone ratio has me a little worried and was figuring if I should maybe try some ADEX to lower E2 and possibly raise Testosterone? Doing this will not fix my DHEA-S issue though.
Testosterone at 10.74 nmol/l (7.57 - 31.40) is roughly 33% from the top of range
E2 107 pmol/l (28-156pmol/l) is roughly 68% from the top of range
So in effect my E2 is overpowering my Testosterone going by this right?
I asked if they do a 4x saliva Cortisol test here and she said NO. So that rules that out. SO I only have the 8am draw and the 12noon draw to go by. I don’t think they were terrible results but maybe could be better?
So what do you guys recommend if the DHEA-S does not make it through. If it does I would take that for a month or so and see what happens. But more than likely it wont make it and I will have to decide what to do next.
Should I ask the Endo for an Adex script to reduce E2 to see if that helps?
Basically my biggest symptoms are - fatigue,weakness,lack of motivation to do anything except go to the gym, can’t sleep wake up like every 30-60mins during the night tossing and turning,also starting to notice I get irritated more easily than before (hate that)
What I am pissed off about is why is stuff like DHEA banned?? If that would fix my issue would that not be the best solution to my problem and not have to deal with the BS of not being able to get it. I would rather swallow some pills than have to take TRT for rest of my life. $hit like this makes me mad.
VT you mentioned maybe to try some Pregnenolone or Progesterone if DHEA does not help me. Should this me the next thing on my list if I can’t get DHEA?
Latest temperature readings
waking - 97
5pm - 98
11.30pm - 97.3
However I am constantly feeling kind of hot/warm
This raised my DHEA-s quite a bit.
I liked the idea supporting natural production rather than supplementing.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
This raised my DHEA-s quite a bit.
I liked the idea supporting natural production rather than supplementing.
[/quote]
What kind of figures did you have before and after? Interested to know how much it raised and after how long on use?
Looks like if DHEA supplementation fails my best bet is to take pregnolone. This will in effect raise my DHEA-S levels also from what I have been able to find out.
Okay currently I am sad and pi$$ed off at the same time. Basically Endo said that there is nothing to treat with me. Testosterone in range so insurance would not cover it she said and she sees no real reason for treatment. Apparently I have enough facial hair, legs and arms hairy so to her it seems I have plenty of testosterone. Fact of the matter is if I take off my shirt I don’t really have much hair on upper body. But I liked her explanation.
She said to stop looking at the ranges and that she thinks all my feeling unwell is in my head. She feels tired also and so does everyone else… Typical BS response… By the time she was done with her speech she said that she recommends me go see a psychiatrist that I am not normal spending so much time reading up on my lab results. At this point I started getting pissed off with her shitty comments.
So my issues from 2 weeks ago that she saw now are no issues. I might need Test injections in the future but not right now. She said my gonads are not functioning as expected but nothing we can do. She said some people have higher test others low, that is your body you have low testosterone end of discussion. I said why should I settle for shitty range ( with the numbers I have now I will be happy when I am 70-80 but not in my 30’s)
It was no use everything I said she played down. She said stop worrying about it and instead of wasting time on the forum go do something productive and don’t read into it too much. What a friggin cop out!!!
The discussion was pretty heated as I took offense to her smart remarks telling me to go see a psychiatrist. She said how much time do I waste reading all the stuff? as well as a host of other stupid questions comments… I got fed up after a while and said to her you are no different to the other doctors I saw before so nothing new to me.
Right if you don’t want to treat my testosterone because it is in range what about my other stuff.
LH,FSH,DHEA-S they are not in range so why not treat those? She said she can’t treat those only thing she can do is give me sustanol but ONLY if my testosterone was below range.
I asked what testosterone they use, Sustanol or a mix
I asked do they monitor E2 while on Test injections. She said NO ( I asked why not since E2 would be raised it should be monitored) She said no they don’t monitor or treat. She had no idea what Anastrozole was and said you can’t get it. I highly doubt that!!
No pregnenolne here so she can’t give me that
No progesterone here so she can’t give me that
Either that is true or she has no friggin idea what is available and what is not. I am sure it has to be available here in the Czech Republic. So my inclination is she has no idea. After hearing all that maybe I am better off no even seeing her since they don’t monitor E2 while on test.
I said how about my DHEA-S maybe that is causing my low Test levels - she said no. I said testosterone gets made from DHEA-s or that chain. She said no it is a different chain…
So really there was nowhere to go with this doctor and I left. I was very pi$$ed so looks like I was thrown into the too hard basket and go get your mental issues sorted.
There was a lot of other stuff said not gonna write it all down, but you get the idea. Everything I have read up on and explained to her she said NO not true blah blah blah…
So right now it looks like I may as well just give up on doctors and try to treat myself. Hope my DHEA comes through and see if that makes any difference.
Onto my Ultrasound there was no tumors or anything gonads looked fine. The only thing they noted on my results was:
Varicous vein on the left side. I can feel it and they say the size is around 3.8mm normal size is around 2mm. So Endo said maybe that has an effect on my testosterone levels. Could it be? The lady doing the ultrasound said it should have no effect on my testosterone the only thing it could effect is fertility since it will be a bit warmer there from the excess blood. It is not hurting so it is up to me if I want it removed or not. Usually she said it hurts so people get them removed.
And the only other thing on the ultrasound was on the right sound I have slight calcification 1.4mm. Everything else normal.
So she wrote out a referral to see a urologist and think about correcting the vein issue. Don’t know I don’t like going under the knife if I don’t have to. But if there is a chance that this could be a cause for low test levels? Anyone have any experience?
So I am back where I started the only good thing that came out of all of this is I had an ultrasound and had a few more blood tests.
No point going to see her again, dead end.
So I was given her summary and on the bottom is says recommend patient see psychologist/ psychiatrist.
So a person who reads up on their well being is a nutter.
[quote]iroczinoz wrote:
[quote]dhickey wrote:
This raised my DHEA-s quite a bit.
I liked the idea supporting natural production rather than supplementing.
[/quote]
What kind of figures did you have before and after? Interested to know how much it raised and after how long on use?
Looks like if DHEA supplementation fails my best bet is to take pregnolone. This will in effect raise my DHEA-S levels also from what I have been able to find out.[/quote]
From 335 to 438. I wasn’t taking as much mag gel then as I am now. Got tested again last week but was sick so results are probably garbage.
T also went up. From 327 to 438. Free T went from 7.9 to 19. There was a test between these two with Alphamale, so I’m not referencing that one. These two test also show the difference between E2 at 20 vs 41, so not sure how much the increased in DHEA-s contributed to increased T.
As far as timing, I would guess it starts to provide significant increases in a couple of weeks. No proof of this as I wouldn’t be doing testing that frequently.
I would not hesitate to recommend mag gel to anyone. It certainly can’t hurt to get proper mag supplementation, and my tests seem to support the claim that transdermal application raises DHEA.
Try to see if you can get pregnenolone if it’s not banned. Also your Free T3 is pretty bad along with elevated TSH (prob a result of your suboptimal cortisol, not necessarily a thyroid problem in and of itself).
Sorry didn’t have time to re-read the whole case, just the last page. Really sorry about that man. I would really try to find preg if I couldn’t get DHEA… though you will need to manage that E2 if your T starts going up.
Dhickey - thanks for that will try and source some of that magnesium gel. Do you know if there is a place online that ships? I asked the endo about it and she had no idea what it is or what it does… Not surprising.
sc - I said to the Endo that my E2 is relatively high and would Anastrolze maybe help with lowering it and in turn maybe get a little testosterone increase. She had no idea what I am talking about. But yeah I will need to source it from somewhere if my Test levels go up. Problem is who will test me now. Local GP here won’t and this endo won’t either. So I have to go looking again.
Found a few endo’s online with reviews from where might try and get in contact with one. Show him the results I have and if he would have any treatments recommendations. If he says no I’ll just walk away, won’t waste my time anymore.
Magnesium Transdermal - http://www.echolife.com.au/products/Australian-Magnesium-Oil.html
is this the right product or should I be looking for something else?
I use this
Basically 8 sprays is 100mg. You should take 3-4mg per pound of BW. I weigh 235 and take ~400mg in the morning and then 400mg at night along with ZMA.
Cool I’ll have a look into it!
Just got me thinking about my LH and FSH values. On my previous tests earlier this year they were 2 on a scale of 1-10. Which is low. But now they are high and it is confusing. The only difference is I have been taking thyroid meds and the tests were done at different times. The low number test was done at 8am while the high number test was done at 2pm.
So unless my LH and FSH are fine in the morning and then go to crap later in the day.
Reading about variocele issues and it looks like it could really be effecting T levels.
A multi-center WHO study on the influence of varicocele on fertility parameters demonstrated that the mean Testosterone (T) concentration of men older than 30 years of age with varicoceles was significantly lower than that of younger patients with varicoceles, whereas this trend was not seen in men without varicoceles.2,32 When exogenous hCG is administered to men with varicoceles, a blunted T response is observed compared to controls without varicoceles.28 Repairing varicoceles appears to improve serum Testosterone (T) levels. This observation was made over twenty years ago by Comhaire and Vermeulen29 and was confirmed recently in a larger series by Su, et al.30 Taken together, these findings indicate that varicoceles result in abnormal Leydig cell function in some men, but these patients may also be the ones to most benefit from surgical repair.