Bin Laden Directing Iraq?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
pookie wrote:
DS 007 wrote:
Ask yourselves this: IF Al Qaeda, Bin Laden, President of Iran, Kim Jung Il, anyone out there who has an overarching desire to kill Americans…IF any of these people had a vote, who do you think they’d vote for? We all KNOW they pimped for Kerry in '04.

Why not do away with all that democracy crap? Instead, let’s poll all the rogue nations and ask who they’d like in office and then (and this is the master stroke of this plan) name King of the US the other candidate?

That’s it? That’s your retort? [/quote]

It’s already a lot more than your idiotic claims merit. Everything you said is complete crap; your worldview is so off-kilter and deranged that there’s really no point in trying to debate it reasonably, as reason never showed itself anywhere in anything you wrote.

You can expect a lot of jokes to be made about your thoughts and not much else.

42

[quote]marmadogg wrote:
Another pathetic troll thread by Jeff.

ROTFLMFAO!

Neither the Republicans nor Democrats have any credibility on Iraq.

We F’ed up and we are now on the wrong side of history.[/quote]

Hey, marmaprick!!!

It’s been a long time.

How is the embalming business going?

Let me guess, if world leaders would have listened to the “independent” voice, we would be in a much more peaceful state.

Why don’t you fax along your enlightened ideas to Washington. I’m sure they would appreciate a good laugh.

JeffR

43

[quote]pookie wrote:
DS 007 wrote:
pookie wrote:
DS 007 wrote:
Ask yourselves this: IF Al Qaeda, Bin Laden, President of Iran, Kim Jung Il, anyone out there who has an overarching desire to kill Americans…IF any of these people had a vote, who do you think they’d vote for? We all KNOW they pimped for Kerry in '04.

Why not do away with all that democracy crap? Instead, let’s poll all the rogue nations and ask who they’d like in office and then (and this is the master stroke of this plan) name King of the US the other candidate?

That’s it? That’s your retort?

It’s already a lot more than your idiotic claims merit. Everything you said is complete crap; your worldview is so off-kilter and deranged that there’s really no point in trying to debate it reasonably, as reason never showed itself anywhere in anything you wrote.

You can expect a lot of jokes to be made about your thoughts and not much else.

[/quote]

brilliant! still waiting to hear why it makes sense to support the views of people who want to see YOU, personally, DEAD.

44

JeffR,

You seem like an intelligent person. And telling from your the depth of your knowledge, I’d say that you’re pretty advanced in age. Yet, you do nothing but throw uncalled-for ad hominems, non-funny sarcastic comments and don’t give any arguments refuting the positions of your opponents.

Consider acting like an adult please.

Thank you,

The “politics and world issues” crew on T-Nation.

45

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
brilliant! still waiting to hear why it makes sense to support the views of people who want to see YOU, personally, DEAD.[/quote]

Don’t you ever get tired of cowering in fear? You like being afraid of imaginary bogeymen all the time? Voting away your rights and privacy to corporate shills who keep feeding you bullshit and lies while they and their cronies rob you blind?

Grab your blankie and keep shaking with fear every time a bushie tells you about all the evildoers out to get you. Don’t think about it; let them think for you. Just concentrate on being afraid and support anything they want to do.

It’s for your own good.

46

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
Does it acutally make SENSE to you dumb fuckers that you support the same people that people who want you DEAD support? Fucking idiots. Seriously, the stupidity is absolutely mind-boggling. [/quote]

Common sense and logic are anathema to the libs. They regard a terrorist’s desire to kill you and your desire to live as a matter of opinion.

47

[quote]JeffR wrote:

Let me guess, if world leaders would have listened to the “independent” voice, we would be in a much more peaceful state.

Why don’t you fax along your enlightened ideas to Washington. I’m sure they would appreciate a good laugh.

JeffR
[/quote]

This is perfect. A complete summation of not only what is wrong with Jeffy but our nation’s leadership in general. Real patriots that love this country have no political affiliation and actually practice their inalienable right as Americans to have an independent view on what is best for their country and not just for some political parties’ or some companies’ best interests.

This independent thought is scoffed at by the blind two party system that doesn’t seek real justice or freedom but to serve their own greedy interests and ultimately are the bane of American society.

In a free country with a democratic process, such as ours, you would think that having an independent idea that stems not from party affiliation but a true concern for how our government is running, would be taken from the fax and considered and debated. But sadly as Jeffy all too truly points out it is most likely laughed at.

48

[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Now that they know that homicide bombings are a useful tool, when will they try it (again) here, and more of them?

Yeah, they weren’t sure that exploding car in crowds of people would have any effect, they had to run experiments to confirm the efficiency of the method.

And while they had tons of occasion to try it here, they politely decided to test it out in Iraq first, so as to not disturb the neighbors needlessly in case the method turned out to be a dud. Sensitive people, those terrorists.

And how fair would it be to try it here while a large portion of your National Guard is away? Asymmetric warfare is, after all, based on fairness and not playing dirty.

Yup, your views sure make a lot of sense. You should run for office.

[/quote]

If homicide bombers in Iraq can make the Senate Majority leader cry ‘Uncle’, then…hmmm…let’s try it in New York or Montreal (what with you in Afghanistan and all). Maybe it’ll work even better there!!

Maybe if they did it here though, we might actually decide to fight? Maybe even Canada will fight — then they’ve REALLY got something to fear.

49

[quote]LNEX wrote:
the major problem with this is the fact that both Dems and Rep are power hungry dogs that care about the next election more than the state of America. The war in Iraq was a BAD idea that hurt the US.

Pulling out now I think is just a bad idea and saying that we lost and are defeated is wrong. But to say were doing just fine in Iraq, and standing in front of banner saying mission accomplished is the same as the Iraqis saying that they are driving out the invading dogs when we are pulling down the Sadam statues in Baghdad.

truth be told it’s a bad situation and no one has a honest solution to the problem.

truth be told it’s a bad situation and no one has a honest solution to the problem. [/quote]

Carpet bombing — learn to love it!

50

[quote]pookie wrote:
DS 007 wrote:
brilliant! still waiting to hear why it makes sense to support the views of people who want to see YOU, personally, DEAD.

Don’t you ever get tired of cowering in fear? You like being afraid of imaginary bogeymen all the time? Voting away your rights and privacy to corporate shills who keep feeding you bullshit and lies while they and their cronies rob you blind?

Grab your blankie and keep shaking with fear every time a bushie tells you about all the evildoers out to get you. Don’t think about it; let them think for you. Just concentrate on being afraid and support anything they want to do.

It’s for your own good.

[/quote]

USS Cole, WTC I and II, Lebanon, embassies, nightclubs, trains and subways…

Why do you want to leave this country (USA) open to such attacks? Its a new world. The old world of trusting and assuming the best about people (esp Muslims) is gone.

You want to forbid, for ex, the ability of the NSA to listen in on phone calls between known terrorists? What’s your agenda here, Pookie?

You want to forbid us from opening mail from Pakistan, to known terrorists, all the time calling OUR government evil? Again, what’s your agenda here, Pookie?

51

[quote]lixy wrote:
JeffR,

You seem like an intelligent person. And telling from your the depth of your knowledge, I’d say that you’re pretty advanced in age. Yet, you do nothing but throw uncalled-for ad hominems, non-funny sarcastic comments and don’t give any arguments refuting the positions of your opponents.

Consider acting like an adult please.

Thank you,

The “politics and world issues” crew on T-Nation.[/quote]

lixy,

One of the few things about you that I can respect is your nerve. To annoint yourself as the supreme ayatollah of this board, makes me smile.

I think I can speak for many of the posters: Your responses rarely merit more than insults.

To test my theory, I closed my eyes, scrolled down to a random sentence in your post earlier in this thread. This is as close to taking a random sentence as I could get.

This is what I landed on:

“It will certainly be one for the Iraqis who can finally start dealing with the wreckage you caused.”

This sort of comment is typical of your “analysis.” It is shallow, and self-serving. It is predicated on falsehoods.

Yes, there was war damage. No, the majority wasn’t caused by the United States.

In fact, Americans are dying trying to restore and IMPROVE existing infrastructure.

Here is a decent summary from last month.

www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10304&Itemid=128

Now, lixy, to sum up, it isn’t that the Good Guys don’t have arguments that destroy your stupid Anti-American slogans.

We know what you seek. We know your goals.

For the most part, we just don’t like to waste our time on you.

We know that your brigade commanders will eventually remove you if we don’t buy your propaganda.

Unfortunately, there are Americans on this very site who are more than willing to help you win this war.

JeffR

52

[quote]pookie wrote:
DS 007 wrote:
brilliant! still waiting to hear why it makes sense to support the views of people who want to see YOU, personally, DEAD.

Don’t you ever get tired of cowering in fear? You like being afraid of imaginary bogeymen all the time? Voting away your rights and privacy to corporate shills who keep feeding you bullshit and lies while they and their cronies rob you blind?

Grab your blankie and keep shaking with fear every time a bushie tells you about all the evildoers out to get you. Don’t think about it; let them think for you. Just concentrate on being afraid and support anything they want to do.

It’s for your own good.

[/quote]

hilarious stuff. now let’s move away from your plagarized leftist talking points and deal in reality. reality is a place in which i, as a citizen of the USA who obeys the law, have yet to realize that i have, in fact, surrendered any kind of liberty, right, etc.

now, as for robbing me blind: i work for the same organization i worked for in 2001. i now make over 30K more than i did then. i have recieved and accepted three promotions in that time. so, i haven’t been beated down by the bushies and had to surrender my paycheck to haliburton, despite what you may hear on air america.

lastly, i’m not afraid of imaginary boogeymen. truth be told, i’m not afraid. but then, i’m sure that the folks sitting at their desks at the world trade center were not afraid either. see, that actually happened. bush and his buddies didn’t have to convince me that those towers were knocked down by jets flown into them by terrorists. i saw it. i happen to actually have KNOWN several people who are not longer alive because they had the misfortune of being on one of those flights, ASSHOLE.

acknowledging reality is not the same thing as cowering in fear. your turn.

53

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Yes, there was war damage. No, the majority wasn’t caused by the United States.
[/quote]

Oh! I see now. You invade a country then duck your head in the sand saying “All we did was blow up all their infrastructure and dismantle all governmental entities. We didn’t cause the rest”. It is a childish attitude at best.

You don’t seem to understand how causality works. When you knock down the pillars of a building and it ultimately collapses, you can’t say that you didn’t cause the majority of the damage and claim that you only knocked down a couple of supporting structures. You caused ALL the damage. Period.

54

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
If homicide bombers in Iraq can make the Senate Majority leader cry ‘Uncle’, then…hmmm…let’s try it in New York or Montreal (what with you in Afghanistan and all). Maybe it’ll work even better there!![/quote]

From the potholes in our streets, you’d think they already struck.

Maybe the next time we could fight the right people and actually plan the damn war before jumping in the wrong place with both feet. Maybe the next time you guys can stick around and see a war through instead of letting NATO try and clean up your mess.

Afghanistan might have gone much better had we gotten rid of the warlords instead of letting them keep on running the show. The people of the country might be happier to see you if you actually enacted change, instead of installing your token puppet government behind which all the brutal assholes they hated are still pulling the strings.

55

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
USS Cole, WTC I and II, Lebanon, embassies, nightclubs, trains and subways…

Why do you want to leave this country (USA) open to such attacks? Its a new world. The old world of trusting and assuming the best about people (esp Muslims) is gone.[/quote]

New world? Guerilla tactics and terrorists are nothing new. Stop lapping up everything that’s served to you the the right wing nuts in DC and think a bit.

Well, it’s your country, so I don’t have a say. But, if I was you, I’d like the checks and balances to remain. Giving the government carte blanche at any process is just asking for the process to be abused eventually.

They do it even with the checks and balances in place, imagine without them.

Again, I don’t want to prevent any investigations - 9/11 was a gross failure by all the intelligence agencies, they need to do better. I’m all for them having all the tools they need, but within reason. I wish they’d stop concentrating on the useless security theater we get all the time and I wish they’d stop reacting to methods after they’ve been tried and instead concentrated on things that don’t impress Joe Public on the news, but that actually increase security.

Instead, we get a bunch of measures that make it look like they’re doing something (removing your shoes at airports; confiscating your shampoo; frisking grannies and babies) but that actually make you 0% safer.

56

[quote]lixy wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Yes, there was war damage. No, the majority wasn’t caused by the United States.

Oh! I see now. You invade a country then duck your head in the sand saying “All we did was blow up all their infrastructure and dismantle all governmental entities. We didn’t cause the rest”. It is a childish attitude at best.

You don’t seem to understand how causality works. When you knock down the pillars of a building and it ultimately collapses, you can’t say that you didn’t cause the majority of the damage and claim that you only knocked down a couple of supporting structures. You caused ALL the damage. Period.[/quote]

Here’s some casuality for you: All the damage was due to bin laden/saddam.

Think it through.

The difference, of course, is the U.S. is shedding blood to clean up the damage.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

JeffR

57

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
now, as for robbing me blind: i work for the same organization i worked for in 2001. i now make over 30K more than i did then. i have recieved and accepted three promotions in that time. so, i haven’t been beated down by the bushies and had to surrender my paycheck to haliburton, despite what you may hear on air america.[/quote]

I didn’t mean you personally, twit. A whole bunch of your social services have been cut. Millions of American have no health insurance. Your education system is a complete joke. You’ve got the worst infantile mortality rate of all western countries except for Latvia. The deficit you’re racking up will bite you in the ass eventually.

Because a bunch of incompetents clowns were not doing there job properly. Who was there when it happened? Oh right, Bush in the White House and Rudy in NY. Giuliani was so clueless that he put his Office of Emergency Management in the WTC complex.

And now we’ve got a bunch of idiots clamoring for Rudy and his dresses to move to the Whitehouse because he’s now the man for the job. Right.

So the people on whose watch all that happen have nothing to do with it and the blame is all on those who criticize them for sleeping at the wheel? Typical wingnut logic.

Is that the reality where Saddam had stockpiles of ready-to-use WMDs? Is that the reality where the insurgent have been in their last throes of agony since May 2005? Is that the reality where the Iraqis greeted you as liberators? The reality where Iraq is soon to be a shinning beacon of democracy in the region?

Because if it is, news flash for you buddy, that’s not the one you’re actually living in. Turn off Fox News once in a while and diversify your sources.

58

[quote]JeffR wrote:
ren wrote:
if there is any al-qaeda in Iraq, thank GWB.

Come on dems.

You can do better than “It’s George’s fault.”

Or, the canadian’s perspective.

I was hoping for some serious analysis.

Something along the lines of: “Today is April 25th, 2007 and if we leave, this will happen.”

Or even, some self-reflection.

I see one hell of a lot of Republicans critical of Republicans.

I see NEXT TO NOTHING being said by democrats about democrats.

If we are going to have real dialogue, there must be at LEAST an appearance of open discussion.

There are a few guys on here that SIMPLY CANNOT be happy with pelosi in Syria or the dems trying to cut funding. You CANNOT be happy with reid waffling about meeting with W. to discuss the issues and being openly supportive of your colleague meeting assad of syria.

Throw out the bradley’s and the renny’s.

I just have to believe that a few of you dems have SECRETLY had some misgivings about your party’s direction.

Perhaps I’m wrong, but, I expect more from guys like fighting irish and beowolf than “it’s all George’s fault.”

JeffR

[/quote]

You seem to be very deaf. The dems rip on the dems plenty.

We sat through this bullshit, and allowed the GOP to start a fiasco of a war. A stupid, wrong, and just plain awful war.

They sat like pussies and bent to the fear of the “WMDs” and the “imminent threat”.

And why Isn’t it Georges fault?

Give us a good reason? Would Osama be there if we hadn’t invaded, giving him a pool to recruit from? Thats what this thread is about, not leaving Iraq.

I’m not happy about the fund cuts. Are you not happy that Bush isn’t listening to the majority of Congress and setting a pull out date? He’s hurting our troops by extending their tours, only a day after saying he’d never do anything to make our soldier stay longer. You pissed about that?

Fund cutting isn’t the answer. Impeachment is. Bush won’t listen. We’ve tried his plan. We gave him patience he never gave the UN weapons inspectors. Now we want out.

“Today is April 26th, 2007 and if we leave, thousands of Iraqis will die in the Civil War we’ve created. But no more Americans will. Rich Americans will lose money. Our sons will come home. And finally, the Iraqis will be forced to stand the fuck up so we can stand down. It’ll probably fall to Iran or Syria, but that’s going to happen eventually anyway. We’re just putting off the inevitable. It is an unwinnable war as long as the Iraqis don’t want to step up. And right now, they just want us gone. Why the hell is that going to change when we “surge” and extra handful of troops? It’s already a breeding ground for terrorists. We made it one. Lets at least leave before we lose anymore American lives.”

That do it for you?

What do you disapprove of, in Bush’s latest set of actions? Lets hear, shall we? Open discussion and all.

59

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Here’s some casuality for you: All the damage was due to bin laden/saddam. [/quote]

We’re still talking about Iraq, right? What’s Ben Laden gotta do with you invading Iraq? Last I checked, Saddam was your best shot at keeping Islamists out of Iraq.

Yes, Saddam was a selfish prick and he bears a great deal of responsibility for the suffering of the Iraqis. Can’t argue with that. But attacking a country on nothing more than suspicion is utterly irresponsible. I think we can all agree on that.

You have been lied to by your leader. The cost of that was is lives of thousands Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. A country is in ruin because of that. And you still give the guy the benefit of the doubt? I think the Bush administration is pleased with what it has accomplished (wrecking a country and creating a breeding ground for terrorists( for two reasons: They get to choose what corporation is getting juicy contracts and they managed to destabilize the region even further, so that they can keep their troops there forever. All the critics think he’s just an idiot. I believe that he’s an evil genius who don’t give a damn about your security, is only looking out for his interests and has everybody fooled.

60

[quote]Beowolf wrote:

Fund cutting isn’t the answer. Impeachment is. Bush won’t listen.[/quote]

Wait - did you really just type that?