Biology of Race

Here’s why:

“Black families, regardless of income, are significantly less wealthy than white families. The Pew Research Center estimates that white households are worth roughly 20 times as much as black households, and that whereas only 15 percent of whites have zero or negative wealth, more than a third of blacks do. Effectively, the black family in America is working without a safety net. When financial calamity strikes—a medical emergency, divorce, job loss—the fall is precipitous.” [emphasis mine]

And:

"The academic achievement gap or income gap may get the headlines, but for sheer outrage, you can’t beat the racial inequity of America’s wealth gap.

That’s because wealth — the total value of assets, from houses and cars to bank accounts and investments — barely exists for black families in the United States. The median wealth of non-Hispanic black households dropped by more than one-third between 2010 and 2013, to $13,700, according to the Pew Research Center, citing Federal Reserve data. Meanwhile, in 2013 the average white household wealth was 13 times greater — $141,900 — than that of black households, up from eight times greater than black households in 2010, Pew reported.

Wealth is crucial for mobility. A family with a house and investments gives its children a good start in life — a boost up the ladder, as it were. Wealth also means there is property, real and financial, to leave to those children through inheritance. This is how white parents help their children “do better” than they did on the wealth meter. Not so with black families. The number of black families with negative wealth — more debt than assets — vastly outnumbers the Oprahs of this world: Approximately 35 percent of African-American households have a zero or negative net worth, according to Pew. A few months of unemployment can wipe them out. As a consequence, black children are unlikely to earn and own more than their parents, greasing their slide down the wealth ladder." [emphasis mine]

You always wonder why someone chooses the particular authorities to cite that they do. For example, when discussing matters concerning economics and race, why do conservatives so often rely on the works of Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams? While both are perfectly respectable economists, neither has done anything in the field to warrant the sort of lopsided attention they receive. Makes ya wonder…

Likewise, they would ask themselves why conservatives insist on cherry-picking correlations and inferring causation from them.

Another ‘agree to disagree’ impasse.

I beg to differ. Tolerance in no way requires either respect or trust. I tolerate many people for whom I have not a shred of either, and would be willing to bet the same is true for you.

Again, while I agree progress has been made, I think you are way overestimating where race relations currently stand on what might be called the ‘Kumbaya’ scale.

Forgive me, but, you can’t be serious–you’re going to claim that, despite offering nary a shred of supporting evidence, your hypothetical concerns are more valid than someone else’s hypothetical concerns?

Reparations are not about punishment. So rather than unbeatable, this argument is actually not an argument at all.

What they’re about doesnt matter. Intent doesn’t override reality. Idealism doesn’t override logic.

The logistics aside, reparations are about making things whole. To make things whole requires they currently aren’t whole (I acknowledge fully). To acknowledge things aren’t whole requires a reason for why they aren’t in the first place. This can only lead to finding a “reason” that things aren’t whole. In this case it happens to be white ancestors of current people.

You can call it a reason or blame or however you want to phrase it. A rose by any other name and all that jazz

To put this video in perspective; that county that the Lumbee tribe is in, is the poorest county in North Carolina. Some of those folks are doing well, but much of Robeson county looks like shit. I do appreciate him trying to highlight some of the nice parts though, and understand the arguments it is making. They’re just a bit fallacious.

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Ok, if you feel that way, as I mentioned earlier, use “acceptance”. Fine with me.[quote=“EyeDentist, post:1476, topic:228119”]
Again, while I agree progress has been made, I think you are way overestimating where race relations currently stand on what might be called the ‘Kumbaya’ scale.
[/quote]

I don’t think race relations are at any kind of “Kumbaya” stage, nor have I said so - but real progress has been made. Pretending otherwise ignores realities and many of the great civil rights victories achieved. And I have no interest in taking unreasonable risks to endanger those victories.

And as an aside, I spend a great deal of time with (non-white) at-risk youth - I’m not opining on race relations from a gated suburban community or a gentrified liberal enclave (not saying you are). My point is, I see race-relations and the troubles of the black community up close and plenty personal. This isn’t a navel gazing exercise for me.[quote=“EyeDentist, post:1476, topic:228119”]
Forgive me, but, you can’t be serious–you’re going to claim that, despite offering nary a shred of supporting evidence, your hypothetical concerns are more valid than someone else’s hypothetical concerns?
[/quote]

I’m offering some very real concerns - if someone wants to present reasons why those concerns are unfounded with real-world applicability, I’m all ears, but I haven’t heard them yet.[quote=“EyeDentist, post:1476, topic:228119”]
Reparations are not about punishment. So rather than unbeatable, this argument is actually not an argument at all.
[/quote]

You don’t get to control whether it is or isn’t perceived as punishment, and importantly, it functions as one. Reparations forcibly require someone to to pay someone else for wrongdoing done for which the original someone is responsible. That meets the definition of punishment no matter how you cut it, and it will be perceived that way, any attempts at Orwellian doublespeak to frame it a different way notwithstanding.

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Hey all, I’m signing off from this thread, as I find myself getting more worked up about it than I would like. (Needless to say, this is no one’s fault but my own.) Apologies if my recent comments offended. (Full disclosure: I have not read any comments added since my last one.) Thanks all for the stimulating conversation, and see y’all on the other threads.

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Thoroughly enjoyed it, and though we didn’t see eye to eye on reparations, I greatly respect your take and appreciate your thoughts. I think I speak for everyone when I say more ED* is needed around here, not less.

*Eye Dentist, not erectile dysfunction.

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Is eyedentist a communist?

I almost get the impression he isn’t far off from one.

You raise a great point that reminds me of something that has interested me for a while - once African Americans get to college, what do they major in? What does the data bear out?

College-educated blacks are only a subset of the larger black community, of course, and I don’t pretend that they are symbolic of the whole - but I’ve always wondered what the statistics say about where blacks choose to focus their education once they are in the doors of the college.

I honestly have no idea what the data say. But if they aren’t choosing the fields that are most lucrative to generate higher income, why not? If STEM is where the money is, and blacks aren’t picking STEM majors, what is the explanation? Is there not enough STEM in the schools they graduate from?

More education is generally better for higher incomes, as we know, but everyone knows an engineer will do better than the cliched art history major. And if African Americans aren’t heading into the more lucrative majors, that’s a point to address.

Hey @EyeDentist what do you think of people like me who can pass for African American applying for affirmative action tested benefits?

I should do it just because I enjoy mocking your stupid beliefs

Don’t feel silly, it was a great post.

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If you’re ever around…I’ll show you! Love this place.

I have seen/heard about poverty on Indian reservations…it’s saddening.

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And from a University of Maryland 2009 study, Race and Gender Differences in College Major Choice

“The results demonstrate that significant differences by gender, race and ethnicity persist in initial college major choice even after controlling for the SAT score of the student and the high school class rank of the student. Gender differences in major choice are much larger than racial and ethnic disparities. Furthermore, women are significantly more likely to switch away from an initial major in engineering than are white men.”

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Words have a “gender”. People have a sex.

Neuroscientist Sam Harris admits differences in intelligence between races is possible but considers this research potentially dangerous and admits it’s stigmatized

So I need to dig into the study, but if this is the case, how do we fix this? Or do we?

I don’t believe that any ethnic group or gender should be penalized (let’s avoid that nasty word ‘punished’) in order to lift up another group that is not choosing a certain major. I am not a fan of any policy move that leaves out the carrot in favor of the stick where individual choices for academics are concerned. But I wonder what underpins this divide as far as ethnic lines are concerned.

It’s interesting because you’re doing the exact things that Sam is warning against in that video. This of course doesn’t touch your misunderstandings of the literature or what constitutes evidence. For that matter, your position is different, but you either dont understand or don’t recognize that

I don’t agree with him on the “dangers.” I think the more knowledge we have the better. Suppressing knowledge because you consider it dangerous is a slippery slope.

Furthermore he’s only an authority on the scientific portion - whether racial differences in intelligence is possible.

do you have any actual stances on racial differences in intelligence?

I could see racial differences in IQ being significant if everybody were working to the very edge of their abilities.

Minus that it becomes inconsequential, and I have almost no doubt that the vast majority of people do not do that.

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http://www.nature.com/news/poverty-shrinks-brains-from-birth-1.17227?WT.mc_id=TWT_NatureNews

Poverty shrinks the brain apparently… Not that lesser intelligent people are born with smaller brains