Blood Work Advice

Pharma TRT
61

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
@scj: I don’t eat a lot of seafood, I stick to beef and eggs mostly. I don’t use iodinized salt. Hmm maybe I ought to try using iodine salt and see if it makes a difference.

@VT: With T3 having a shorter half life, I guess you’d have to take it several times a day?

I’ll be seeing my doc in a little more than two weeks, you guys are providing me with a lot to bring to the table.[/quote]

Iodine deficiency may be your problem. KSMan talks about this in every thread with hypothyroid symptoms. You might want to supplement Ioddoral (spelling?) to build some up in your system, then maintain with iodized salt afte rthat.

re: T3 - they make slow release T3, I believe the dosing with that is once per day.[/quote]

They don’t sell Iodine supplements here, but I could get some from Sweden. Supplementation in this country is a joke.

62

[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
There is a RT3_T3 message board on Yahoo, and that’s where I’m getting the opinion that I’m making the T3, but it’s not getting into the cells. My cortisol is high, but you need iron too. Hence the request for iron labs.

EDIT: And the resident guru over there feels that if you’re getting enough thyroid hormone, you won’t be needing additional Iodine.

Opinions to the left of me, opinions to the right. And then the doctor in the middle :)[/quote]

I understand those points. I certainly wouldn’t say DONT get an iron lab - it’s useful.

I also understand that guru’s point…iodine is needed for T4 and T3, both of which you have a lot of. But on the other hand if you don’t eat any iodine I’m not sure where you’re getting it from

63

[quote]Quick Ben wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
@scj: I don’t eat a lot of seafood, I stick to beef and eggs mostly. I don’t use iodinized salt. Hmm maybe I ought to try using iodine salt and see if it makes a difference.

@VT: With T3 having a shorter half life, I guess you’d have to take it several times a day?

I’ll be seeing my doc in a little more than two weeks, you guys are providing me with a lot to bring to the table.[/quote]

Iodine deficiency may be your problem. KSMan talks about this in every thread with hypothyroid symptoms. You might want to supplement Ioddoral (spelling?) to build some up in your system, then maintain with iodized salt afte rthat.

re: T3 - they make slow release T3, I believe the dosing with that is once per day.[/quote]

They don’t sell Iodine supplements here, but I could get some from Sweden. Supplementation in this country is a joke.[/quote]

Wait, didn’t you say somewhere you are from Norway?

I hope you managed to avoid losing anyone close to you in that awful tragedy. Thoughts and prayers go out to you and your countrymen.

64

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]Quick Ben wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
@scj: I don’t eat a lot of seafood, I stick to beef and eggs mostly. I don’t use iodinized salt. Hmm maybe I ought to try using iodine salt and see if it makes a difference.

@VT: With T3 having a shorter half life, I guess you’d have to take it several times a day?

I’ll be seeing my doc in a little more than two weeks, you guys are providing me with a lot to bring to the table.[/quote]

Iodine deficiency may be your problem. KSMan talks about this in every thread with hypothyroid symptoms. You might want to supplement Ioddoral (spelling?) to build some up in your system, then maintain with iodized salt afte rthat.

re: T3 - they make slow release T3, I believe the dosing with that is once per day.[/quote]

They don’t sell Iodine supplements here, but I could get some from Sweden. Supplementation in this country is a joke.[/quote]

Wait, didn’t you say somewhere you are from Norway?

I hope you managed to avoid losing anyone close to you in that awful tragedy. Thoughts and prayers go out to you and your countrymen.[/quote]

Thank you for your kind words. The bomb did go off close enough to me that I felt the shock wave, but I didn’t know any of the people that lost their lives.

Most of them were children. It’s almost unfathomable.

65

An example to illustrate:

Possibly too much Cortisol which has issues of it’s own. To help you see where we are coming from on the need for proper Iron Labs, here’s my sister’s:
Ferritin > 161.4 (12 - 300)So according to that Doc you’ve seen, that would be OK?

I pressed her to get the others done:
Serum Iron > 9.6 (14 - 39)
% Saturation > 24.9 (35 - 45)
TIBC > 38.6 (45 - 80)
In short she was suffering from anemia and could hardly tolerate any Iron supplementation. The most she could tolerate was 15mg/Day

66

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
All the info your friend gave you about Iron is basically true, but not really applicable to your situation. Your T4->T3 conversion is good, your RT3 is good, your cortisol is certainly high enough to achieve activation with thyroid at the receptors.

Your case really points to subclinical hypothyroidism. I don’t know how liberal the docs are with meds in Norway, but I would push hard for a clinical trial of T3. Dose conservatively at first (I would be surprised if you need a lot) and get bloodwork done when your symptoms disappear and waking body temps normalize. Obviously take temps in the meantime and track changes. Your TSH will probably drop and ft3 will be slightly above range.

6 weeks should be a good timeline to figure out if this will work for you.

If your doc isn’t onboard, there are other means…depends on your risk tolerance…[/quote]

From what I gather, taking more T3 right now when my FT3 is 5.7 on a range of 3.5 - 6.5 will not get any more T3 into my receptor cells. My RT3 is in a good ratio to my T3 so I doubt that my receptors are clogged up with RT3. There is something else interferring with the T3 getting into the cell.

Taking T3 will lower TSH and lower T4 production, just how much will depend on how much T3 you take. 50mcg of T3 it will shut down the production of TSH and T4 and as a consequence stop the production of RT3. It would take about 6 weeks to reach that amount dosing through the normal protocol. What it does not do is clear the RT3 that is already in the receptors. That takes some 12 - 14 weeks for the RT3 within the receptor cells to degrade.

If the T3 doesn’t get into the cells it will start to pool in the system which causes another series of issues.

I think I need to see what the Iron labs are first, as without that info it would be unwise to start taking any T3.

67

I saw the doc again to discuss my blood work. He thinks I have an issue that makes my thyroxine not get into the cells, and that I’m likely to develop full fledged thyroid issues. I said “subclinical hypothyroidism” is what they call that. He said, “whatever they call it, that’s whats happening.” lol

He says it makes no sense to think there is an iron issue with me. He
said he could tell by the B-Hv test. However, he requisitioned the
tests anyway. I have it here, but he didn’t want me to go there yet.

He wants me to spend a few weeks supplementing with D3 and K2, eating
right and exercising. I told him I’d done all that minus the K2 since
last time I saw him, but yeah. Also, no meds until I attend a course
that is part of his approach. Of course that will cost me more money.
Ugh. The next one they host is in two weeks, the next after that is in
october.

Then, we will try a trial run with meds.

The fucker also wants me to do a 3 minute high intensity burst on a
bike or whatever, 2 times a day, to improve my insulin sensitivity. Not a bad idea, I could stand to do more cardio and lose some fat.

Then there was a bunch of diet advice I was basically following
anyway. He likes chick peas, lentils, beans, and having 6-8 meals a
day. I explained the AD for him and he seemed a bit sceptical about
having all your carbs for the week in a single day, but yeah. I’m way
ahead of the curve in the diet/exercise department.

I have a requisition for more blood work, iron labs included this time. I think I’ll do them then look around for a new doctor. This one seems too interested in padding his wallet. I mean the “advice” that I got today I was already doing on my own, but he paid little attention to that.

Anyone ever heard of a connection between thyroid issues and vitamin K?

68

That is the first I’ve heard of it, but it doesn’t mean he’s wrong.

A quick search of the first 2 pages of google results for “vitmain k thyroid” shows a couple sites saying it inhibits the thyroid, and a lot of sites saying nothing at all… meaning there isn’t much info out there on it.

Wikipedia Vitamin K page says nothing about thyroid function, more about coagulating proteins and a bunch of stuff I’ve never read. Thyroid pages make no mention of vitamin k.

I’m not saying he’s wrong, but, if he’s right…he’s probably the first one to know it haha

69

From what I’ve read, K2 helps with bone density. The Japanese eat something called Natto, which has a lot of K2. They have a lot less bones breaking and whatnot than we do here.

I’ll just get the iron labs, and after that decide whether to do a trial run of T3.

70

Edit: crap, I accidentally replied to the first page. Oh well, I’ll leave this up in case any of it is helpful.

Could it be keratosis pilaris? Keratosis pilaris - Wikipedia

KP is a genetic condition, so the presence or absence of it does nothing for a hypothyroid diagnosis. I have the condition myself, and it’s essentially harmless except for being slightly unpleasant aesthetically and having a higher incidence of ingrown hairs.

I’m also very intolerant to heat and enjoy the cold, but part of that is having grown up in Minnesota, USA (northern Minnesota - very intense winters). Being a Norwegian, that could be part of why you enjoy the cold and dislike the heat.

I have not been diagnosed with hypothyroidism, but I do have most of the symptoms like you do. It’s entirely possible that both of us are hypothyroid.

Supplementing with a multivitamin that has iodine, iodine-enriched salt, and seafood might help some, but it isn’t a long-term solution. Whatever you do, don’t use a kelp supplement - it may do more harm than good ( aace.metapress.com/content/pa9v8kmkxpy7a79l/ )

71

[quote]Akaji wrote:
Edit: crap, I accidentally replied to the first page. Oh well, I’ll leave this up in case any of it is helpful.

Could it be keratosis pilaris? Keratosis pilaris - Wikipedia

KP is a genetic condition, so the presence or absence of it does nothing for a hypothyroid diagnosis. I have the condition myself, and it’s essentially harmless except for being slightly unpleasant aesthetically and having a higher incidence of ingrown hairs.

I’m also very intolerant to heat and enjoy the cold, but part of that is having grown up in Minnesota, USA (northern Minnesota - very intense winters). Being a Norwegian, that could be part of why you enjoy the cold and dislike the heat.

I have not been diagnosed with hypothyroidism, but I do have most of the symptoms like you do. It’s entirely possible that both of us are hypothyroid.

Supplementing with a multivitamin that has iodine, iodine-enriched salt, and seafood might help some, but it isn’t a long-term solution. Whatever you do, don’t use a kelp supplement - it may do more harm than good ( http://aace.metapress.com/content/pa9v8kmkxpy7a79l/ )[/quote]

KP huh? Yep that looks like it could very well be it.

If you have symptoms like this and frequent this forum, I assume you’ve had blood work done. What were your results?

I hear the Minnesota landscape looks similar to the Norwegian one. It is true I’ve grown up in a relatively cold environment. Funny thing is, I dislike heat because I sweat easily and feel uncomfortable, but I generally feel better when the weather is good, and my I do better in the gym.

Thanks for posting.

72

Latest labs… looks like the D3 supplementation is paying off, and it looks like my iron is on the low end there. I’m hesitant to try a trial run of T3, because I’ve been doing well lately, and I don’t want to cause any issues like driving up my RT3 levels.

B-Leukocytes: 8.3 10^9/L, 3.5 - 11
S-Iron: 13.6 umol/L, 9 - 34
S-TIBC: 63 umol/L, 49 - 83
S-Iron saturation: 22 %, 15 - 57
P-Homocystein: 5.9 umol/L, 5 - 15
S-Kalium: 4.2 mmol/L, 3.6 - 5
S-Kalsium: 2.25 mmol/L, 2.15 - 2.51
fS-Insulin: 37 pmol/L, 18 - 173
fS-C-peptid: 304 pmol/L, 270 - 480
fS-Triglyserider: 1.59 mmol/L, <2.6
S-Cholesterol: 8.4 mmol/L, 2.9 - 6.1
S-HDL-Cholesterol: 1.2 mmol/L, 0.8 - 2.1
S-Estradiol-17Beta: 0.08 nmol/L, <0.18
S-Testosterone: 13 nmol/L, 8 - 35
S-SHBG: 27 nmol/L, 8 - 60
Free Testosterone Index: 4.6, 2.3 - 9.9
S-Cortisol morning: 740 nmol/L, 250 - 750
S-Vitamin D: 191 nmol/L, 50 - 150

  • Vitamin D3: 191, -
    S-Vitamin K: IF, 0.1 - 2.2
73

You ever test for ATA (second test for hashi’s)?

Why do you think t3-only would promote RT3 conversion? The whole reason behind taking t3 is because it eliminates the chance of high RT3 conversion from T4.

Need a more sensitive Estradiol test, there should be a lab range with a bottom value, not just “<.18”.

Cholesterol is high, how are your LDL/triglycerides?

74

[quote]scj119 wrote:
You ever test for ATA (second test for hashi’s)?

Why do you think t3-only would promote RT3 conversion? The whole reason behind taking t3 is because it eliminates the chance of high RT3 conversion from T4.

Need a more sensitive Estradiol test, there should be a lab range with a bottom value, not just “<.18”.

Cholesterol is high, how are your LDL/triglycerides?[/quote]

ATA testing has not been done as far as I can tell. Thyroid antibodies, right? Fighting and clawing with doctors to just get basic tests done, that one must have slipped my mind.

My estradiol from my first post in this thread is elevated, and that certainly makes sense. I don’t know why this 17beta-E test shows such a low value.

I personally think that because my cortisol is high and my iron saturation pretty low, I should supplement with iron and Phosphatidylserine for a few weeks and see how that develops. My iron saturation should be around 60-75% on that range. It’s all about optimising your thyroid function in getting the T3 into the cells. Iron is part of the picture, Cortisol the other, you don’t want it high and you don’t want it low.

I don’t want to get on thyroid meds if I don’t have to. Heaven forbid I jumped right on taking T4 when I found out about this, that would be like throwing fuel on the fire, and would be very very likely to cause an RT3 issue.

75

[quote]Quick Ben wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
You ever test for ATA (second test for hashi’s)?

Why do you think t3-only would promote RT3 conversion? The whole reason behind taking t3 is because it eliminates the chance of high RT3 conversion from T4.

Need a more sensitive Estradiol test, there should be a lab range with a bottom value, not just “<.18”.

Cholesterol is high, how are your LDL/triglycerides?[/quote]

ATA testing has not been done as far as I can tell. Thyroid antibodies, right? Fighting and clawing with doctors to just get basic tests done, that one must have slipped my mind.

My estradiol from my first post in this thread is elevated, and that certainly makes sense. I don’t know why this 17beta-E test shows such a low value.

I personally think that because my cortisol is high and my iron saturation pretty low, I should supplement with iron and Phosphatidylserine for a few weeks and see how that develops. My iron saturation should be around 60-75% on that range. It’s all about optimising your thyroid function in getting the T3 into the cells. Iron is part of the picture, Cortisol the other, you don’t want it high and you don’t want it low.

I don’t want to get on thyroid meds if I don’t have to. Heaven forbid I jumped right on taking T4 when I found out about this, that would be like throwing fuel on the fire, and would be very very likely to cause an RT3 issue.[/quote]

ATA = Antithyroglobulin Antibodies.

Yes if your iron labs are bad, I would supplement with iron.