Good video push(and others)
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
I don’t see any logical inconsistency in this statement :
“Sometime between 5700 and 10 000 years ago, an omnipotent God created a 13 billions years old Universe containing a 4,5 billions years old planet named Earth and inhabited by an adult man called Adam.
The whole process took Him six 24-hours days.”
I don’t have any empirical evidence against it either.
[/quote]
To answer this Kamui, I am going to copy what I posted on page 8. I think you will understand it perfectly looking at it this way:
[i]Okay, I am not a ‘creationist’, but I want to play a little devil’s advocate in favor of the creationist side…
Supposedly the oldest human fossil known to date is about 200,000 year’s old. That being the case, there is no evidence of anything intelligent and self aware until about 4 century B.C.
So say for instance, you divide creation into 6 periods. It could actually work.
So Day 1: God created heavens and earth. Ok, so this would be the theory of primordial soup, for instance.
Day 2: Let there be light! = Big ass Bang! - Light from darkness, objects separating the from the illumined and the void or unillumined.
Day 3: God separated the heavens from the watery expanse. The watery earth gets an atmosphere due to the ‘firing up’ of the earths magnetic field, which is what allows us to have an atmosphere and viola. We have an atmosphere! It’s magic!
Day 4: Let the water and the heavens gather in to one place and let dry land appear. - No longer the earth is a steamy place covered by cloulds and oceans. The water cools the crust and tectonics cause land to raise out of the water in places and the earth begins to cool from it’s beginnings.
Day 5: Let the earth sprout vegetation. Life, begins. Algee and simple single cell life begins, unto sea vegitaion, to tree plants and bushes…
Day 6: Let the earth bring forth creatures. Then lastly, man in His image. - Animal life begins and flourishes and evolves…Then at the end, Man to rule it all.
Forget about what you think of the Bible for a minute. And look at the order of the events. Whether you consider Genesis to be true or not, the order of event’s from the perspective of Earth dwelling creatures is correct.
The bible did not specify what a “day” was as indeed, in at least the first 2 ‘days’ there was no such thing as a ‘day’. And then from 3 forward what a day technically was varied quite a bit between then and now, if talking earth day. The bible didn’t specify ‘Earth days’ We just automatically jump to that assumption. And since time a space are a function of each other, what constituted a ‘day’ way back may be fractions of a second if we were to observe it from the outside.
While we may have evidences of early man, we have no evidence it’s sentience was beyond that of a dog. The world as we currently know it, is about 6000 years old. That’s not a fossil record perspective, that is what we know as our world, our history as a sophisticated, conscious, morally apt people is only 6000 years old as we know it and there is zero evidence of that beyond 6000 years old.
I would like to have come up with all this stuff myself, but it was actually an article posted by Jewbacca that got me thinking differently about Genesis and reconciling it with was found scientifically.
Genesis was written for early peoples, they don’t know quantum theory, they don’t know about the big bang or stars as being billions of light years away, they know they are here and there is a reason. [/i][/quote]
What do you mean by our history is only 6000 years old? Is there not evidence of older civilizations? Wouldn’t permanent habitation and agriculture count?
[/quote]
Could they read/ write display organized society and recognize right and wrong.[/quote]
If they had permanent homes, grew their food, and domesticated animals I think it is safe to assume that they did. Perhaps not a real written system but, communication was not a problem.
Jiahu symbols: 6600 BC
Catalhuyuk: 7500 BC
Beidha:7200 BC
Byblos
Jericho
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
I don’t see any logical inconsistency in this statement :
“Sometime between 5700 and 10 000 years ago, an omnipotent God created a 13 billions years old Universe containing a 4,5 billions years old planet named Earth and inhabited by an adult man called Adam.
The whole process took Him six 24-hours days.”
I don’t have any empirical evidence against it either.
[/quote]
To answer this Kamui, I am going to copy what I posted on page 8. I think you will understand it perfectly looking at it this way:
[i]Okay, I am not a ‘creationist’, but I want to play a little devil’s advocate in favor of the creationist side…
Supposedly the oldest human fossil known to date is about 200,000 year’s old. That being the case, there is no evidence of anything intelligent and self aware until about 4 century B.C.
So say for instance, you divide creation into 6 periods. It could actually work.
So Day 1: God created heavens and earth. Ok, so this would be the theory of primordial soup, for instance.
Day 2: Let there be light! = Big ass Bang! - Light from darkness, objects separating the from the illumined and the void or unillumined.
Day 3: God separated the heavens from the watery expanse. The watery earth gets an atmosphere due to the ‘firing up’ of the earths magnetic field, which is what allows us to have an atmosphere and viola. We have an atmosphere! It’s magic!
Day 4: Let the water and the heavens gather in to one place and let dry land appear. - No longer the earth is a steamy place covered by cloulds and oceans. The water cools the crust and tectonics cause land to raise out of the water in places and the earth begins to cool from it’s beginnings.
Day 5: Let the earth sprout vegetation. Life, begins. Algee and simple single cell life begins, unto sea vegitaion, to tree plants and bushes…
Day 6: Let the earth bring forth creatures. Then lastly, man in His image. - Animal life begins and flourishes and evolves…Then at the end, Man to rule it all.
Forget about what you think of the Bible for a minute. And look at the order of the events. Whether you consider Genesis to be true or not, the order of event’s from the perspective of Earth dwelling creatures is correct.
The bible did not specify what a “day” was as indeed, in at least the first 2 ‘days’ there was no such thing as a ‘day’. And then from 3 forward what a day technically was varied quite a bit between then and now, if talking earth day. The bible didn’t specify ‘Earth days’ We just automatically jump to that assumption. And since time a space are a function of each other, what constituted a ‘day’ way back may be fractions of a second if we were to observe it from the outside.
While we may have evidences of early man, we have no evidence it’s sentience was beyond that of a dog. The world as we currently know it, is about 6000 years old. That’s not a fossil record perspective, that is what we know as our world, our history as a sophisticated, conscious, morally apt people is only 6000 years old as we know it and there is zero evidence of that beyond 6000 years old.
I would like to have come up with all this stuff myself, but it was actually an article posted by Jewbacca that got me thinking differently about Genesis and reconciling it with was found scientifically.
Genesis was written for early peoples, they don’t know quantum theory, they don’t know about the big bang or stars as being billions of light years away, they know they are here and there is a reason. [/i][/quote]
What do you mean by our history is only 6000 years old? Is there not evidence of older civilizations? Wouldn’t permanent habitation and agriculture count?
[/quote]
Could they read/ write display organized society and recognize right and wrong.[/quote]
I would think so, have you read about �??atalh�?�¶y�?�¼k before?
Edit: Whoa, that word got pretty butchered, its supposed to say Catalhuyuk with some dots and swiggles on some letters.[/quote]
Well, 7500 years isn’t far off the mark. I wasn’t speaking exactly. But my basic point stands, the earth as we know it now to be, is about 6000 years old…About, maybe 7500. That’s not saying the earth itself it 6000 years old, just man as a function of being an intelligent organized functioning society is in that range.
Genesis does NOT claim the earth is 6000 years old, at all. The math comes in from actually from 2 Peter 3:8 that says “But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
The mistake people are making is associating 2 Peter, with firstcreation story in Genesis (there are 2).
Theologically speaking, this is a mistake, for Peter by no means meant people to associate that with Genesis, he was making the point that you cannot predict God’s movements by interpretation, because time to God is not the same as time to us. Indeed, time in another part of the universe is not the same as time to us.
The second point, is if you read my post, is that, ‘day’ is really merely a marker. Cause with first 3 “days” in Genesis, there were no Earth days. What I am saying is the term day is being used as an inappropriate association.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
I don’t see any logical inconsistency in this statement :
“Sometime between 5700 and 10 000 years ago, an omnipotent God created a 13 billions years old Universe containing a 4,5 billions years old planet named Earth and inhabited by an adult man called Adam.
The whole process took Him six 24-hours days.”
I don’t have any empirical evidence against it either.
[/quote]
To answer this Kamui, I am going to copy what I posted on page 8. I think you will understand it perfectly looking at it this way:
[i]Okay, I am not a ‘creationist’, but I want to play a little devil’s advocate in favor of the creationist side…
Supposedly the oldest human fossil known to date is about 200,000 year’s old. That being the case, there is no evidence of anything intelligent and self aware until about 4 century B.C.
So say for instance, you divide creation into 6 periods. It could actually work.
So Day 1: God created heavens and earth. Ok, so this would be the theory of primordial soup, for instance.
Day 2: Let there be light! = Big ass Bang! - Light from darkness, objects separating the from the illumined and the void or unillumined.
Day 3: God separated the heavens from the watery expanse. The watery earth gets an atmosphere due to the ‘firing up’ of the earths magnetic field, which is what allows us to have an atmosphere and viola. We have an atmosphere! It’s magic!
Day 4: Let the water and the heavens gather in to one place and let dry land appear. - No longer the earth is a steamy place covered by cloulds and oceans. The water cools the crust and tectonics cause land to raise out of the water in places and the earth begins to cool from it’s beginnings.
Day 5: Let the earth sprout vegetation. Life, begins. Algee and simple single cell life begins, unto sea vegitaion, to tree plants and bushes…
Day 6: Let the earth bring forth creatures. Then lastly, man in His image. - Animal life begins and flourishes and evolves…Then at the end, Man to rule it all.
Forget about what you think of the Bible for a minute. And look at the order of the events. Whether you consider Genesis to be true or not, the order of event’s from the perspective of Earth dwelling creatures is correct.
The bible did not specify what a “day” was as indeed, in at least the first 2 ‘days’ there was no such thing as a ‘day’. And then from 3 forward what a day technically was varied quite a bit between then and now, if talking earth day. The bible didn’t specify ‘Earth days’ We just automatically jump to that assumption. And since time a space are a function of each other, what constituted a ‘day’ way back may be fractions of a second if we were to observe it from the outside.
While we may have evidences of early man, we have no evidence it’s sentience was beyond that of a dog. The world as we currently know it, is about 6000 years old. That’s not a fossil record perspective, that is what we know as our world, our history as a sophisticated, conscious, morally apt people is only 6000 years old as we know it and there is zero evidence of that beyond 6000 years old.
I would like to have come up with all this stuff myself, but it was actually an article posted by Jewbacca that got me thinking differently about Genesis and reconciling it with was found scientifically.
Genesis was written for early peoples, they don’t know quantum theory, they don’t know about the big bang or stars as being billions of light years away, they know they are here and there is a reason. [/i][/quote]
What do you mean by our history is only 6000 years old? Is there not evidence of older civilizations? Wouldn’t permanent habitation and agriculture count?
[/quote]
Could they read/ write display organized society and recognize right and wrong.[/quote]
I would think so, have you read about �??atalh�??�?�¶y�??�?�¼k before?
Edit: Whoa, that word got pretty butchered, its supposed to say Catalhuyuk with some dots and swiggles on some letters.[/quote]
Well, 7500 years isn’t far off the mark. I wasn’t speaking exactly. But my basic point stands, the earth as we know it now to be, is about 6000 years old…About, maybe 7500. That’s not saying the earth itself it 6000 years old, just man as a function of being an intelligent organized functioning society is in that range.
Genesis does NOT claim the earth is 6000 years old, at all. The math comes in from actually from 2 Peter 3:8 that says “But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
The mistake people are making is associating 2 Peter, with firstcreation story in Genesis (there are 2).
Theologically speaking, this is a mistake, for Peter by no means meant people to associate that with Genesis, he was making the point that you cannot predict God’s movements by interpretation, because time to God is not the same as time to us. Indeed, time in another part of the universe is not the same as time to us.
The second point, is if you read my post, is that, ‘day’ is really merely a marker. Cause with first 3 “days” in Genesis, there were no Earth days. What I am saying is the term day is being used as an inappropriate association. [/quote]
Isn’t 7500 BC closer to 10,000 years.
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
I don’t see any logical inconsistency in this statement :
“Sometime between 5700 and 10 000 years ago, an omnipotent God created a 13 billions years old Universe containing a 4,5 billions years old planet named Earth and inhabited by an adult man called Adam.
The whole process took Him six 24-hours days.”
I don’t have any empirical evidence against it either.
[/quote]
To answer this Kamui, I am going to copy what I posted on page 8. I think you will understand it perfectly looking at it this way:
[i]Okay, I am not a ‘creationist’, but I want to play a little devil’s advocate in favor of the creationist side…
Supposedly the oldest human fossil known to date is about 200,000 year’s old. That being the case, there is no evidence of anything intelligent and self aware until about 4 century B.C.
So say for instance, you divide creation into 6 periods. It could actually work.
So Day 1: God created heavens and earth. Ok, so this would be the theory of primordial soup, for instance.
Day 2: Let there be light! = Big ass Bang! - Light from darkness, objects separating the from the illumined and the void or unillumined.
Day 3: God separated the heavens from the watery expanse. The watery earth gets an atmosphere due to the ‘firing up’ of the earths magnetic field, which is what allows us to have an atmosphere and viola. We have an atmosphere! It’s magic!
Day 4: Let the water and the heavens gather in to one place and let dry land appear. - No longer the earth is a steamy place covered by cloulds and oceans. The water cools the crust and tectonics cause land to raise out of the water in places and the earth begins to cool from it’s beginnings.
Day 5: Let the earth sprout vegetation. Life, begins. Algee and simple single cell life begins, unto sea vegitaion, to tree plants and bushes…
Day 6: Let the earth bring forth creatures. Then lastly, man in His image. - Animal life begins and flourishes and evolves…Then at the end, Man to rule it all.
Forget about what you think of the Bible for a minute. And look at the order of the events. Whether you consider Genesis to be true or not, the order of event’s from the perspective of Earth dwelling creatures is correct.
The bible did not specify what a “day” was as indeed, in at least the first 2 ‘days’ there was no such thing as a ‘day’. And then from 3 forward what a day technically was varied quite a bit between then and now, if talking earth day. The bible didn’t specify ‘Earth days’ We just automatically jump to that assumption. And since time a space are a function of each other, what constituted a ‘day’ way back may be fractions of a second if we were to observe it from the outside.
While we may have evidences of early man, we have no evidence it’s sentience was beyond that of a dog. The world as we currently know it, is about 6000 years old. That’s not a fossil record perspective, that is what we know as our world, our history as a sophisticated, conscious, morally apt people is only 6000 years old as we know it and there is zero evidence of that beyond 6000 years old.
I would like to have come up with all this stuff myself, but it was actually an article posted by Jewbacca that got me thinking differently about Genesis and reconciling it with was found scientifically.
Genesis was written for early peoples, they don’t know quantum theory, they don’t know about the big bang or stars as being billions of light years away, they know they are here and there is a reason. [/i][/quote]
What do you mean by our history is only 6000 years old? Is there not evidence of older civilizations? Wouldn’t permanent habitation and agriculture count?
[/quote]
Could they read/ write display organized society and recognize right and wrong.[/quote]
I would think so, have you read about �??atalh�??�??�?�¶y�??�??�?�¼k before?
Edit: Whoa, that word got pretty butchered, its supposed to say Catalhuyuk with some dots and swiggles on some letters.[/quote]
Well, 7500 years isn’t far off the mark. I wasn’t speaking exactly. But my basic point stands, the earth as we know it now to be, is about 6000 years old…About, maybe 7500. That’s not saying the earth itself it 6000 years old, just man as a function of being an intelligent organized functioning society is in that range.
Genesis does NOT claim the earth is 6000 years old, at all. The math comes in from actually from 2 Peter 3:8 that says “But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
The mistake people are making is associating 2 Peter, with firstcreation story in Genesis (there are 2).
Theologically speaking, this is a mistake, for Peter by no means meant people to associate that with Genesis, he was making the point that you cannot predict God’s movements by interpretation, because time to God is not the same as time to us. Indeed, time in another part of the universe is not the same as time to us.
The second point, is if you read my post, is that, ‘day’ is really merely a marker. Cause with first 3 “days” in Genesis, there were no Earth days. What I am saying is the term day is being used as an inappropriate association. [/quote]
Isn’t 7500 BC closer to 10,000 years.[/quote]
Then to 6000? No. 7500-6000=1500, 10000-7500=2500
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
I don’t see any logical inconsistency in this statement :
“Sometime between 5700 and 10 000 years ago, an omnipotent God created a 13 billions years old Universe containing a 4,5 billions years old planet named Earth and inhabited by an adult man called Adam.
The whole process took Him six 24-hours days.”
I don’t have any empirical evidence against it either.
[/quote]
To answer this Kamui, I am going to copy what I posted on page 8. I think you will understand it perfectly looking at it this way:
[i]Okay, I am not a ‘creationist’, but I want to play a little devil’s advocate in favor of the creationist side…
Supposedly the oldest human fossil known to date is about 200,000 year’s old. That being the case, there is no evidence of anything intelligent and self aware until about 4 century B.C.
So say for instance, you divide creation into 6 periods. It could actually work.
So Day 1: God created heavens and earth. Ok, so this would be the theory of primordial soup, for instance.
Day 2: Let there be light! = Big ass Bang! - Light from darkness, objects separating the from the illumined and the void or unillumined.
Day 3: God separated the heavens from the watery expanse. The watery earth gets an atmosphere due to the ‘firing up’ of the earths magnetic field, which is what allows us to have an atmosphere and viola. We have an atmosphere! It’s magic!
Day 4: Let the water and the heavens gather in to one place and let dry land appear. - No longer the earth is a steamy place covered by cloulds and oceans. The water cools the crust and tectonics cause land to raise out of the water in places and the earth begins to cool from it’s beginnings.
Day 5: Let the earth sprout vegetation. Life, begins. Algee and simple single cell life begins, unto sea vegitaion, to tree plants and bushes…
Day 6: Let the earth bring forth creatures. Then lastly, man in His image. - Animal life begins and flourishes and evolves…Then at the end, Man to rule it all.
Forget about what you think of the Bible for a minute. And look at the order of the events. Whether you consider Genesis to be true or not, the order of event’s from the perspective of Earth dwelling creatures is correct.
The bible did not specify what a “day” was as indeed, in at least the first 2 ‘days’ there was no such thing as a ‘day’. And then from 3 forward what a day technically was varied quite a bit between then and now, if talking earth day. The bible didn’t specify ‘Earth days’ We just automatically jump to that assumption. And since time a space are a function of each other, what constituted a ‘day’ way back may be fractions of a second if we were to observe it from the outside.
While we may have evidences of early man, we have no evidence it’s sentience was beyond that of a dog. The world as we currently know it, is about 6000 years old. That’s not a fossil record perspective, that is what we know as our world, our history as a sophisticated, conscious, morally apt people is only 6000 years old as we know it and there is zero evidence of that beyond 6000 years old.
I would like to have come up with all this stuff myself, but it was actually an article posted by Jewbacca that got me thinking differently about Genesis and reconciling it with was found scientifically.
Genesis was written for early peoples, they don’t know quantum theory, they don’t know about the big bang or stars as being billions of light years away, they know they are here and there is a reason. [/i][/quote]
What do you mean by our history is only 6000 years old? Is there not evidence of older civilizations? Wouldn’t permanent habitation and agriculture count?
[/quote]
Could they read/ write display organized society and recognize right and wrong.[/quote]
I would think so, have you read about �??atalh�??�??�??�??�?�¶y�??�??�??�??�?�¼k before?
Edit: Whoa, that word got pretty butchered, its supposed to say Catalhuyuk with some dots and swiggles on some letters.[/quote]
Well, 7500 years isn’t far off the mark. I wasn’t speaking exactly. But my basic point stands, the earth as we know it now to be, is about 6000 years old…About, maybe 7500. That’s not saying the earth itself it 6000 years old, just man as a function of being an intelligent organized functioning society is in that range.
Genesis does NOT claim the earth is 6000 years old, at all. The math comes in from actually from 2 Peter 3:8 that says “But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
The mistake people are making is associating 2 Peter, with firstcreation story in Genesis (there are 2).
Theologically speaking, this is a mistake, for Peter by no means meant people to associate that with Genesis, he was making the point that you cannot predict God’s movements by interpretation, because time to God is not the same as time to us. Indeed, time in another part of the universe is not the same as time to us.
The second point, is if you read my post, is that, ‘day’ is really merely a marker. Cause with first 3 “days” in Genesis, there were no Earth days. What I am saying is the term day is being used as an inappropriate association. [/quote]
Isn’t 7500 BC closer to 10,000 years.
I see what you are saying and obviously no one can give a definite answer but, what is the point? Why create a world in “6 days” that appears to be older. It seems like “creationists” are just trying to find a way to have it their way and as a result are making things confusing and complicated. If God can do what he pleases why take so long? Could it not have been done in the blink of an eye?
What is the purpose except for he whole work 6 days take the 7th off.[/quote]
And why did he need to rest? Gods get tired?
What I was getting at pat is where do the people from Catalhuyuk or any other neolithic people fit in the biblical account? They’re no where to be found, they weren’t Jewish as Judaism didn’t exist at that point. They’re not descendents of Adam because he didn’t exist yet. Does that make them a lost tribe then? Never mind the indigenous peoples of North and South America. The bible doesn’t even account for people on the same continent.
I think you should rephrase what you wrote as it threw me for a spin and I had to read it several times before I saw that you used the wrong word(if I’m correct).
[quote]But my basic point stands, the earth as we know it now to be, is about 6000 years old…About, maybe 7500. That’s not saying the earth itself it 6000 years old, just man as a function of being an intelligent organized functioning society is in that range.[quote]
I think at “But my basic point stands, the earth as we know it now to be,” you meant to say, man or intelligent man or society and not earth. Anyway, that’s how I’ve interpreted it, let me know if that’s incorrect b/c otherwise it comes off as contradictory.
Anyway, I’m going to have to disagree, to survive in not only the “wild”, relatively speaking, but also during the time of the ice age in certain areas for so long, man must have acquired some skills along the way. Say we go with the low figure of 100000 years that our species, homo sapiens, has been around. That’s over 2000 generations of families struggling to survive, “dying of their teeth” as it’s been put. I’d say we all owe many thanks to our ancestors for their persistence to live. Brings tears to my eyes thinking about what they may have gone through.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
I don’t see any logical inconsistency in this statement :
“Sometime between 5700 and 10 000 years ago, an omnipotent God created a 13 billions years old Universe containing a 4,5 billions years old planet named Earth and inhabited by an adult man called Adam.
The whole process took Him six 24-hours days.”
I don’t have any empirical evidence against it either.
[/quote]
To answer this Kamui, I am going to copy what I posted on page 8. I think you will understand it perfectly looking at it this way:
[i]Okay, I am not a ‘creationist’, but I want to play a little devil’s advocate in favor of the creationist side…
Supposedly the oldest human fossil known to date is about 200,000 year’s old. That being the case, there is no evidence of anything intelligent and self aware until about 4 century B.C.
So say for instance, you divide creation into 6 periods. It could actually work.
So Day 1: God created heavens and earth. Ok, so this would be the theory of primordial soup, for instance.
Day 2: Let there be light! = Big ass Bang! - Light from darkness, objects separating the from the illumined and the void or unillumined.
Day 3: God separated the heavens from the watery expanse. The watery earth gets an atmosphere due to the ‘firing up’ of the earths magnetic field, which is what allows us to have an atmosphere and viola. We have an atmosphere! It’s magic!
Day 4: Let the water and the heavens gather in to one place and let dry land appear. - No longer the earth is a steamy place covered by cloulds and oceans. The water cools the crust and tectonics cause land to raise out of the water in places and the earth begins to cool from it’s beginnings.
Day 5: Let the earth sprout vegetation. Life, begins. Algee and simple single cell life begins, unto sea vegitaion, to tree plants and bushes…
Day 6: Let the earth bring forth creatures. Then lastly, man in His image. - Animal life begins and flourishes and evolves…Then at the end, Man to rule it all.
Forget about what you think of the Bible for a minute. And look at the order of the events. Whether you consider Genesis to be true or not, the order of event’s from the perspective of Earth dwelling creatures is correct.
The bible did not specify what a “day” was as indeed, in at least the first 2 ‘days’ there was no such thing as a ‘day’. And then from 3 forward what a day technically was varied quite a bit between then and now, if talking earth day. The bible didn’t specify ‘Earth days’ We just automatically jump to that assumption. And since time a space are a function of each other, what constituted a ‘day’ way back may be fractions of a second if we were to observe it from the outside.
While we may have evidences of early man, we have no evidence it’s sentience was beyond that of a dog. The world as we currently know it, is about 6000 years old. That’s not a fossil record perspective, that is what we know as our world, our history as a sophisticated, conscious, morally apt people is only 6000 years old as we know it and there is zero evidence of that beyond 6000 years old.
I would like to have come up with all this stuff myself, but it was actually an article posted by Jewbacca that got me thinking differently about Genesis and reconciling it with was found scientifically.
Genesis was written for early peoples, they don’t know quantum theory, they don’t know about the big bang or stars as being billions of light years away, they know they are here and there is a reason. [/i][/quote]
What do you mean by our history is only 6000 years old? Is there not evidence of older civilizations? Wouldn’t permanent habitation and agriculture count?
[/quote]
Could they read/ write display organized society and recognize right and wrong.[/quote]
I would think so, have you read about �??atalh�??�??�??�?�¶y�??�??�??�?�¼k before?
Edit: Whoa, that word got pretty butchered, its supposed to say Catalhuyuk with some dots and swiggles on some letters.[/quote]
Well, 7500 years isn’t far off the mark. I wasn’t speaking exactly. But my basic point stands, the earth as we know it now to be, is about 6000 years old…About, maybe 7500. That’s not saying the earth itself it 6000 years old, just man as a function of being an intelligent organized functioning society is in that range.
Genesis does NOT claim the earth is 6000 years old, at all. The math comes in from actually from 2 Peter 3:8 that says “But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
The mistake people are making is associating 2 Peter, with firstcreation story in Genesis (there are 2).
Theologically speaking, this is a mistake, for Peter by no means meant people to associate that with Genesis, he was making the point that you cannot predict God’s movements by interpretation, because time to God is not the same as time to us. Indeed, time in another part of the universe is not the same as time to us.
The second point, is if you read my post, is that, ‘day’ is really merely a marker. Cause with first 3 “days” in Genesis, there were no Earth days. What I am saying is the term day is being used as an inappropriate association. [/quote]
Isn’t 7500 BC closer to 10,000 years.[/quote]
Then to 6000? No. 7500-6000=1500, 10000-7500=2500
[/quote]
Wouldn’t you add 2012 to 7500 BC to get the total? 7500+2012=9512-1= 9511 years, or am I mistaken?
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
I don’t see any logical inconsistency in this statement :
“Sometime between 5700 and 10 000 years ago, an omnipotent God created a 13 billions years old Universe containing a 4,5 billions years old planet named Earth and inhabited by an adult man called Adam.
The whole process took Him six 24-hours days.”
I don’t have any empirical evidence against it either.
[/quote]
To answer this Kamui, I am going to copy what I posted on page 8. I think you will understand it perfectly looking at it this way:
[i]Okay, I am not a ‘creationist’, but I want to play a little devil’s advocate in favor of the creationist side…
Supposedly the oldest human fossil known to date is about 200,000 year’s old. That being the case, there is no evidence of anything intelligent and self aware until about 4 century B.C.
So say for instance, you divide creation into 6 periods. It could actually work.
So Day 1: God created heavens and earth. Ok, so this would be the theory of primordial soup, for instance.
Day 2: Let there be light! = Big ass Bang! - Light from darkness, objects separating the from the illumined and the void or unillumined.
Day 3: God separated the heavens from the watery expanse. The watery earth gets an atmosphere due to the ‘firing up’ of the earths magnetic field, which is what allows us to have an atmosphere and viola. We have an atmosphere! It’s magic!
Day 4: Let the water and the heavens gather in to one place and let dry land appear. - No longer the earth is a steamy place covered by cloulds and oceans. The water cools the crust and tectonics cause land to raise out of the water in places and the earth begins to cool from it’s beginnings.
Day 5: Let the earth sprout vegetation. Life, begins. Algee and simple single cell life begins, unto sea vegitaion, to tree plants and bushes…
Day 6: Let the earth bring forth creatures. Then lastly, man in His image. - Animal life begins and flourishes and evolves…Then at the end, Man to rule it all.
Forget about what you think of the Bible for a minute. And look at the order of the events. Whether you consider Genesis to be true or not, the order of event’s from the perspective of Earth dwelling creatures is correct.
The bible did not specify what a “day” was as indeed, in at least the first 2 ‘days’ there was no such thing as a ‘day’. And then from 3 forward what a day technically was varied quite a bit between then and now, if talking earth day. The bible didn’t specify ‘Earth days’ We just automatically jump to that assumption. And since time a space are a function of each other, what constituted a ‘day’ way back may be fractions of a second if we were to observe it from the outside.
While we may have evidences of early man, we have no evidence it’s sentience was beyond that of a dog. The world as we currently know it, is about 6000 years old. That’s not a fossil record perspective, that is what we know as our world, our history as a sophisticated, conscious, morally apt people is only 6000 years old as we know it and there is zero evidence of that beyond 6000 years old.
I would like to have come up with all this stuff myself, but it was actually an article posted by Jewbacca that got me thinking differently about Genesis and reconciling it with was found scientifically.
Genesis was written for early peoples, they don’t know quantum theory, they don’t know about the big bang or stars as being billions of light years away, they know they are here and there is a reason. [/i][/quote]
What do you mean by our history is only 6000 years old? Is there not evidence of older civilizations? Wouldn’t permanent habitation and agriculture count?
[/quote]
Could they read/ write display organized society and recognize right and wrong.[/quote]
I would think so, have you read about Catalhuyuk before?
Edit: Whoa, that word got pretty butchered, its supposed to say Catalhuyuk with some dots and swiggles on some letters.[/quote]
Well, 7500 years isn’t far off the mark. I wasn’t speaking exactly. But my basic point stands, the earth as we know it now to be, is about 6000 years old…About, maybe 7500. That’s not saying the earth itself it 6000 years old, just man as a function of being an intelligent organized functioning society is in that range.
Genesis does NOT claim the earth is 6000 years old, at all. The math comes in from actually from 2 Peter 3:8 that says “But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
The mistake people are making is associating 2 Peter, with firstcreation story in Genesis (there are 2).
Theologically speaking, this is a mistake, for Peter by no means meant people to associate that with Genesis, he was making the point that you cannot predict God’s movements by interpretation, because time to God is not the same as time to us. Indeed, time in another part of the universe is not the same as time to us.
The second point, is if you read my post, is that, ‘day’ is really merely a marker. Cause with first 3 “days” in Genesis, there were no Earth days. What I am saying is the term day is being used as an inappropriate association. [/quote]
Isn’t 7500 BC closer to 10,000 years.
I see what you are saying and obviously no one can give a definite answer but, what is the point? Why create a world in “6 days” that appears to be older. It seems like “creationists” are just trying to find a way to have it their way and as a result are making things confusing and complicated. If God can do what he pleases why take so long? Could it not have been done in the blink of an eye?
What is the purpose except for he whole work 6 days take the 7th off.[/quote]
How why did he need to rest?[/quote]
Are you asking about the last sentence? I was referring to peoples/modern work week. Work Mon-Sat then go to church/rest on Sunday.
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Are you asking about the last sentence? I was referring to peoples/modern work week. Work Mon-Sat then go to church/rest on Sunday. [/quote]
No I meant why would God need to take a break, he’s God right? All powerful getting tired ~|~
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
How why did he need to rest?[/quote]
Are you asking about the last sentence? I was referring to peoples/modern work week. Work Mon-Sat then go to church/rest on Sunday. [/quote]
No I meant why would God need to take a break, he’s God right? All powerful getting tired ~|~ [/quote]
Well yeah, that is what I was getting at or thought I was. He should have been able to do it instantly. Why did he need 6 days no matter the length of said days.
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Are you asking about the last sentence? I was referring to peoples/modern work week. Work Mon-Sat then go to church/rest on Sunday. [/quote]
No I meant why would God need to take a break, he’s God right? All powerful getting tired ~|~ [/quote]
Well yeah, that is what I was getting at or thought I was. He should have been able to do it instantly. Why did he need 6 days no matter the length of said days.[/quote]
We’re on the same page
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Well yeah, that is what I was getting at or thought I was. He should have been able to do it instantly. Why did he need 6 days no matter the length of said days.[/quote]
Maybe because for a Creator it wouldn’t have been creative enough for his satisfaction. Perhaps setting natural forces/laws/fundamental particles and energy into motion, which he’d know to a certainty would achieve a specific creation, pleased him more. Maybe. The bible is an extraordinarily limited resource into the mind of God. We (Christians) believe in an omnipresent and omniscient being. So, we hardly think a collection of books, with a last page number, can contain the inner thoughts of an infinite intellect. There a plenty of mysteries to be chewed over. But that’s about as far as it gets. Some answers will have to wait.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Well yeah, that is what I was getting at or thought I was. He should have been able to do it instantly. Why did he need 6 days no matter the length of said days.[/quote]
Maybe because for a Creator it wouldn’t have been creative enough for his satisfaction. Perhaps setting natural forces/laws/fundamental particles and energy into motion, which he’d know to a certainty would achieve a specific creation, pleased him more. Maybe. The bible is an extraordinarily limited resource into the mind of God. We (Christians) believe in an omnipresent and omniscient being. So, we hardly think a collection of books, with a last page number, can contain the inner thoughts of an infinite intellect. There a plenty of mysteries to be chewed over. But that’s about as far as it gets. Some answers will have to wait.
[/quote]
Then why do Christians(and other religions) use their books in such a manner? To know the unknowable.
You’ve just stated that they’re an insufficient method to do so?
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Well yeah, that is what I was getting at or thought I was. He should have been able to do it instantly. Why did he need 6 days no matter the length of said days.[/quote]
Maybe because for a Creator it wouldn’t have been creative enough for his satisfaction. Perhaps setting natural forces/laws/fundamental particles and energy into motion, which he’d know to a certainty would achieve a specific creation, pleased him more. Maybe. The bible is an extraordinarily limited resource into the mind of God. We (Christians) believe in an omnipresent and omniscient being. So, we hardly think a collection of books, with a last page number, can contain the inner thoughts of an infinite intellect. There a plenty of mysteries to be chewed over. But that’s about as far as it gets. Some answers will have to wait.
[/quote]
Then why do Christians(and other religions) use their books in such a manner? To know the unknowable.
You’ve just stated that they’re an insufficient method to do so?[/quote]
Because there is a deposit of faith so as to know some things. Jesus is the Christ. morality (sin and what pleases God). The trinity. And so on.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Matthew, you just got expelled from my class. Screamin’, hollerin’, whining and pouting will do it.
And yes, whether you realize it or not, you were being schooled.
Adios and good luck on your crusade here on this subject.[/quote]
Please point out the schooling push.
Was it when you quoted and deleted what I said in order to have a base to critique from(apologies if that did happen randomly but I’ve never seen it happen, especially in the middle of a quote)?
Or was it your misuse of “Non Sequitur”?
Or maybe when you schooled me in not reading links provided by making it apparent that you don’t even read the links that you post? I suppose you did school me on that.
Or was it the when you associated young people with Headhunter to take away credibility of your opponents while simultaneously indicating that as one ages they must get smarter? I presume Headhunter is the exception to this rule of yours?
Or when you tried to show that the differences found between a mastiff and a chihuahua are indicative that they couldn’t have a common ancestor, despite molecular data(DNA) to the contrary?
Or your refusal to understand why “creation science” isn’t science at all?
I’m sure you could school me very well in some aspects of life push, and I would gladly accept an offer for this at the right time in my life, but with respect to this discussion, you’re fooling yourself.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Because there is a deposit of faith so as to know some things. Jesus is the Christ. morality (sin and what pleases God). The trinity. And so on.
[/quote]
And back again to what about the other great religious texts of the world? They have just as much basis as the bible from my perspective.
I don’t get why it is so difficult for some people to understand that their religion is based more on the geographical location of their birth and not on the “supporting evidence” of their specific faith. This is truly baffling to me.