Birthers are Crazy

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
221

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:
Now we do pretty well and we are penalized.
[/quote]

I definitely respect your overall post and situation, but I’m left wondering what the above quoted statement means. If you don’t mind, will you elaborate?[/quote]
Well, that we worked hard and smart, got educations and did everything “right”. Now we pay the highest amount possible in taxes and are demonized as 1%ers who are out to keep people down. I want people to rise up, through themselves, not others. No one gave us anything. How did this social turn of events happen?

222

[quote]ZEB wrote:
2- The bottom 48% of workers PAY NOTHING.
[/quote]You’ve known me here a long time. I’m just asking this question. I filed taxes as a self employed contractor this year for the first time. I made 14 grand. The IRS wants 1800 dollars I do not have. An ex IRS agent who has been preparing taxes for 40 years did it for me. Told me that’s the best I’ll get. I am not for taxing the rich, but how does what you say which is also what I’ve always heard, add up with the reality of my situation? Do you have any idea how much money 1800 dollars is to me?

223

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
2- The bottom 48% of workers PAY NOTHING.
[/quote]You’ve known me here a long time. I’m just asking this question. I filed taxes as a self employed contractor this year for the first time. I made 14 grand. The IRS wants 1800 dollars I do not have. An ex IRS agent who has been preparing taxes for 40 years did it for me. Told me that’s the best I’ll get. I am not for taxing the rich, but how does what you say which is also what I’ve always heard, add up with the reality of my situation? Do you have any idea how much money 1800 dollars is to me?
[/quote]
See, crazy ass comments like “the bottom 48% pay nothing” are just untrue and inflammatory. Spreading that kind of propaganda around isn’t helpful.
1800$ for 14k seems steep, but that must be combined with other income to get to that %, right? I hope.

224

Tribulus,

The Self Employment tax is 13.3% (I think) and that would hit you at about $1862, so $1800 is actually a little savings (I know that sounds shitty), did you have a lot of expenses that you could write off maybe to lower that bill some more? I would think you would have some other deductions as well, but I am unfamiliar with your exact situation. On the plus side that tax rate came down from 15.3% in 2010 to help encourage small business growth.

225

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
It’s almost like starting two businesses by the same person.

Business A: taxed at 40%

Business B: taxed at 14%

Who are the people who can afford to put the most money into stock and thus make the most from it?

If you guessed the wealthy, you’re correct.

edit: Afford to put the largest percent of their income into stock to make it more correct[/quote]

Yes, and that means that it is more punitive to the rich than to any other group. They pay about 40% on the initial money earned and then pay an additional 15 percent on any profit made through any type of investment.

If you throw in state taxes, property tax and all the other taxes that they have to match if they have employee’s that can add up to well over 50% or 60% of the total.

[/quote]

I respectfully disagree about it being punitive to the rich. I’ll give you a scenario that’ll hopefully paint things the way I see it using two imaginary people.

Meet Jane. She’s a very well off woman and money was always in her family. Her regular income is taxed 40ish% and she puts about half her income after tax into stock. Keep in mind that even if that half dissappeared she would not be in any danger and her kids would still go to good colleges. Now her second source of income is only taxes at 14%.

Now meet Joe. He’s struggling financially. He’s not lazy, but he has many college loans to pay off, a family to support, and just found an entry level/little experience job for which he’s overqualified. It’s all he can find in the area and he can’t afford to move. To pay rent and keep up on loans and feed his family, Joe now has to take a second job. His wife just had the children and is taking care of them full time. Both jobs are taxed at 30%. He would love to invest money in stocks, but that’s not a viable choice because all of his income goes towards loans and grants.

Joe pays 30% on two incomes. Jane pays 40% on one income and only 14% on her second income. Additionally, Jane from the get go because of her family had much more discretionary income.

As I see it, this system is unfair to Joe. I’m not angry at Jane as I would take advantage of every opportunity I could and I do, but that doesn’t make the system right. [/quote]

The system isn’t unfair to anyone. Jane came from a wealthier family. That means that someone worked really hard to put her there. And if they want to give her some of what they earned who are you to deny her? That is part of what America is all about. And that’s why I am for getting rid of the inheritance tax. It’s one more way for big government to distribute wealth that your family wanted to leave to you.

But if you are saying it’s better to have money than not to have money–DING DING you get the prize. But with that said I am for removing the capital gains tax (something I agree with Newt Gingrich on) because it discourages investment and risk taking. And that is how people get ahead. If you want to keep Joe down then tax what investments that he can make (eventually). But if you want to help people become wealthy then allow them to keep more of their hard earned money by lowering both income tax and capital gains tax. If the rich are already wealthy who are these taxes really hurting?

Do we hate the rich that much that we would try to harm ourselves in order to harm them as well?

Think about it.

226

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
2- The bottom 48% of workers PAY NOTHING.
[/quote]You’ve known me here a long time. I’m just asking this question. I filed taxes as a self employed contractor this year for the first time. I made 14 grand. The IRS wants 1800 dollars I do not have. An ex IRS agent who has been preparing taxes for 40 years did it for me. Told me that’s the best I’ll get. I am not for taxing the rich, but how does what you say which is also what I’ve always heard, add up with the reality of my situation? Do you have any idea how much money 1800 dollars is to me?
[/quote]

I don’t about your specific situation that is better left to the hands of your accountant. However I do know that the bottom 48% pay nothing in income tax. And that is a travesty of justice. Everyone should pay something even if it’s only $100.

227

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
2- The bottom 48% of workers PAY NOTHING.
[/quote]You’ve known me here a long time. I’m just asking this question. I filed taxes as a self employed contractor this year for the first time. I made 14 grand. The IRS wants 1800 dollars I do not have. An ex IRS agent who has been preparing taxes for 40 years did it for me. Told me that’s the best I’ll get. I am not for taxing the rich, but how does what you say which is also what I’ve always heard, add up with the reality of my situation? Do you have any idea how much money 1800 dollars is to me?
[/quote]
See, crazy ass comments like “the bottom 48% pay nothing” are just untrue and inflammatory. Spreading that kind of propaganda around isn’t helpful.
1800$ for 14k seems steep, but that must be combined with other income to get to that %, right? I hope.[/quote]

Better check your facts before you post.

The bottom 50% of income earners pays a measly 2.2% of the total. Do the math on how much that breaks down to for HALF THE COUNTRY. ZIP!

http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

228

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
Tribulus,

The Self Employment tax is 13.3% (I think) and that would hit you at about $1862, so $1800 is actually a little savings (I know that sounds shitty), did you have a lot of expenses that you could write off maybe to lower that bill some more? I would think you would have some other deductions as well, but I am unfamiliar with your exact situation. On the plus side that tax rate came down from 15.3% in 2010 to help encourage small business growth.
[/quote]

Yes, listen to B r i a n he knows more than your accountant does about your income.

Ha ha…there is really no end to your bluster and bull shit is there?

229

Listen ZEB. I am as conservative as they come. I want to see EVERYBODY’S taxes slashed because I do not want this destructive government having any more money than is needed to fulfill the very few constitutional mandates there actually are. That said, I was stunned when this guy told me I needed to come up with 1800 dollars when I am at the very rock bottom of income earners.

I am sitting here typing this to you as living proof that the idea that all these low income earners pay nothing is a lie. It makes no difference to me what kind of tax it is or what the policy particulars are. That’s ONE THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED American dollars that they will relentlessly pursue me for like a starving lion after a crippled gazelle. They may as well be asking me for a hundred million dollars. I lost that contract job last Thursday. I have 147 bucks and a car. The house went to sherrif’s sale in November. Eviction is any second now. I’ve seen them in action. None of that will make a bit of difference to those legalized extortionists in DC.

See here’s the crux of the matter. They WANT me on their social welfare rolls under the assumption that I represent another vote for somebody else’s money in my pocket. They need me to need them. I will starve myself AND my family to death before I will take one dime of their filthy payoff money. Do you people hear me? They will NEVER absorb me and mine into their godless collectivist mass of nursing dependent zombies.

The pressure is overwhelming but I sleep like a baby. I really do. Ya know why? Because my hope is not in this wretched pitiful world or this once great now decaying country. The God I love and serve commanded the universe to exist from nothing by the breath of His mouth and sustains it every millisecond by the power of His Word. He is not mystified by my piddly financial situation. He has already done infinitely and eternally more for me than I deserve. I owe Him all that I am and all that I have exactly BECAUSE He has not only cancelled all my debts, but given me His inheritance. Yes, that makes perfect sense from an authentic Christian standpoint. He owes me nothing. I will lift my hands and my voice in praise to His glorious name whether He makes me a billionaire or I have to scratch and scrape for the rest of my natural life just to survive.

Couldn’t help the sermonette folks. The bottom line is we can talk on and on for weeks. I AM miles below the poverty line and they ARE bleeding me to death.

230

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Good thing this place hasn’t changed at all.

And by the way rockscar, it’s laughing stock. Not stalk.

[/quote]

My name is spelled with a capital R

231

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
2- The bottom 48% of workers PAY NOTHING.
[/quote]You’ve known me here a long time. I’m just asking this question. I filed taxes as a self employed contractor this year for the first time. I made 14 grand. The IRS wants 1800 dollars I do not have. An ex IRS agent who has been preparing taxes for 40 years did it for me. Told me that’s the best I’ll get. I am not for taxing the rich, but how does what you say which is also what I’ve always heard, add up with the reality of my situation? Do you have any idea how much money 1800 dollars is to me?
[/quote]
See, crazy ass comments like “the bottom 48% pay nothing” are just untrue and inflammatory. Spreading that kind of propaganda around isn’t helpful.
1800$ for 14k seems steep, but that must be combined with other income to get to that %, right? I hope.[/quote]

Better check your facts before you post.

The bottom 50% of income earners pays a measly 2.2% of the total. Do the math on how much that breaks down to for HALF THE COUNTRY. ZIP!

http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html[/quote]
Sure, it’s true, as a percentage. But you make it seem like they don’t pay taxes at all. They do pay them, it’s just a tiny % of the total. And if 50% of Americans make less than the 33k or so a year, that’s just sad.

232

ZEB,

You are just plain silly, the Self Employment tax is 13.3%, his taxes on his $14,000 are just where they should be ($1862), he wondered why he would be taxed so heavily on such a low income, the 13.3% is why. It doesn’t make any sense for you to be so contrary, he feels as if he is getting screwed (and he probably is) but that is the tax rate, it’s in a book, look it up.

233

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
2- The bottom 48% of workers PAY NOTHING.
[/quote]You’ve known me here a long time. I’m just asking this question. I filed taxes as a self employed contractor this year for the first time. I made 14 grand. The IRS wants 1800 dollars I do not have. An ex IRS agent who has been preparing taxes for 40 years did it for me. Told me that’s the best I’ll get. I am not for taxing the rich, but how does what you say which is also what I’ve always heard, add up with the reality of my situation? Do you have any idea how much money 1800 dollars is to me?
[/quote]
See, crazy ass comments like “the bottom 48% pay nothing” are just untrue and inflammatory. Spreading that kind of propaganda around isn’t helpful.
1800$ for 14k seems steep, but that must be combined with other income to get to that %, right? I hope.[/quote]

Better check your facts before you post.

The bottom 50% of income earners pays a measly 2.2% of the total. Do the math on how much that breaks down to for HALF THE COUNTRY. ZIP!

http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html[/quote]
Sure, it’s true, as a percentage. But you make it seem like they don’t pay taxes at all. They do pay them, it’s just a tiny % of the total. And if 50% of Americans make less than the 33k or so a year, that’s just sad.
[/quote]

What’s sad is that someone in business like Trib is paying $1,800 on an income of something like $14,000. And the bottom 48% pay ZIP!

A person making 33-K should pay at least as much as the business person that the government is trying to punish as in the above example.

234

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
ZEB,

You are just plain silly, the Self Employment tax is 13.3%, his taxes on his $14,000 are just where they should be ($1862), he wondered why he would be taxed so heavily on such a low income, the 13.3% is why. It doesn’t make any sense for you to be so contrary, he feels as if he is getting screwed (and he probably is) but that is the tax rate, it’s in a book, look it up.[/quote]

And you’re an IDIOT for thinking that you know more about his tax situation than his own accountant. YOU have no idea what he may have for write-off’s or anything else about his financial position. But that doesn’t stop super liberal B r i a n from pontificating about his problem.

You’re not only a hypocrite you’re also a “know it all.”

But as I said, stick around at least you are comic relief for the rest of us.

235

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I think the real question here Zeb Do you understand Capital Gains taxes ? Have you ever paid them ? I have a couple years where my Capital Gains were %50 of my income .[/quote]
Dude, I’m in the top tax bracket, we pay 35% on our income. Then after tax, we invest some of that money. We then pay 15% capital gains tax.
What’s not to understand?
Sure there are deductions, but that’s the basics.
IF all of your income is from investments ie; capital gains, then sure, you only pay 15%.
But that’s only for the Warren Buffett types, not regular working people.[/quote]

The number of people who are actually wealthy enough to live off of capital gains income probably number less than 5,000 people.

That is just a guess but I’d be surprised if it were many more than that. And so what if there were? They earned the money paid the top tax percentage on it they then invested it and pay additional 15% on it and they are now wealthy.

When did that become wrong in America?

[/quote]
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with it at all. I hope for it to be me in the next 10 years. It’s a goal we have. Seriously.
The misinformation both sides put out is outrageous. Like when the Dems say “Republicans are gonna cut your SS” Well, they propose cutting the planned increases, that’s all. If you get $100 a month in SS, and it’s slated to go to $110, the proposal is cut 50%. Of the proposal. So you’d get $105, not $50.
People who take the news at face value are sheep.
Baahhh…(pointed at you Pitbull)
[/quote]

I do not understand your post , There is no disinformation that a dollar Mitt earns is worth 85 cents and mine is worth 67 cents what is disinformative about that . [/quote]
Right. His income now comes from investments. Your’s doesn’t. What’s the problem?
[/quote]

So Mitt makes more money than i with other money I make less money than Mitt with sweat . So My Dollar should be worth less . I got it (NOT)

236

Hey Zeb , no hard feelings here , I did say with all due respect :slight_smile:

237

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Listen ZEB. I am as conservative as they come. I want to see EVERYBODY’S taxes slashed because I do not want this destructive government having any more money than is needed to fulfill the very few constitutional mandates there actually are. That said, I was stunned when this guy told me I needed to come up with 1800 dollars when I am at the very rock bottom of income earners.

I am sitting here typing this to you as living proof that the idea that all these low income earners pay nothing is a lie. It makes no difference to me what kind of tax it is or what the policy particulars are. That’s ONE THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED American dollars that they will relentlessly pursue me for like a starving lion after a crippled gazelle. They may as well be asking me for a hundred million dollars. I lost that contract job last Thursday. I have 147 bucks and a car. The house went to sherrif’s sale in November. Eviction is any second now. I’ve seen them in action. None of that will make a bit of difference to those legalized extortionists in DC.

See here’s the crux of the matter. They WANT me on their social welfare rolls under the assumption that I represent another vote for somebody else’s money in my pocket. They need me to need them. I will starve myself AND my family to death before I will take one dime of their filthy payoff money. Do you people hear me? They will NEVER absorb me and mine into their godless collectivist mass of nursing dependent zombies.

The pressure is overwhelming but I sleep like a baby. I really do. Ya know why? Because my hope is not in this wretched pitiful world or this once great now decaying country. The God I love and serve commanded the universe to exist from nothing by the breath of His mouth and sustains it every millisecond by the power of His Word. He is not mystified by my piddly financial situation. He has already done infinitely and eternally more for me than I deserve. I owe Him all that I am and all that I have exactly BECAUSE He has not only cancelled all my debts, but given me His inheritance. Yes, that makes perfect sense from an authentic Christian standpoint. He owes me nothing. I will lift my hands and my voice in praise to His glorious name whether He makes me a billionaire or I have to scratch and scrape for the rest of my natural life just to survive.

Couldn’t help the sermonette folks. The bottom line is we can talk on and on for weeks. I AM miles below the poverty line and they ARE bleeding me to death.[/quote]

Pay attention Trib, you are being taxed at that rate because you are in business. If you made 14-k last year pumping gas you would pay ZIP!

The government punishes business and in general success. While you are not successful (financially) you are still in business and got caught in the cross hairs.

Are we clear?

238

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Hey Zeb , no hard feelings here , I did say with all due respect :)[/quote]

My Christian sense tells me to forgive you. My worldly sense tells me something else.

Hmmm…

239

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I think the real question here Zeb Do you understand Capital Gains taxes ? Have you ever paid them ? I have a couple years where my Capital Gains were %50 of my income .[/quote]
Dude, I’m in the top tax bracket, we pay 35% on our income. Then after tax, we invest some of that money. We then pay 15% capital gains tax.
What’s not to understand?
Sure there are deductions, but that’s the basics.
IF all of your income is from investments ie; capital gains, then sure, you only pay 15%.
But that’s only for the Warren Buffett types, not regular working people.[/quote]

The number of people who are actually wealthy enough to live off of capital gains income probably number less than 5,000 people.

That is just a guess but I’d be surprised if it were many more than that. And so what if there were? They earned the money paid the top tax percentage on it they then invested it and pay additional 15% on it and they are now wealthy.

When did that become wrong in America?

[/quote]
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with it at all. I hope for it to be me in the next 10 years. It’s a goal we have. Seriously.
The misinformation both sides put out is outrageous. Like when the Dems say “Republicans are gonna cut your SS” Well, they propose cutting the planned increases, that’s all. If you get $100 a month in SS, and it’s slated to go to $110, the proposal is cut 50%. Of the proposal. So you’d get $105, not $50.
People who take the news at face value are sheep.
Baahhh…(pointed at you Pitbull)
[/quote]

I do not understand your post , There is no disinformation that a dollar Mitt earns is worth 85 cents and mine is worth 67 cents what is disinformative about that . [/quote]
Right. His income now comes from investments. Your’s doesn’t. What’s the problem?
[/quote]

So Mitt makes more money than i with other money I make less money than Mitt with sweat . So My Dollar should be worth less . I got it (NOT)
[/quote]

Your phrasology is amusing.

You said Romney makes more money with “other money.” Now where do you suppose he got that “other money?” He did it by working hard and taking risks. AND when he made it originally he paid the maximum tax of 40% or so on it, which is more than you pay on your earned income! The fact that he was smart enough to place it in wise investments (and is not taxed again on that money) should be a credit to the man. But we seem to live in a world where good is now bad and bad is now good.

We applaud those who march up and down the street with signs saying “give me free stuff” and we attack ass kickers like Romney and others who went out and made a forutne on their own.

Think what you want Pitt – I’m done walking you through this stuff. If you don’t understand it by now you’ve fully swallowed the class warfare that your hero Obama is pushing. The rich are just bad people and they need 90% of their income taken away.

240

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I think the real question here Zeb Do you understand Capital Gains taxes ? Have you ever paid them ? I have a couple years where my Capital Gains were %50 of my income .[/quote]
Dude, I’m in the top tax bracket, we pay 35% on our income. Then after tax, we invest some of that money. We then pay 15% capital gains tax.
What’s not to understand?
Sure there are deductions, but that’s the basics.
IF all of your income is from investments ie; capital gains, then sure, you only pay 15%.
But that’s only for the Warren Buffett types, not regular working people.[/quote]

The number of people who are actually wealthy enough to live off of capital gains income probably number less than 5,000 people.

That is just a guess but I’d be surprised if it were many more than that. And so what if there were? They earned the money paid the top tax percentage on it they then invested it and pay additional 15% on it and they are now wealthy.

When did that become wrong in America?

[/quote]
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with it at all. I hope for it to be me in the next 10 years. It’s a goal we have. Seriously.
The misinformation both sides put out is outrageous. Like when the Dems say “Republicans are gonna cut your SS” Well, they propose cutting the planned increases, that’s all. If you get $100 a month in SS, and it’s slated to go to $110, the proposal is cut 50%. Of the proposal. So you’d get $105, not $50.
People who take the news at face value are sheep.
Baahhh…(pointed at you Pitbull)
[/quote]

I do not understand your post , There is no disinformation that a dollar Mitt earns is worth 85 cents and mine is worth 67 cents what is disinformative about that . [/quote]
Right. His income now comes from investments. Your’s doesn’t. What’s the problem?
[/quote]

So Mitt makes more money than i with other money I make less money than Mitt with sweat . So My Dollar should be worth less . I got it (NOT)
[/quote]

The better question is that, on top of all the good he does in the economy, why should he pay more to be a citizen than you? He probably pays for 100 times as much for all your social programs as you do. How is that “fair”.