Blood Work Results - Some Opinions Needed

Pharma TRT
41

[quote]iroczinoz wrote:

What do you guys think should I trial the high blood pressure tablets or give them a miss for the time being.[/quote]

Personally, I will never touch blood pressure or cholesterol lowering medicine…if those markers are high, then there’s something else wrong and I will never just put a bandaid on it…look for your root causes (thyroid issues could certainly play a role…)

[quote]

The sea salt thing is interesting. I have always been concerned with eating salt, how it effects arteries and veins…[/quote]

That’s because we have had bad information forced down our throats for 30 years wrt sodium intake…the problem isn’t from dietary intake of sodium–its from dietary intake of sodium with tons of sugar and fat…your [well-functioning] body is very efficient at excreting excess sodium if needed…

[quote]

Worst case scenario I will have deal with it as it is now and then hopefully get a good doctor in Europe. [/quote]

Good luck with that…from the horror stories I’ve seen from posters on various forums that hail from Europe, if you don’t get this sorted before going back, your chances of finding quality health care drop off dramatically…but hey, at least its free!!

42

The only unknown here is rT3. fT3 can be normal or high range and can be blocked by rT3. Noting that AM cortisol appears good, I don’t see why fT3 would be high.

Glad that you have some answers and making progress.

Salt does not harm arteries. Hardened arteries cannot manage flow volumes, so less salt, less blood volume.

Docs put people on low sodium then they get iodine deficient. Total disregard for that.

43

I will try the salt test as described before I start medication. I am not really happy with taking medication for my blood pressure. That would mean I have to take 2 pills now for life at the age of 33. I’ll try the salt and see how my blood pressure goes and energy levels feel.

Interesting to read that it is rare for people to be over the range in T4 even if they take T4 medication. That really caught me off guard and unexpected. So really I should be in range with T4 while on T4 medication. That is great info will definitely bring that up with the doc.

I wanted to have rT3 checked but the stupid moronic doctor had no idea about it. She said only T4-T3 tests no such thing as rT3. Anyway this was a doctor who works the weekend and I just need to go in and ask for my blood tests so I get a referral. I don’t usually see this doctor and never will, she was absolutely hopeless. She actually started going off at me for asking for rT3 that there is no such thing… I was furious the appointment did not go to well but I guess I was lucky to get what I got. I wanted E2 checked also but she had no idea what E2 was until I said estrogen. At that point she said that is female hormone… I just sighed she was never going to give it to me I was actually very lucky to get cortisol and iodine. She wanted to do draw the blood on the spot at 5.30pm… I said to her no I need cortisol at 8am, she looked at me… Anyway the whole appointment was a disaster and I was very angry.

No doubt I will have to keep digging. I will read up on the stop the thyroid madness again and compare what I have to what they suggest and take it from there. I am trying to take this in the right direction but the doctors just will not listen. Really pi$$es me off badly.

I am very fortunate though with this website… I’ll keep you all updated… thanks!

STTM says - On a T4-only medication, we have noted that the majority of patients have a less-than-optimal free T3.

This kind of is not my case since my FT3 is really right up at the limits of the range. I really am confused at this point in time. I have a mate that has some T3 that he can give me, so I am wondering if I should test it and trial it. If I start on T3 this will most likely put my T3 off the charts as to the normal range. I wonder if this has an adverse effect.

I might try 1 more doctor here and see how that goes. But before I do that I am going to my pharmacy and going to talk to the pharmacist. On STTM site they say in Australia dessicated thyroid is called “Thyroid Extract”. Will ask the pharmacist if any doctors prescribe this around the area. Maybe that might point me into a better direction.

44

[quote]iroczinoz wrote:
This kind of is not my case since my FT3 is really right up at the limits of the range. I really am confused at this point in time. I have a mate that has some T3 that he can give me, so I am wondering if I should test it and trial it. If I start on T3 this will most likely put my T3 off the charts as to the normal range. I wonder if this has an adverse effect.

[/quote]

It could cause an adverse effect known as: death. But at least your symptoms would be cured (joking). But yeah, it could eat up all your cortisol and then you would be going to that big pharmacy in the sky…

Given your [edited post indicating] optimal FT3 and FT4 levels and good cortisol levels, but higher TSH, I would push for rT3 (even though we usually see messed up rT3 with patients with bad cortisol numbers, you need to rule this out).

For whatever reason your thyroid hormones are not activating receptors and/or the pituitary is not recognizing the activation and thus secreting more TSH to try and get the job done…

If rT3 is good, consider having a pituitary MRI to rule out a [benign] tumor on it (I consider this unlikely since your LH and FSH are low, but is still a possibility).

If all else fails, you may want to look into this and keep it in the back of your mind:

45

you have major thyroid antibodies, an extremely high TSH, and high T4/T3 numbers… you really need to do research on what those antibodies mean and what steps you need to take - I do not believe that simply taking additional Thyroid medication will help (but that is just a gut feeling which is why I keep recommending additional research/reading on the subject).

yes, most doctors are idiots. It still amazes me how many bad doctors are out there. and how offended they get when you try and have a two way conversation with them as opposed to simply bowing down to their glorious all knowing commands.

check out these two thyroid sites as well, or print off information to take with you to the doctor.

46

[quote]PureChance wrote:
you have major thyroid antibodies, an extremely high TSH, and high T4/T3 numbers… you really need to do research on what those antibodies mean and what steps you need to take - I do not believe that simply taking additional Thyroid medication will help (but that is just a gut feeling which is why I keep recommending additional research/reading on the subject).

yes, most doctors are idiots. It still amazes me how many bad doctors are out there. and how offended they get when you try and have a two way conversation with them as opposed to simply bowing down to their glorious all knowing commands.

check out these two thyroid sites as well, or print off information to take with you to the doctor.

nahypothyroidism.org[/quote]

I will investigate thanks for the info! I actually dropped into the pharmacy yesterday to ask if there is a doctor who prescribes T4+T3 like Armour etc… The pharmacy guy was not very switched on he just kept recommending me to my GP even after I explained it all. I just wanted to know if they even have the medication. As soon as he heard thyroid issue he named out the T4 medication.

There is another guy in the pharmacy who I was hoping to see as he is switched on and knows probably more than my local GP. I will try and catch him maybe he can recommend me a good doctor.

47

call around to compounding pharmacies. you will just get blank stares at regular pharmacies.

48

[quote]PureChance wrote:
call around to compounding pharmacies. you will just get blank stares at regular pharmacies.[/quote]

Was not sure what they were just did a quick search and found some pages :slight_smile: Thanks for the heads up.

Got a question on another matter. I personally feel that my testosterone is pretty low even though it is in range.

Has anyone had any experience taking Nolvadex say 20mg EOD to raise test levels? Having said that I have no idea what my E2 value is like so I would need to get it checked. If it is a little higher then optimal I assume I could take nolvadex to lower it and in effect raise my testosterone?

Considering I am doing everything right, training hard,eating clean and big. Relatively lean I estimate around 11-12% at 206lbs at 185cm, age 33. Most say that if you train eat well lift heavy your testosterone rises. So I would assume my lifestyle would have this effect, so if I would be passive and do none of this I think I would see my testosterone levels drop off lower. No point in talking to a doctor anymore they just look at me and shake their head.

Since Nolvadex is readily available is this an option instead?

I have never done any cycles don’t drink or smoke.

49

[quote]iroczinoz wrote:
Has anyone had any experience taking Nolvadex say 20mg EOD to raise test levels? Having said that I have no idea what my E2 value is like so I would need to get it checked. If it is a little higher then optimal I assume I could take nolvadex to lower it and in effect raise my testosterone?

[/quote]

This shows that your understanding of nolvadex (a SERM) and estrogen is shaky, at best…SERMs increase your E2, not lower it…they bind to the estrogen receptor (hence the name) and keep the circulating E2 from attaching itself and creating its effect…

You need to do a lot more research…

That said, given your low LH/FSH levels it looks like you COULD be a good candidate for a restart…I think most bodybuilding PCTs are 40/40/20/20 (mgs/week for Weeks 1-4)…not sure if this is proper for a restart of a non-steroid user or not, but would be a good start in your resarch I guess…

If your E2 is high after this, you may want to try Arimidex (an aromtase inhibitor, different from SERM…find out why)…

50

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]iroczinoz wrote:
Has anyone had any experience taking Nolvadex say 20mg EOD to raise test levels? Having said that I have no idea what my E2 value is like so I would need to get it checked. If it is a little higher then optimal I assume I could take nolvadex to lower it and in effect raise my testosterone?

[/quote]

This shows that your understanding of nolvadex (a SERM) and estrogen is shaky, at best…SERMs increase your E2, not lower it…they bind to the estrogen receptor (hence the name) and keep the circulating E2 from attaching itself and creating its effect…

You need to do a lot more research…

That said, given your low LH/FSH levels it looks like you COULD be a good candidate for a restart…I think most bodybuilding PCTs are 40/40/20/20 (mgs/week for Weeks 1-4)…not sure if this is proper for a restart of a non-steroid user or not, but would be a good start in your resarch I guess…

If your E2 is high after this, you may want to try Arimidex (an aromtase inhibitor, different from SERM…find out why)…[/quote]

At the moment I have no idea what my E2 value is since no doctor is willing to do the test. I will however get it done once in Europe.

The info I have read on Nolvadex is that it can raise Testosterone levels by 150%. So I was under the assumption that it raises test. But the one thing I am not sure of if this percentage is for natural test levels.

I have been trying to figure out what the recommended LH and FSH levels are. They say too high or too low is no good. My wife and I had our 1st child 10 months ago. I had no fertility issues at all.

I still am not clear what exactly my value of 2 for LH and FSH mean in the context of it all. Should they be mid range? What are the effects of low LH and FSH levels? I did not get those rechecked on my last blood test after having taken T4 meds for 2 months.

When you say good candidate for a restart. Do you mean as in take Nolvadex for the 4 weeks in the dosages you mentioned to kick start my testosterone production? Higher LH and FSH correlate with higher Testosterone values??

51

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

If all else fails, you may want to look into this and keep it in the back of your mind:

[/quote]

Well that could be a concern I guess. I could be that unlucky and be the 1 in 50 thousand who have this disorder. I gotta get rT3 ruled out and then maybe take a look at this and also check what my antibodies are up to after the T4 meds.

Funny thing is that the doctor who I saw to get my blood test referral said all these tests are expensive and the medical system will not pay for everything I want (especially E2 when I am male) Anyway it should have been covered by medicare the tests I had done since the doctor went on that she will not give me E2 or rT3. Anyway just a couple of days ago I received the bill for my blood test. What a joke, I am going back to the doctor to slap it in her face and tell her why she made a big deal about not giving me the tests I asked for since I am paying for it anyway.

Sorry for the rant, just upset about everything.

Icing on the cake was when she said rT3 no such test only T3 and T4. Honestly this was the most stupid doctor I have ever seen. I have no idea how she gets away with it. From what I have read on here most of the people on here are about 10 times more switched on than that try hard doctor.

52

[quote]iroczinoz wrote:

At the moment I have no idea what my E2 value is since no doctor is willing to do the test. I will however get it done once in Europe.

The info I have read on Nolvadex is that it can raise Testosterone levels by 150%. So I was under the assumption that it raises test. But the one thing I am not sure of if this percentage is for natural test levels.

I have been trying to figure out what the recommended LH and FSH levels are. They say too high or too low is no good. My wife and I had our 1st child 10 months ago. I had no fertility issues at all.

I still am not clear what exactly my value of 2 for LH and FSH mean in the context of it all. Should they be mid range? What are the effects of low LH and FSH levels? I did not get those rechecked on my last blood test after having taken T4 meds for 2 months.

When you say good candidate for a restart. Do you mean as in take Nolvadex for the 4 weeks in the dosages you mentioned to kick start my testosterone production? Higher LH and FSH correlate with higher Testosterone values??

[/quote]

You are arriving at the correct end result (that nolvadex MAY increase your testosterone) but you don’t have a good understanding of how you arrived at that conclusion. Personally I don’t do anything to my body unless I have a pretty good understanding of the processed involved to achieve end result.

Nolva will coax the pituitary into producing more LH/FSH, which will increase testicular production of testosterone IF YOU ARE NOT PRIMARY HYPOGONADAL (i.e. if your balls are still capable of producing testosterone). If you are primary, then your ballss won’t respond.

There is no real “recommended” LH/FSH levels because there is little that you can do to directly target them. Higher LH/FSH leads to higher T levels in normally funcitioning people, so its better if they are a bit higher. Your values are too low at this point, which is why a restart using Nolva may be something you want to look into. Mechanism of action is coaxing your pituitary to produce more LH/FSH, your testicles respond and kick out more test, and everything comes back into balance. When you taper off the SERM, your body is firing on all cylinders and will continue to do so. That’s the ideal scenario anyway.

I doubt your T4 meds had much bearing on your LH/FSH, especailly if your T didn’t change much.

53

Thanks VT for the information and the run down. Been reading up on LH,FSH and the effects it has on testosterone.

Most of it states that low LH and FSH levels will attribute to low/lower testosterone levels.

I might go with 20mg daily for 2 weeks and then 10mg daily for 2 weeks. Reason behind the lower dosage is, that I have read about dosages and they state that lower dosages work just as well as higher ones. Considering I have never touched steroids, I might not need too much to get me up and running a little better.

Then a week later after my last dose of Nolvadex I’ll go and get some blood work done.

54

The site someone posted about AI treatment options also had a good bit on how thyroid issues can impact Testosterone/Hormones in men.

sandiegosexualmedicine.com/index.php?page=male/sexual-medicine-treatments/thyroid-therapies

I completely disagree with their T4 only treatment plan, but the first part is good.

55

[quote]PureChance wrote:
call around to compounding pharmacies. you will just get blank stares at regular pharmacies.[/quote]

Got in contact with a compounding pharmacy and they said they do this all the time to mix T4 with T3 and T2 and T1. All I need now is a script which is going to be the hard part. But before I do that I want to get rT3 and E2 checked. Thing that worries me is that my FT4 and FT3 levels are good even before taking T4 meds. I still feel there must be something else causing my elevated TSH rather than FT4 and FT3 levels, but that is just a feeling.

Also I seem to be feeling a little worse then what I was feeling when I started T4 meds.

56

Update tomorrow I have a doctors visit planned for 11.40am

These are my notes written down to take with me. I’ll run through this list with the doctor. I already know the answers to the questions but this will be my last go with this doctor. If he knocks me back I will have to go elsewhere.

Reason I am going back is a decline in well being. I am feeling pretty bad at the moment, weak, fatigue my workouts in the gym have taken a dive, light headed, vision is tired ( was told having black spots run around in your vision is quite normal. Also I have had for a while now, feelings of pressure in my head. This has been around for a while now (years) But maybe it is normal when you bend over to get a rapid build up of pressure in your head? ( mostly around temples)

Upon waking my hands are freezing and continue to be for a good couple of hours. I am going to buy a thermometer today hopefully and get some body temps happening. Should I take these temps straight after waking up while lying in bed or wait 2 hrs and then take. Few conflicting suggestions I have read.

Vitamin B12 â?? mid range range (maybe elevate to top of range) Might ask for B12 shots. (Doubt he will prescribe

FSH & LH â?? Levels are low they look like they are almost suppressed â?? would like to be at least mid range. ( he will say I am normal - maybe ask for rial run of Tamoxifen)

Cholesterol checked again (want this checked as last time did not get it done)

Rt3 checked to make sure not excessive and cancelling out my FT3. (been asking for this for a while never given to me)

DHEA linked with T3 and rT3 function ( maybe needs to be checked)
E2 (estradiol) - I want this test ( also been knocked back a few times)

Why is FT4 above range â?? all information that I have read states that being above range in FT4 while taking T4 meds is very uncommon?

Slow release T3 meds an option depending on blood test results especially if rT3 is high.

TSH ask to get it lower ( but last visit he was happy with that value)

Is there anything else I should ask for? I just want to get everything done in one hit to save time going back and forth. Nothing else comes to mind as I have had everything else checked pretty much. So if you have any suggestions please post up, thank you!

57

Woke up at 8am today. Sat down and took a body temperature reading. Took 2 readings (96.8) and (96.7)

58

body temps should be 97.3 to 97.6 depending on who you ask upon waking up.

any lower indicates possible hypothyroid issues.

59

[quote]PureChance wrote:
body temps should be 97.3 to 97.6 depending on who you ask upon waking up.

any lower indicates possible hypothyroid issues.[/quote]

Here are some measurements from the last 3 days.

29.4 @ 8.09 - 96.8 (upon wake up)
29.4 @ 11.28 - 97.3 (after gym)
29.4 @ 22.40 - 97.1 (after work)

30.4 @ 8.05 - 97.0 (upon wake up)
30.4 @ 11.02 - 97.3
30.4 @ 15.20 - 97.5 (after gym)

1.5 @ 9.00 - 97.0 (upon wake up)
1.5 @ 13.43 - 97.9 (walking around shops for 2hrs)

They do look on the low side, should be getting my results in the next couple of days. Tomorrow they are going to fit me with a holter. I am not sure if I am experiencing palpitations but the feeling I am getting is noticing my heart beating and slight discomfort. This happens randomly during the day maybe once or twice. But when I feel my pulse it does not seem to go faster. Just a weird feeling like I am going out of breath for that short space of time.

60

check out this site.

it has some good info on body temps.

drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph