[quote]Gkhan wrote:
If what you are saying is true, shouldn’t those people hate us? [/quote]
Oh, they hate you, alright. They just hate the Baathists more.
I condemn Russians for selling weapons. Happy now?
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
- How many Kurds did we save from death with the no-fly zones in Iraq, and who are our best allies in that country? The Kurds. [/quote]
How many Kurdish deaths were you responsible for by giving Iraq and Turkey weapons they coud use in their long history of repressing the Kurds?
Yeah…and I see a lot more Toyotas than I see Bentleys.
Get real. M-16’s are for dummies!
Not if you frowned upon them!
I guess I just did. (see above post)
For what it’s worth, who dragged the other into an insane militarization? You guessed right. It was the one that used to spend 5% on the military, and still came out with overall superior products to the one that spent 40% and drove its economy to the ground.
That said, the Russians are responsible plenty for the massacres that use USSR weapons.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
I did not say that the US invaded Iraq to save the Shia. I said the reason there was not secretarian violence in the country
was because you had a dictator in charge who killed any opposition. To compare this to the Turks and Indonesians is just another way for you to spew your anti-american venom. [/quote]
I just re-read your post and I evidently got carried away because of your usage of “mass graves”. Sorry about that.
[quote]What happened in Syria in Hama, Darfur in Sudan? Syria, Sudan have never been allies of the US. How did they commit those atrocities with out US weapons and support? Or are they ok in your eyes since there was/is no US
involvement? [/quote]
Of course, there are horrors commited without US support! The US or its allies don’t have a monopoly on state terrorism or atrocities.
Other countries don’t have the influence the US has on the international political scene.
Also, their political systems are nowhere close to a democracy. You can whine all day about Assad and his secret service without getting any change. Syrians know about it but their hands are tied by a bloody dictator.
Lixy,
Being Muslim, perhaps you can explain the difference between Shia and Sunni, and why the people there see this difference as a reason to kill one another.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
lixy wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Wouldn’t pulling out give bin laden a victory and the will to go on?
Ben Laden had a victory the day you walked into Baghdad. He probably also rejoiced when Bush won his 2nd term.
The will to go on is irrelevant for the kind of monster who seems to delight at the death of innocents. He’s not after anything and that’s why you can’t discourage him.
Now that this is out of the way, I don’t think Ben Laden represents a threat anymore. He is the world’s most wanted fugitive and in that position, there’s not much you can accomplish. However, he unleashed the beast that is global terrorism and there’s no way you can put it back in the box using violence. Matter of fact, it feeds on the very violence you throw at it. You need to act on the causes instead of the quixotic journey you embarked on. And as painful as that may sound to some of you, the answer lies somewhere at the intersection of Chavez’s speeches, Ben Laden’s rhetoric, UN general assembly resolutions, world’s public opinion and Eisenhower’s '61 address.
It seems to me that you folks stopped using your brains after 9/11 and started making decisions with your hearts. I empathize with that and want you to know that the trauma was general. Now, it seems to me that most of you are coming out of the delusional state you were in (We have the strongest military on Earth, therefore we can crush those ants!) and, like any Sunday morning hangover, are contemplating the extent of the damage you’ve caused. Yes, a little bit more alcohol will clear your head for a while, but it can only worsen the condition in which you’ll spend the rest of your day.
In short, no. Pulling out of Iraq will not be a victory for Ben Laden. It will certainly be one for the Iraqis who can finally start dealing with the wreckage you caused. It’ll be a victory for the (largely) disfortunate young kids who can finally come home to their loved ones. I’ll be a victory for the secular and moderates in Iraq who can finally have a chance of rallying people to their cause. It’ll be a victory for the great number of veterans, intellectuals, students, journalists, politicians as well as the mothers and fathers who have been trying to talk some sense out of Bush for four years now. Most of all, it’ll be a victory for those of us who believe a better world is possible.
Peace.
lixy,
Next time you talk to bin laden, tell him that Rudy is coming.
Let me know how he takes that.
JeffR
[/quote]
Fuck Rudy
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Ren wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Reid (especially) and Nancy should be put on trial for treason.
For disagreeing with the war? Or what exactly is your reason behind that?
What would you think of a US Senator if he said, in 1942, that the war is lost? Japan has beaten us. The Nazis and Hirohito can now take over.
Traitors, all of them.
[/quote]
In 1942 we had Honorable men in office. Now, we have liars who want that oil! Why would Cheney turn away from a $27 mil/year job to take a second seat to a man who he is obviously smarter than. And then he gives the contract to his former co. to get that oil, BOYS!!! Yee Haw! Texas Justice!
If we wanted this over, we’d drop a bomb just like in '45, gosh, you guys would defend a tree stump.
[quote]micromuscle wrote:
Fuck Rudy[/quote]
Hey, micro, which democratic candidate do you plan on supporting?
Thanks in advance,
JeffR
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Being Muslim, perhaps you can explain the difference between Shia and Sunni, and why the people there see this difference as a reason to kill one another.[/quote]
I can understand why the Iraqi Sunnis would be pissed and start bombing the hell out of the Americans and the Shi’ites. After all, they saw all of their advantages vanish after the fall of Saddam. Not that it excuses their barbaric behaviour, but it should give some perspective to consider that.
Anyway, the conflict has little to do with ideology. Rather, it’s purely political and all about power. To give you an analogy, it’s like if someone took the money and political power of the rich in the US and redistributed it.
The rich and powerful minority (Sunnis) will get really pissed and fight back with all their force. Fight are bound to break even between workers (Shia) as the Friedman-fanatics crowd will feel opressed whereas Neo-Marxists will like the change. Of course, you won’t hear about all the moderate people stuck in the middle (the regular folks who don’t give a damn and just wanna get along with their lives).
The sweat shop slaves (Kurds) will of course jubilate. That was a dirty bit, but it should illustrate the point.
Now, if you’re really looking to educate yourself on the Shia/Sunni split, I suggest you read the following.
Here’s also an Islamic perspective.
[quote]pookie wrote:
b25 wrote:
This is funny to me… The U.S. Military is good at one thing, and one thing only… WINNING. This is precisely what we did during the initial engagement in Iraq (nevermind the folks that stepped back into the wood-work, only to come out later). We kicked ass… the problem is with the sustainment phase of this mission - it is absolutely hosed!
If a mission calls for the army to do 2 or 3 different phases, and the army is only able to do one of them, shouldn’t those who are planning the war postpone it until they figure out how to wage all of it?
There has been so much stupidity, ignorance and cultural insensivity displayed by those at the top, it’s no wonder you’re in deep shit in Iraq. Those planning the war knew nothing about Iraq, nothing about it’s people, culture or mores. They’ve been wrong about every prediction they made for the last 4 years.
Unfortunately, a large portion of this is attributable to the Democrats and the liberal media who have succeeded in undermining our troops (tieing their hands, exploiting bad conduct, etc) and our country at EVERY turn.
Of course, it’s the democrats fault. It’s the democrats who converted part of the population to Kurdism and split the rest unevenly between Sunni and Shia. It’s the democrats who moved all the oil to the southern part of the country. It’s the democrat who keep the borders open for Iran and Syria…
The republicans had control of both houses and presidency until 2006. Tell me how they were prevented to do what they needed to do except by their own stupidity and incompetence. AMERICAN VOTERS gave back both houses to democrats and I would bet, will also give them the presidency at the next election because such incompetency and stupidity borders on the criminal. Not everyone is deaf, dumb and blind.
We have fueled the fire from within… the islamofacist scum running around in the middle east are laughing at us; at our shear ignorance and inability to follow through with what we said we would… Sadly many of you folks don’t understand the repercussions of not having this thing go our way.
How could it go your way? It was misplanned, misguided, mismanaged from day 1. You expect to fuck up every step of the way and still get to destination? This ain’t a fucking movie where America always pulls it off in the end, this is the real world.
[/quote]
Sadly it will be exchanging the current stupidity for a whole different set of stupidity.
and on it goes.